What is your take on the justice system in your country?

[Jadak]

Retribution in my opinion.

Some crimes are to heinous to think that they should be rehabbed.

That guy who killed 80+ kids during that shooting spree in a Youth camp in Norway? Does he really need rehab to be released into the world? I also heard somewhere that he apparently can only get up to twenty years for what he did.

Our world isn't a nice place. You can't show compassion in the face of evil. Especially seeing how criminals take advantage of the justice system in America enough as it is.

That's where execution comes in. Some may view it as retribution, I do not. I'm all for rehabilitation, I consider retribution a waste of time, it doesn't serve any better as a deterrent than locking people up to rehabilitate them, prison is prison, the only difference is in how they come out again, might as well aim for having them come out in an improved fashion.

But, if rehabilitation is not considered viable, or the crime so heinous that the public simply will not tolerate them being in society, what's the point in keeping them alive? Additionally, unless completely isolated from the rest of the criminal population, the more extreme variety of dirtbags is not exactly going to be a positive influence on those who might stand a change of rehabilitating. Alternative to execution, there's also the possibility of forced labour. Not necessarily anything of the brutal variety, but if they can be productive to the point where keeping them alive is is more valuable than killing them, go with that.

 

[jimbob123432]

Less rehab, more retribution. Do something wrong? 12 years prison. No trial. Prison now.

12 years for everything, no matter what the crime or circumstance, and no trial to actually determine if they committed a crime?

Yeah, might have some problems there.

I agree. Anyone for a mass murder spree in that magical country?

I live in Canada, a country of rehab and retribution. We have prison terms, but no death penalty; and rehab, but prisoners are not forced to take a lot of it. Personally, I think it works fine. The people who take rehab are viewed as people trying to change their ways while people who don't are more closely watched. Not like you'd know it if you lived here. Christ, a city hits 50 homicides in a year and suddenly "the violence is out-of-control"!

 

[spartan231490]

America has such a high prison population and crime rates for a lot of reasons, and even ignoring that, comparing only two countries is not a good way to evaluate retribution vs rehabilitation.

That said, I prefer retribution. I'm just a blood and fire kind of guy. Don't really care which works better, I think retribution is more "just," for whatever that's worth.

I'm American, btw.

 

[TankCopter]

The Australian system has mostly relied on retribution, although thanks to there to being far too many criminals for the prison system to cope with and the figures concerning recidivism rates (aboriginal prisoners had a recidivism rate of around 75% iirc), they're starting to move into rehabilitation and alternative methods.

I think rehabilitation is more effective in minor offences. Here in WA, we have a 'three strikes' law with home burglary and petty theft, where if you get three convictions in a certain amount of time it's an automatic 1 year jail/juvie sentence. It's a huge waste of time and money, and it does absolutely nothing to prevent people from doing the same thing as soon as they get out.

Jail should only be used to remove people who pose a danger to others, not as a catchment area for people the government doesn't want to deal with.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Slow. That's pretty much it, although in my home country Pakistan there's pretty much one word to describe the justice system. CORRUPT.

I know I'm going to be called out on this, but with regards to the sentencing of Murderers, rapists and pedophiles, I say just shoot em. Those bastards are just going to use up millions of the state's money, just shoot them. I'd say it would be a good deterrent as well. And you wouldn't have to worry about re offenders

The death penalty doesn't serve as that great a deterrent, though.

As you say, it does do a very good job at preventing recidivism, which has that going for it.

 

[Chalacachaca]

I live in Venezuela, you kill somebody you get 30 years of jail time (if you ever get caught). You might as well kill their entire family and broadcast it nationwide since you won't get past 30 years, and there's no capital punishment.
The catch is, that venezuelan jails are so horrible, that being sent to one is a death sentence by itself, no matter how minor your crime was.

 

[hotsauceman]

Someone tell me where this makes sense.
We lock people up, Control every prospect of there life, Give them nothing to do and leanr no skills. WE cook for them, we schedule their free time outside......And we expect people to come out better and ready for a productive life?
I dont think we should give to much slack to criminals but we should give thme some freedom if we dont want them coming back.

 

[triggrhappy94]

Well, I too am from America.
I feel retribution is barbaric and nonintellecual.
And the prosecution of innocent people by trigger happy (don't say anything) prosecuting attorneys is a blight on our so called outstanding justice system.

 

[SmegInThePants]

America

I see the goal of prison to be to keep people out of society who are a danger to it. These are the people who should be in prison and kept there. Murderers, rapists, child molesters, etc.. No rehab, i'd say, just put 'em in prison and never let them out unless of course there's doubt as to their actual guilt or some such.

