What is your definition of the liberal arts?

[Vault101]

You don't need a degree to be good at them. This is also true with courses but it seems to be more true with LA courses.

Many musicians learned their skills on their own or through experience without any degree.

that is true...if your talking just about art you just need a handle on the technical/kill aspect (and shitloads of practice)

I guess if your looking to get into the industry..formal cred in the area seems like it would help (but never as much a contacts..I imagine especially in hollywood)

also LA courses?

 

[Vault101]

LA = liberal arts, I thought it would be obvious given the topic of coversation

DERP!!!

sorry.....for some reason I thourght you were talking abotu LA the place since thats where all the films people go and...

...yeah don't know where that train of thourght came from

 

[Kaytastrophe]

A waste of time, money and space.

Sorry, it had to be said.

Sorry to hear about your inability to draw, man. Art is hard and not for everyone. :C

Cheers to that I mean just staring at the computer screen right now you can see the results of at least 20 or more peoples design work

Yeah, art and design are prevalent in stuff we do. It's just not critical, which is why it isn't considered as important.

My degree (Civil Engineering) is teaching people how to provide clean water, and buildings that won't fall down. It's a bit more critical than a nice looking website. Which is why I consider it more important. Because with out it, people would, well, die.

OT: To me Liberal Arts is any degree without an obvious practical job market application. Like History, Classical Studies, or Philosophy. Art and English are slightly better, but still not great. Also, before this is brought up, no I don't consider Graphical Design a Liberal Arts major. There are way to many practical applications.

A waste of time, money and space.

Sorry, it had to be said.

Sorry to hear about your inability to draw, man. Art is hard and not for everyone. :C

Cheers to that I mean just staring at the computer screen right now you can see the results of at least 20 or more peoples design work

Yeah, art and design are prevalent in stuff we do. It's just not critical, which is why it isn't considered as important.

My degree (Civil Engineering) is teaching people how to provide clean water, and buildings that won't fall down. It's a bit more critical than a nice looking website. Which is why I consider it more important. Because with out it, people would, well, die.

OT: To me Liberal Arts is any degree without an obvious practical job market application. Like History, Classical Studies, or Philosophy. Art and English are slightly better, but still not great. Also, before this is brought up, no I don't consider Graphical Design a Liberal Arts major. There are way to many practical applications.

I am going to have to politely disagree with your argument that the Liberal Arts do not have a practical application. As a Liberal Arts graduate (a Honours Bachelor in History and Political Science and soon to complete a Master's in history) I would argue that there are extensive possibilities for Liberal Arts students. I think the difference between the two different fields is that when you graduate you will be a civil engineer you will be prepared to accomplish a certain task (which I agree does contribute in a positive way to society); when someone graduates with a Liberal Arts degree though they do not have a specific job which they fit into. Liberal Arts focuses on developing skills: critical thinking, how to develop strong arguments, conduct research, convey information, etc. it falls upon the student to find applications for the skills hey learned.

However, do not assume that there are no practical applications for the Liberal Arts. Journalists- Liberal Arts (English, History)
Politicians- Liberal Arts (History, Political Science, English)
Teachers- Liberal Arts (Pretty much any of them)
Lawyers- Liberal Arts (Philosophy, English, Political Science, History)
Policy Analyst- Liberal Arts (History, Political Science) This is one of the avenues I am trying to pursue in working for department of Defense analyzing current global situations how best to respond to them.
These careers are but some of the many available to Liberal Arts students- not mentioning the obvious ones like artist or actor. I would be hesitant to suggest that Liberal Arts students do not play an important role in society. I think it is just harder to see because graduating with an arts degree does not give you a title in the same way the sciences and engineering do.

 

[Kaytastrophe]

Double post...mulligan.

 

[Kargathia]

I'll trust the dictionary on this definition, but apparently we can add "causes instant flamewar whenever mentioned on tah intarwebs".

