What makes a game hardcore?

[endtherapture]

What does make a game hardcore? A lot of people are saying Dark Souls/Dark Souls 2 is hardcore because of a lack of handholding, no maps, no quest markers etc. non linearity etc.?

But you have games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, which have quests, and journals etc. and they have maps and map markers. But they're pretty hardcore. They also have quickload and quicksave which is apparently something that isn't hardcore?

Also games like Ninja Gaiden and DMC are notoriously difficuly but they are very linear games. Then there's Crysis, Far Cry, which were very difficult shooter games but had quest markers telling you where to go next?

So what actually makes a hardcore game?

 

[endtherapture]

Honestly I think its a pretty silly term since its subjective. Its like whats a "casual gamer"? I consider myself casual yet yet I play games like Ninja Gaiden, Elder Scrolls, PC Baldurs Gate games and Icewind Dale plus Planescape Torment. I also play a lot of stuff even older than that like the point and click Sierra games like Kings Quest.

I consider myself casual since I don't play on hard or very hard difficulty levels. Some people will tell you casual gamers are those that only play Wii party type games, kinect, stuff like that.

I consider "hardcore" people that dedicate themselves to being great at every game they play and they play it for vast amounts of hours a day.

Its all pretty subjective and I hate those terms.

I agree. I love playing deep, story based games but at the moment I'd consider myself a "casual" since I don't really play games very often. But I enjoy fairly "hardcore" stuff like modded Skyrim, Baldur's Gate, Crusader Kings 2, Football Manager, Dota 2 and Icewind Dale, when I have time.

However despite playing all of these I simply don't have time to play a "hardcore" MMO or a "hardcore" game like Dark Souls because I can't justify the time spent grinding in Dark Souls and dying too mnuch without making progress.

 

[endtherapture]

I hear that. I tried with Demons Souls last year but put it on hold. I have a lot of other games I'd like to play and spending my time on something that takes dedication like Demons Souls or Dark Souls is a nono for me at the moment. Maybe one day, but not right now.

I might give Guild Wars 2 a shot. I've had it for about 6 months now but haven't been able to play it until recently since my computer didn't have the ram (had to have more than 4gb) and I had a 32 bit operation system as well which that game doesn't like. I'm not much of a MMO guy myself, but I'll get to Guild Wars 2....some day lol.

Guild wars 2 is a different breed of MMO. I did my entire levelling (levels 1-80) completely solo and basically played it like a single player game like Skyrim. The exploration and open world is very good so you can play the game solo and have loads of fun! Plus lack of a subscription fee means you don't feel bad when you're not playing. You really need a guild for high levels.

Re: Dark Souls, I got past Anor Londo and it just really didn't hold my interest for much longer. I couldn't be bothered learning movesets and keep running through bits I'd already done only to keep dying. I simply don't have that kind of time free.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I'd consider games that require a considerable investment from the player to be hardcore, as opposed to casual games that don't really require any investment beyond simply deciding to play. Some games fall in between the two. I don't view either "hardcore" or "casual" as an insult or compliment, just a descriptor.

 

[Ragsnstitches]

What makes a game hardcore?

When the player who interprets it as such has an inflated ego.

Really it's all about commitment on the part of the player base, the games have very little to do with the term itself. If you consider that you can have hardcore pong players or hardcore Pacman players, or hardcore Tetris players, you realise that Hardcore is not relegated to high octane shooters, competitive online multiplayer or sadistically difficult games, as much as some people would love to think (cause Hardcore sounds cool yo!)

Food for thought. My sister is a hardcore gamer... in that she invests a shocking amount of time getting as much out of Facebook games as she can without paying a penny. (she has alt counts, friends hundreds of strangers... all to progress. That is quite a "Hardcore" investment of time, thought and energy.) You can argue that she is being manipulated by a highly addictive genre of games that are designed to pry time or money from it's consumers, but then I ask, how is that any different then the games you play?

 

[Phasmal]

I don't know. It's a distinction we seem to use every day but it isn't easy to define.

I guess any game can be hardcore if you commit to it enough?
Maybe a hardcore game is one that demands a certain degree of commitment from the playerbase?

As much as Dark Souls fans can be obnoxious, I really like that game. It made me clench my teeth and push through it but afterwards I had a nice sense of achievement.

 

[Strain42]

I am editing this post because I realize it was fairly mean spirited and would probably spark a lot of messages in my Quoted inbox that I don't really feel like arguing about.

Carry on and have a nice day.

 

[Shpongled]

What makes a game hardcore?

When the player who interprets it as such has an inflated ego.

Really it's all about commitment on the part of the player base, the games have very little to do with the term itself. If you consider that you can have hardcore pong players or hardcore Pacman players, or hardcore Tetris players, you realise that Hardcore is not relegated to high octane shooters, competitive online multiplayer or sadistically difficult games, as much as some people would love to think (cause Hardcore sounds cool yo!)

Food for thought. My sister is a hardcore gamer... in that she invests a shocking amount of time getting as much out of Facebook games as she can without paying a penny. (she has alt counts, friends hundreds of strangers... all to progress. That is quite a "Hardcore" investment of time, thought and energy.) You can argue that she is being manipulated by a highly addictive genre of games that are designed to pry time or money from it's consumers, but then I ask, how is that any different then the games you play?

