What is your definition of 'mature' sexual content?

[Mallefunction]

I could think of a few more terrible examples of this for you. First one that comes to mind is Dante's Inferno, I was excited for the game until the demo came out and half of it was boobs making it feel like they were aiming for the 14 year old kids. Another bad example of "mature" sexual content would be Conan, which had naked women chained up everywhere and would zoom in and change the camera angle anytime you got close.

Yeah...I saw one ad for Dante's Inferno and knew it wasn't for me. The Witcher I knew nothing about until I was gifted a copy as a late b-day present. I try to avoid games that pander...but it always happens. I wouldn't mind it as much if it wasn't so one-sided in games because then at least everyone is getting screwed over by marketing...but I guess that's too much to expect from the industry I love most.

 

[cainx10a]

Games like the Witcher are closer to interactive movies than Mass Effect would be, in the sense that, Geralt is his own man. He is not you. Cmdr. Sheppie is actually 'you'. Also, Geralt and Trish have been together for a very long time according to the story, sure, Geralt has some trouble keeping his weiner (unrelately to a certain politician) in his pants, but for the short amount of time you get to mess around with Geralt in his little world, there's enough info shoved up our gamer's dunghole to figure out that, they are a pretty lovey dovey couple. Same as those tali-lovers would love to think they are(wait till she removes her mask and reveal her she-goat face ).

Maybe I am just a male desensitized to sex on TeeVee, too much porn or too much spartacus might be the culprit, but I still think the explicit sex scenes in the witcher is at a respectable level. Not to mention the humor that came along with that one, think 3 bandits talking about a certain tale, while Geralt and his weiner are getting a more practical adventure.

Even so, I am playing as him and interacting in his world. It's not just him who is running the story. And even if I didn't create the character, it's still an RPG. I'm still taking on his role in the story.

And you are missing the point of my rant. It's not that they are HAVING sex, it's the way the sex is shot. The way the scene is done makes it seem separate from the game and it makes me as a woman uncomfortable because of how it pans over her body, as if the game is expecting me to be drooling. It's not done in a tongue-and-cheek manner, it's just pandering.

That's fair enough. Guess despite being 'desensitized' to sex on teevee, I still enjoyed watching Trish magically take off her clothes > . > Guess unlike BioWare's games, the Witcher 2 is 'aimed' at the hetero/male gamers.

I could think of a few more terrible examples of this for you. First one that comes to mind is Dante's Inferno, I was excited for the game until the demo came out and half of it was boobs making it feel like they were aiming for the 14 year old kids. Another bad example of "mature" sexual content would be Conan, which had naked women chained up everywhere and would zoom in and change the camera angle anytime you got close.

No, you didn't! That's the type of world Conan lives in anyway ... if only you knew what the Picts did to the Aquilonians after invading their puny empire. Picts. They have some awesome values. > . >

 

[Mallefunction]

That's fair enough. Guess despite being 'desensitized' to sex on teevee, I still enjoyed watching Trish magically take off her clothes > . > Guess unlike BioWare's games, the Witcher 2 is 'aimed' at the hetero/male gamers.

Like I said, pandering....

I guess I feel that games should be able to offer sex where it's appealing to both genders and respects their intelligence. Silly me to assume so much.

 

[Sariteiya]

How are we defining "Mature"? As in suited for only adult consumption, or as in a level of personal maturity?

At any rate, "Mature" Content in my mind is anything that shows sexual acts or "hints" at them with a sledgehammer. This isn't to say that sex, sexuality and innuendo don't have a place in games, but if we're going by the "Just for adults" definition, then I think it's fair to say that kids aren't always equipt the best to understand and appreciate sexual themes.

If we're talking Mature as in reasonable, measured and thoughtful, then "Mature" content regarding sexuality to me is something like what you find in Mass Effect. Sexual situations that arise naturally out of long term interactions, and are tastefully presented.

This isn't to say that silly T and A and innuendo don't have a place in games. It has a lot to do with context and tone. I'd be disappointed and a bit offended if FemShep walked around in a skimpy bikini, but in something like Bayonetta it makes sense.

Whoo, that was a lot to say.

 

[Callate]

Sex in video games is often treated as a reward. That may be part of the problem. In a game like "The Witcher" that tries to emphasize plot in many ways, that may contribute to the sense of awkwardness; the way things cut away makes it extra clear to the player that this is something tacked on for their titillation rather that a coherent part of the game's whole.

I'm not necessarily against titillation in every case, but it would certainly be a pleasant change of pace if sex could be handled with maturity in even a quarter of the games where sexual attraction comes up.

Quite frankly, while I love the Mass Effect games and have every intention of buying and possibly even pre-ordering ME3, the more I think about their handling of sex the more I think it leaves a lot to be desired. In some ways it's more "action movie" sex (i.e. before the ultimate action sequence, let's show these characters have an intimate bond) than more typical video game sex (reward for completing a task), but it's still not a very convincing portrayal of an intimate relationship. It feels too much like "sex occurs now because these event flags have been tripped", which is probably exactly what it is, really.