 

[bobmus]

subjects that dont tranlate directly into a specific "job"

Anything that's an 'arts' course.

Drama, Art, Music, Film, English Literature. Also media studies.

They've got their place.

peopel think THOSE are useless? seriousy??? do people not fucking know who creates all their entertainment? do people think that shit just materialises out of thin air?

I think people deem thease things "useles" because as I said it eather doesnt transalte to a solid job.....or the industry is a ***** to get into

though the way some people go on you'd think they want everyone around them to be as miserable as they are

If you think this is my opinion, you are mistaken - as I said I think they have their place in society, and the world would be a poorer place without people skilled in these things.
If you were just quoting me for my beautiful summary, please disregard (and I'm flattered).

 

[CAMDAWG]

My degree (Civil Engineering) is teaching people how to provide clean water, and buildings that won't fall down. It's a bit more critical than a nice looking website. Which is why I consider it more important. Because with out it, people would, well, die.

Yes, but without the internet (and entertainment), our lives would not be worth living v:

Without civil engineers you wouldn't have the infrastructure to develop that entertainment.

And without computer scientists to make the computers, we wouldn't have the internet or computers at all.
Without physicists, we would have the knowledge required for the computer scientists to make the computers.
Without mathematicians to develop to framework, the physicists couldn't come up with the knowledge required for the computer scientists to make the computers.

Don't start that ball rolling. It just always ends up with the mathematicians on top. DON'T LET THEM WIN.

That being said, I completely agree. Engineers are far more important than design-type areas. I often have this argument with my brother (who wants to be an architect) over who is more important in building a house, the engineers or the architects. Ultimately, I don't care how pretty it looks, if it can't stand under it's own weight, it's shit.

OT: I believe that liberal arts encompasses pretty much everything considered "academic". People forget that all the sciences arose directly from philosophy, and it wasn't really until Galileo and his stressing of observation (hence the whole "father of modern science" thing) that the two areas really diverged. Now, at least in Australia, we've got Science, and "arts" (not liberal arts. Psychology sometimes falls under a middle category). Liberal arts is considered to be what you do in primary/secondary school: A little bit of everything.

The whole "liberal arts is useless" argument really depends on what kind of area you're going into. In scientific fields, it's fucking useless, because in the current day and age, it takes all your time and effort to keep up with a single area within a field. You can't be a master in more than one. The polymaths are gone. Whereas, if you were to consider a political field, I imagine a little bit of everything would be useful, as you might be assigned any number of different cabinet positions in your career.

 

[malestrithe]

The only useless degrees are the ones that you are not using at all.

I have a bachelors in English and I use the knowledge I gained from it practically every day of my life. My specialization is taking technical jargon from all sciences and translating it into something everyone can use. All of the fancy science in the world is meaningless unless you can explain it to others. That degree is not useless.

My Teaching credential is practically useless. I am not teaching right now, nor do I plan to.

The Futurama writing staff has a lot of Doctorates in the hard Sciences and maths. Instead of using them to teach, do research, or anything of that nature, they chose go to Hollywood and write for a comedy show. Their degrees are useless.

 

[CAMDAWG]

It is. Anyone studying math or science and feeling superior to others about it should receive a good, hard slap in the face and maybe a kick in the nuts. You think you're better than the guy selling Falafel down the street? Well FUCK YOU, you just play with fucking math and shit all day while he makes delicious Falafel and makes people's day better and tastier!

If that's how you feel, I suggest that you turn off your computer, your phone, your mp3 player, any electrical systems you have running, and go find that falafel guy and ask him to give you the ability to connect with people on the other side of the world within seconds, prevent your food from decaying as quickly and making you sick, and keep you warm in the winter and cool in the summer, with his magical chickpeas. Because after all, all of those things either run on fucking math and shit, and/or were created by people who just play with fucking math and shit, who you suggest should be attacked in such a way that would potentially reduce their chances of reproducing.