First off i agree that the terms "hardcore" and "softcore" are often used by gamers as insults, and that this is silly. But since both words have roots going back way before gaming was even a thing, it's unfair to dismiss their usage in their descriptive senses.

Secondly, while I agree it is important to make the distinction between hardcore players and hardcore games, i don't think it's fair to ignore the disparity in depth and investment required to be successful between different games. It takes all of 3 or 4 seconds to figure out pretty much every thing about Pong. Compared to Dark Souls, in which you'll more than certainly still be finding new tactics, areas, weapons etc even after your 2nd or 3rd playthrough.

It would be really quite disingenuous to ignore the huge disparity between these games. One way we describe these kinds of disparities in everyday language is by describing things as "hardcore" or "softcore". They're just adjectives.

A hardcore gamer playing tetris does not make tetris a hardcore game. Just as a hardcore motorcyclist sitting on your grans honda C70 doesn't make your grans honda c70 a hardcore motorcycle. Games can be hardcore or softcore just as people can be hardcore or softcore, or motorcycles and motorcycle riders, or porn and porn stars.

 

[Robert Marrs]

I would classify a hardcore game as a game that the average turn on your console once a week gamer might not be able to just pick up and play. Any game that requires you to really invest time in learning how to play properly I suppose.

 

[zumbledum]

What does make a game hardcore? A lot of people are saying Dark Souls/Dark Souls 2 is hardcore because of a lack of handholding, no maps, no quest markers etc. non linearity etc.?

But you have games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, which have quests, and journals etc. and they have maps and map markers. But they're pretty hardcore. They also have quickload and quicksave which is apparently something that isn't hardcore?

Also games like Ninja Gaiden and DMC are notoriously difficuly but they are very linear games. Then there's Crysis, Far Cry, which were very difficult shooter games but had quest markers telling you where to go next?

So what actually makes a hardcore game?

When i first heard the term it was about 20 years ago it referred to games that were not just hard but costly in time. Everquest and lineage that sort of thing. over the years its softened a lot i hear people refer to vanilla WoW as hardcore and it makes me chuckle because its a million miles away from what it meant. and nowadays its anything people think of as being very hard i guess. but it used to be about cost , originally Hardcore meant it cost , in time tears and determination. if dark souls had one life perma death then it would of been hardcore.

But the kids nowadays they throw it at any game they think is a bit difficult.

 

[zehydra]

arbitrary favoritism to difficult game mechanics.

 

[Evonisia]

It's a subjective term.

Personally if I would create some kind of qualities of hard core games it would just be involving you more. Hand holding (which would cover things like objective markers) doesn't really diminish a game's coreness, but hardcore games are those in which simply cannot proceed unless you put some effort in. I can blaze through Black Ops II without too much effort because a lot of it is scripted set pieces which have you press a few buttons or fire a few varieties of pant-tightening guns (and I say that as a big fan who'd put that game in his favourite for that year). FarCry, on the other hand, has you alone and everything is dependant on you. Sure sometimes your objective is to stay still and suck your thumb 'till danger goes away but for the most part it's up to you to get through every single part of the game.

Granted I do no protest if somebody would like to poke holes in my idea. Like I said I don't like using the term; this is mostly because most people try to fuse 'hard' (another subjective term) with hardcore which just gets annoying to listen to.

 

[Smooth Operator]

That would always depend on how high you can roll, so I'll say hardcore is any game that requires considerable skill and effort on your end.

So for anyone severely uncoordinated the simplest platformer can be very hardcore, if however you are breezing through it without effort then don't try to bullshit yourself or us for that matter, play however you want just don't try to sell apples as oranges.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Hardcore games are games where you need effort and knowledge to succeed at the tasks. You need to put a significant amount of yourself into the experience and put in real effort.


The distinction serves to signify games where there's no real way to ultimately fail and success comes without much skill involvement. Games like Maddeen or Call of Duty are prime examples of low to none skill requirements for enjoyment while if you suck at something like Dark Souls you'll keep repeatedly dying and not progressing about 7 minutes into the game...opening cinematic included.

 

[Fox12]

Good question. Apparently TLoU, Mass Effect, and anything by Bethesda is now "casual." Meanwhile, Dark Souls is evidently "hardcore," despite the fact that the game play isn't all that advanced. I was always of the opinion that a hardcore game was one that required a certain time sink to complete, but even that doesn't seem accurate anymore. For me a casual game is just one that you can absentmindedly pick up for a few moments at a time (candy crush).

 

[Grace_Omega]

I find the entire concept completely meaningless. "Harcore" is usually just a way to seperate the kinds of games a person happens to like from the kinds of games they don't like.

Games like Madden or Call of Duty are prime examples of low to none skill requirements for enjoyment

Have you ever actually played a Call of Duty game? If you go into a match with no experience you're going to get shot to pieces over and over again. It takes a lot of practice to get good at, just like with any multiplayer shooter. I've never played Madden but I imagine they do in fact involve some skill to actually be good, similar to other sports games.