If it's possible to go to your significant other's cabin and have sex with them just because, say, they almost died last mission or you've had to leave them behind for several missions and you still want them to know you're thinking about them, you are of course going to have to deal with a certain number of players who will have sex every time they can and then post it on YouTube. But if the medium is going to resolve itself into something that can handle these issues with a modicum of intelligence and taste and overcome the constant fear that some mindless git of a pundit is going to rake them over the coals for it, we're going to have to get past that.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Sex in video games is often treated as a reward. That may be part of the problem.

That's actually one of the things I *do* like about (some) of the sexual content in Witcher 2 - Geralt and Triss are having sex in the context of a pre-existing relationship, not in context of the game's story structure or as some kind of reward. And it's also sort of an issue I have with how Bioware games do it - the formula basically boils down to "solve love interest's emotional issues, receev secks" which I personally find even more obnoxious than "slay dragon, receev secks."

 

[infohippie]

That's fair enough. Guess despite being 'desensitized' to sex on teevee, I still enjoyed watching Trish magically take off her clothes > . > Guess unlike BioWare's games, the Witcher 2 is 'aimed' at the hetero/male gamers.

Like I said, pandering....

I guess I feel that games should be able to offer sex where it's appealing to both genders and respects their intelligence. Silly me to assume so much.

It's hardly pandering - Geralt also spends a lot of time with his shirt off, showing off his muscles, and the sex scene wasn't exactly fanservice or gratuitous. Geralt and Triss are a couple, pretty much - you can choose to develop that in the first game. And you only get the sex scene if Geralt affirms how he feels about Triss - it's not just a meaningless shag, you can see the affection there.
The scene also felt a lot more natural and realistic than Bioware's attempt in Mass Effect.

[sub]Love your avatar, BTW. Is that from Green Eggs and Ham?[/sub]

 

[FalloutJack]

'Mature' sexual content says to me 'not porno'. And believe me, there is a definite line between Mature and Explicit.

 

[Mallefunction]

That's fair enough. Guess despite being 'desensitized' to sex on teevee, I still enjoyed watching Trish magically take off her clothes > . > Guess unlike BioWare's games, the Witcher 2 is 'aimed' at the hetero/male gamers.

Like I said, pandering....

I guess I feel that games should be able to offer sex where it's appealing to both genders and respects their intelligence. Silly me to assume so much.

It's hardly pandering - Geralt also spends a lot of time with his shirt off, showing off his muscles, and the sex scene wasn't exactly fanservice or gratuitous. Geralt and Triss are a couple, pretty much - you can choose to develop that in the first game. And you only get the sex scene if Geralt affirms how he feels about Triss - it's not just a meaningless shag, you can see the affection there.
The scene also felt a lot more natural and realistic than Bioware's attempt in Mass Effect.

[sub]Love your avatar, BTW. Is that from Green Eggs and Ham?[/sub]

It's not the sex itself that I have a problem with. It's the way the camera pans over the scene. It's so jarring because it's so obviously focusing on the money shots when the rest of the game sets it back at least 2 feet from a character in cut scenes. As a female gamer, I feel awkward because that scene is OBVIOUSLY not meant for me to ogle. It makes me feel like I've stumbled into someone's fantasy porno and not a game.

Lawl, no, my avatar is from Fox in Socks. It was my favorite growing up...that and Pancake Pancake by Eric Carle. :3

 

[coates32]

@Mallefunction
I think you summed up what I would defined as "mature" sexual content better than even I could. I personally don't focus on if the said sexual content is handled in a mature matter or as just fan service. I don't think you being a woman has much to do with disliking fan service, there are plenty of guys that don't sexual pandering as well. As a hetero sexual male, I do like fan service, and I'm okay with games and other stuff that have cheesecake and/or beefcake fan service, but I feel very uncomfortable whenever I see two characters getting "intimate", even if the scene is about as explicit as a R-rated movie (yeah I know, it doesn't make any sense).

 

[demotion1]

I felt like sex in the Witcher 2 made sense in the universe of the game. Life is harsh and people are poor. Sex is a good way to feel better in these conditions.

I think it is funny to have issues with sex in a game where hands and heads are being chopped off all the time

 

[infohippie]

It's not the sex itself that I have a problem with. It's the way the camera pans over the scene. It's so jarring because it's so obviously focusing on the money shots when the rest of the game sets it back at least 2 feet from a character in cut scenes. As a female gamer, I feel awkward because that scene is OBVIOUSLY not meant for me to ogle. It makes me feel like I've stumbled into someone's fantasy porno and not a game.

Lawl, no, my avatar is from Fox in Socks. It was my favorite growing up...that and Pancake Pancake by Eric Carle. :3

I can understand that point of view, although it seemed to me the camera was panning over Triss to show off the cool disappearing act her clothes were doing, in contrast to Geralt's awkward fumbling with his clothing. I'm not sure I get why the rest of that scene makes you uncomfortable, if indeed it does - I honestly thought that was one of the best-handled and most tasteful sex scenes in gaming. Next time I play through TW2 (which will probably be very soon) I'll pay attention to everything going on in that scene and see if I can get it. I really don't feel as if the emphasis in it was on "Hey! Boobies!" but I will see if I can understand what you mean about the camera angles and movement.
I do hope you got enjoyment out of the rest of the game, though.