In the grand scheme of things, what do you consider a greater contribution? Adding to the combined knowledge base of mankind, and potentially laying the groundwork for something amazing for future generations, or selling people falafel? Sure, people like falafel, and maybe I'm biased because I don't actually like chickpeas, but you'd have to have a weird thought process to come up with Falafel-guy over Math-man

 

[CAMDAWG]

I don't think anyone on the Escapist managed to notice that I'm making a joke, ever, in any post of mine. ;_;

Yeah, I thought it might have been, primarily because this is the escapist, and most people are fairly "yay science!" to some extent, but unfortunately I know too many people who do think like this, and didn't want to let it slide. This kind of attitude (when it's genuine) is one of the few things that really, really piss me off.

Anyway, given the circumstances, I apologise wholeheartedly for the immensely condescending and passive-aggressive reply, good sir.

 

[Chemical Alia]

It is. Anyone studying math or science and feeling superior to others about it should receive a good, hard slap in the face and maybe a kick in the nuts. You think you're better than the guy selling Falafel down the street? Well FUCK YOU, you just play with fucking math and shit all day while he makes delicious Falafel and makes people's day better and tastier!

If that's how you feel, I suggest that you turn off your computer, your phone, your mp3 player, any electrical systems you have running, and go find that falafel guy and ask him to give you the ability to connect with people on the other side of the world within seconds, prevent your food from decaying as quickly and making you sick, and keep you warm in the winter and cool in the summer, with his magical chickpeas. Because after all, all of those things either run on fucking math and shit, and/or were created by people who just play with fucking math and shit, who you suggest should be attacked in such a way that would potentially reduce their chances of reproducing.

In the grand scheme of things, what do you consider a greater contribution? Adding to the combined knowledge base of mankind, and potentially laying the groundwork for something amazing for future generations, or selling people falafel? Sure, people like falafel, and maybe I'm biased because I don't actually like chickpeas, but you'd have to have a weird thought process to come up with Falafel-guy over Math-man

Oh, that's right. I keep forgetting that your career isn't about contributing to society with what you're good at and what you love, but is instead a gigantic dick-measuring competition. How silly.

Seriously though, this attitude just encourages an elitist way of thinking, and it's kind of useless. I think I've seen more math/science snobs in threads like these than I have art snobs in undergrad. I'm not sure which of the two are more annoying v:

Also, pretty sure that guy was being sarcastic.

 

[Kevlar Eater]

I don't normally talk to liberal arts majors...

But when I do, I ask for a vente latte.

 

[targren]

Personally: Academic but non-STEM ([Hard] Science/Technology/Engineering/Math) subjects. History, Social Studies/Humanities, Economics, etc...

Especially those which have no objective form of evaluation.

 

[Justice Shades]

Every time one of these threads comes up, I am reminded of how many junior Gradgrinds there are on the escapist. Junior Gradgrinds with pony avatars. What an odd juxtaposition.

 

[punkrocker27]

Hey, that's my academic background that everyone enjoys shitting upon. I've come to learn that the math and science snobs are really up there in rivaling the art snobs.

So they don't think much of your degree so you think it's right to insult them directly?

This. I don't think much of people doing hairdressers course's because I can cut my own hair without training, does that give them a right to insult me?

Hell no is the answer.

And no, i'm not one for the arts.

Your hair's stupid.
Boom, headshot.

Edit: and I make an ass of myself typing, fail.

 

[Dogstile]

Hey, that's my academic background that everyone enjoys shitting upon. I've come to learn that the math and science snobs are really up there in rivaling the art snobs.

So they don't think much of your degree so you think it's right to insult them directly?

This. I don't think much of people doing hairdressers course's because I can cut my own hair without training, does that give them a right to insult me?

Hell no is the answer.

And no, i'm not one for the arts.

Your hair's stupid.
Boom, headshot.

Edit: and I make an ass of myself typing, fail.

If it helps, you made a hell of a pun with headshot there.