But quite often a pot user will get a greater jail sentence than a rapist. Our sentencing standards are horrific.

I'm not saying drug use shouldn't be a crime. But i don't think someone caught w/some pot in their possession (assuming that's all they are in trouble for) is the kind of person that needs to be kept away from society. For such people i'd give zero jail time and instead go the rehab route.

Bar fight - misdemeanor assault. Why give jail time? rehab is fine. Is giving even a small jail sentence, say 1 month, going to help society? Now this guy loses his job for not having showed up for a month, and now you have an angry and stressed guy on your hands earning unemployment checks from the government for a year or two. Heck, i can't get unemployment checks if i quit, but i can if i get fired: so i'll just go down to the bar and get in a fight, go to jail for a short time, lose my job as a result, and get free money from the state for a time, and when it runs out i'll just do it all over again, free money for life!

In short, if its not something where you are at least tempted to think life in prison might be appropriate, then you should be thinking rehab instead of prison. And rehab will work a lot better if this person hasn't also lost his ability to care for himself due to prison time. On the other hand, if what they've done is serious enough that it scares you for them to be out and about in society, say a child molester, then why ever let them out?

We're far too harsh in regards to lesser crimes, and thus we have overcrowding problems to the extreme. Yet we are far too lenient on the worst of crimes, and thus we have case after case of the most dangerous kinds of people being let free early only to commit more crimes again.

Its ridiculous that we have such a great percentage of our population in our prison system, embarassing. Not to mention lazy.

 

[Darth_Dude]

Slow. That's pretty much it, although in my home country Pakistan there's pretty much one word to describe the justice system. CORRUPT.

I know I'm going to be called out on this, but with regards to the sentencing of Murderers, rapists and pedophiles, I say just shoot em. Those bastards are just going to use up millions of the state's money, just shoot them. I'd say it would be a good deterrent as well. And you wouldn't have to worry about re offenders

The death penalty doesn't serve as that great a deterrent, though.

As you say, it does do a very good job at preventing recidivism, which has that going for it.

It might not be a great deterrent, but it sure would solve the problem of over-crowding.

 

[MetalMagpie]

I have no proof or done any research but I feel you are punished more for fraud than murder, like life in prison means 5 years with good behavior or something stupid.

Then I think you need to do some research.

Here are the sentencing guidelines for fraud: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/fraud/
And here are the guidelines for murder: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/murder/index.html
(Both from the Crown prosecution Service)

And here is a BBC article that explains the minimum sentences for murder (as of 2004): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3671752.stm

To save you some reading, the absolute maximum prison time someone can get for fraud in the UK is 10 years (as of the 2009 guidelines), with no minimum. The maximum prison sentence for murder is "whole life" (meaning the person dies in prison), and the minimum is 15 years (if they maintain their innocence) and 10 years (if they plead guilty at the first opportunity).

 

[Da Orky Man]

I'm quite happy with the British system. OK, they could give the years they actually dish out, but otherwise, it's good.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

Being from the States, that depends on what area you are talking about.

If we are talking about California, I think it is beyond repair. Their laws there seem to have become toothless, they seems to favor the CRIMINALS over the cops there, and things are just running downhill very fast.

Now, as for where I live (Kansas), there are two jeristicions. Police and Sheriff. Sheriff is rural, and police is city. The police seems to have some problems in my area, but crime is still very low considering it is a collage town. But I live out in the country, under the sheriffs jeristion. Crime. Is. 0%. Why? Because crooks are scared out of thier minds to even come close, thats why. First off, the Sheriffs deputies are armed with heavier firepower than normal, .357 Magnum revolvers instead of 9mm pistols, 12 gauge shotgun slugs instead of buckshot. Mace instead of pepperspray. As if that wasnt bad enough, EVERYONE out here is armed. And we have no ban on assualt weapons, you dont know if the farmer coming to defend himself is packing a Colt .45, 12-guage shotgun, or an AR-15. Heck, you can legally own a full-auto AK-47 if you wanted to (which one of my teachers does). Plus, if you try to harm someone, you pay with you life, either at the end of an enraged farmers gun barrel, or in jail if you get hit with the death sentance. Yes, I am a fan of the death penalty if there is 100% confirmation they are guilty. However, if it is 99.99999999%, than no, not until it hits 100%, period.

So in conlcushion, for where I live: 0% crime rate+heavily armed sheriffs+heavily armed populace+certain death for criminals=happiness with local law system+rest of law system in US=meh.

 

[tzimize]

What is your take on the justice system in your country?

Mainly I speak of Rehabilitation vs Retribution. For example my country, the United States, relies on retribution, as in criminals are punished based on the severity of their crimes. While other countries such as Norway uses rehabilitation, as in helping criminals learn to become good working members of society.