 

[Gigano]

"Mature sexual content" would in my book be anything depicting sex acts.

"Sexual content handled maturely" would be sex acts which come across as a naturally integrated part of the story, a natural course of action for the characters involved to take, and which are set up and directed in accordance with their significance for the story (rathter than being focused on evoking arousal, unless that's the emotion needed to properly immerse the audience in the story at the time).

Much sexual content will be included for commercial reasons, and feel out of place and disconnected from the main storyline; or simply just be porn. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's not hard to abstract from unless you're the puritanical type, or even enjoy as a respite from the overall story of the game.

 

[The Madman]

I don't like em, sex scenes in games that is. I don't like em at all and I'd prefer developers quit trying to force that stuff on me or make it a selling point.

That said I found how it was done in the Witcher 2 to be better than most games, if not one of the best simply because it at least didn't shy away from these themes at the last moment as so many other games tend to do. It also has context within the story! Triss and Geralt have a longstanding relationship after all, it makes sense that they're close to each other. Meanwhile Geralt is also a well established, ahem, ladies man. A medieval fantasy James Bond if you will.

It's also entirely optional, which is a big bonus and something I feel is constantly being overlooked. You don't have to see any of this if you don't want, you'll still get the occasional glimpse of cleavage and mature, sexual overtones but that's a theme throughout and an integral part of the setting as written in the original novels. To not include it would be a greater crime than to include it.

Still for the most part I'm against sex scenes in games because, lets be honest here, they're by and large terribly done. Even the Witcher 2 or Mass Effect are at best tacky HBO standard. At worst most games just come off as incredibly juvenile and silly. I much prefer that if the plot calls for a 'close moment' the screen simply fades to black ala' Baldur's Gate 2 and the like.

Let the developers focus more on creating realistic relationships rather than spending their time and money rendering nude models. Relationships and compelling characters are what make it memorable, the 'sex scenes' themselves are just ideally meant to be a token of said relationship.

 

[Naota_391]

So, I've sort of had this argument with some friends before. It actually made me angry enough to effect my general view of them and we didn't talk for a while (hurhurhur).

I've got nothing against sexy characters. I'm not outraged when I see a girl in a video game with a bunch of curves and cleavage showing. I'm not insulted or angry when I notice that almost every guy in games either has a six pack and a bunch of ads or is perfectly thin with crazy attractive eyes and stylish hair. I do, however, get how this on-going trend of characters that are seemingly built with sexuality being the focus is frustrating.

If it was just a semi-common trend, where you have games that focus on that in an almost b-action film way and then a large amount of games where, though the character is attractive, it's not the focus, then that'd be one thing. One far outweighs the other, though. I need a balance of Bayonetta-like games with a healthy serving of games like Half-Life 2 with a character like Alex, where her body isn't hidden but not ridiculously displayed.

Sex in a game is fine, no matter how silly it is, but it'd be refreshing to see more games treat the topic with respect. I may be one of the few to feel this way, but I do think that this sentiment is becoming more and more common in both players and developers and I'm whole-heartily pleased about it.

 

[Mallefunction]

I felt like sex in the Witcher 2 made sense in the universe of the game. Life is harsh and people are poor. Sex is a good way to feel better in these conditions.

I think it is funny to have issues with sex in a game where hands and heads are being chopped off all the time

That's because the topic at hand is sexual content. I could make an alternate thread for violence, but I wanted to talk about what stood out most to me when playing and the sex scene was MUCH more jarring because of the way the camera acted.

 

[Alucard788]

To me, and most likely just me, I find the inclusion of male nudity, and tasteful depictions of male/male sex to be where I define 'mature'.

While most games do not depict male nudity in any way I do hope that someday it will be included as much as the endless streams of female nudity. it will say. to me, that game developers have finally grown up and become more a mature about there own bodies and feelings. Naked men exist in the real world, however I find it odd that in video games...even in hetro sex scenes' they are able to please a woman with there pants on. Say what you will but to me a man with no shirt is not 'nude'.

Now to my second point...and to that I simply say 'dragon age' (I never played jade empire). To me those game represented a 'waking up' in terms of maturity. I know that most of the characters were Bisexual (even that's a step in the right direction), but for me it was such a nice fantasy world where men would flirt freely with other men and the only fear was a verbal soot down...not a literal one.

Also the sex between Zevran and the male PC was, to me, done with some amazing care that it was actually quite...good. it was like whoever directed the scene knew his stuff, knew what actually went on, and knew hot to not gloss over it all. It made for one hell of a sensual, mature and wonderful scene.

Just my 2 copper.

 

[Callate]

Sex in video games is often treated as a reward. That may be part of the problem.

That's actually one of the things I *do* like about (some) of the sexual content in Witcher 2 - Geralt and Triss are having sex in the context of a pre-existing relationship, not in context of the game's story structure or as some kind of reward.

Interesting to hear. I haven't gotten to play Witcher 2 yet, so I can only comment on the first.