Do you prefer one over the other? Do you think one is better than the other?

It seems like in America we concentrate so much on our own form of justice. As in we take what you took for us. One would believe this would be a good deterrent to stop people from committing crimes, yet America has some of the highest prison rates in the world. This is partially due because of America?s high recidivism rate. Roughly two-thirds of offenders that are released from prison end up returning to prison.

Norway on the other hand rehabilitates, has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, and only one-forth return to prison. They also have no death penalty.

One would think with such a lack of punishment criminals would be less deterred and therefore much more sever crimes would be committed. Indeed we should all remember Anders Behring Breivik. There was an outrage on his sentence of only 21 years. This kind of justice would never happen in America.

But then again over all numbers don?t lie.

What are your thoughts? Feel free to share or add any. I am curious to see what the Escapist community thinks of criminal punishment.

I show my work:

Norway vs America Crime Statistics
http://pcr-consultants.com/2011/07/norway-v-american-criminal-justice-statistics/

Ander?s Sentencing
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/26/norway-shooter-breivik-gets-off-easy-maximum-sentence-is-21-years.html

Dont know if anyone else has corrected you, but afaik Anders B.B. is deemed "crazy" by psychiatrists and as such can be judged to "forvaring" or...er...forced storage is the only way I can translate it even if that makes it sound like he's being put in a box.

People that are found to be a threat to the public can have their sentence renewed infinitely, and as such can be judged to a life in prison or forced healthcare for the rest of his life.

That said, I like my countrys legal system quite well. The only thing I would change with it is to maybe increase the amount of forced labor. Let criminals work to pay off their crimes. If they are not dangerous, maybe skip prison and take a part of their salary until they have paid for the damage they have caused.

 

[CaptainKarma]

Being from the UK I think our justice system kinda sucks balls.

I have no proof or done any research but I feel you are punished more for fraud than murder, like life in prison means 5 years with good behavior or something stupid.

I think it would be much improved if we took out PS1s and internet, built prisons vertically like a block of flats (Americans say "the projects", I think) and give more serious jail times.

Like a murderer should get life, "did he murder at 16?" "Yes." "Then he dies in prison". Unless he murdered his dad who beat and abused him for 16 years, in which case put him in min security and give him counseling or something.

I don't know how race orientated UK prisons are but in America it seems putting black and whites in the same wing is just stupid. Like I see prisons in the middle of the dessert, surrounded by nothing but sand and they have blacks living with whites ... building a wing on the opposite side of the prison and stick one race in it, separate them! Less chance for gangs to kick each others ass!

I know there will be lack of funds 'cos it's always the case but money can always be found.

Stop reading the Daily Mail. You've said you have no proof or research: neither do they.

Life sentences generally mean decades at least. The papers just like to jump on the smallest interpretation they can find like treating "eligible for a parole they will likely not recieve" as "freed after 8 years", or "will be free in 6 months", ignoring the 21 years already served.

In regards to America: The american prison system is a crime against humanity. If any other country treated prisoners the way America does, it would be used as an excuse to invade.

 

[omega 616]

Being from the UK I think our justice system kinda sucks balls.

I have no proof or done any research but I feel you are punished more for fraud than murder, like life in prison means 5 years with good behavior or something stupid.

I think it would be much improved if we took out PS1s and internet, built prisons vertically like a block of flats (Americans say "the projects", I think) and give more serious jail times.

Like a murderer should get life, "did he murder at 16?" "Yes." "Then he dies in prison". Unless he murdered his dad who beat and abused him for 16 years, in which case put him in min security and give him counseling or something.

I don't know how race orientated UK prisons are but in America it seems putting black and whites in the same wing is just stupid. Like I see prisons in the middle of the dessert, surrounded by nothing but sand and they have blacks living with whites ... building a wing on the opposite side of the prison and stick one race in it, separate them! Less chance for gangs to kick each others ass!

I know there will be lack of funds 'cos it's always the case but money can always be found.

Stop reading the Daily Mail. You've said you have no proof or research: neither do they.

Life sentences generally mean decades at least. The papers just like to jump on the smallest interpretation they can find like treating "eligible for a parole they will likely not recieve" as "freed after 8 years", or "will be free in 6 months", ignoring the 21 years already served.

In regards to America: The american prison system is a crime against humanity. If any other country treated prisoners the way America does, it would be used as an excuse to invade.

To be honest I never actively seek out news, I don't watch news unless it's on and I want the next programme and I never buy news papers or pick one up on the bus ... I might read headlines or the little blurb on the front but that's it.

I mostly hear about news from being told about it.

It took me 2 weeks to find out about the 9/11 thing!