What makes Dark Souls "good"?

[Sozac]

My friend absolutely loves dark souls so he let me borrow it, and I'm hating it. I also hate when he says, oh it must be "too hard" for you. He used walkthroughs and tells me to use them and I tell him that a game shouldn't need walkthroughs. He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games. I told him those old school games were simple enough that it didn't require the game to blatantly cheat and their mechanics weren't glitchy. I tell him that the story is nonexistent and I don't care about the lore. It keeps going like this and both sides sort of seem too opinionated.

I would like to hear from both sides of the Escapist what they thought of it.

Also, I don't want anyone coming on and saying it was easy, no gloating even if you are l33t or whatever I dont consider myself to be bad at the game either. I've mastered the controls and tactics and in the game I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches, but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

 

[Lost In The Void]

I find it a fun challenge, but I don't use walkthroughs either. The game trains you to exploit if needed, but it isn't always needed, it teaches you that you can't mow through hundreds of enemies so you learn to pick your battles, to parry, to learn different techniques for different enemies. Its story sucks yes, I wish it didn't but with all the dying that happens you'd lose track of the story anyways. For me Dark Souls is an in between games game, I play it when I've worked through my backlog and so far thats worked for me

 

[Mr Somewhere]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

 

[DustyDrB]

Yeah, you shouldn't brag about liking a game because it doesn't hold your hand if you're just gonna use walkthroughs for it anyway.

Well...you shouldn't brag about liking a game or being good at it anyway.

For many who like Demon's Souls, the fun is both in the challenge and that the game rewards careful play and good technique.

 

[Tallim]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

 

[Sozac]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

 

[Tallim]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

 

[Sozac]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Lol you got it right on the money. I might watch a playthrough of the game if someone has one out, just because I wanted to see what I missed, but Anor Londo was practically unplayable and with no drive from the story I just quit.

Edit: That's another thing. There is no playthrough of this game. There ware walkthroughs, video guides, and strategy guides, but no true LPs.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Oh yes, I knew that, was just trying to give a bit of an explination... speaking of...

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

Like everything else in the game, it isn't handed to you. The game tells nothing through cutscenes or the like, it takes an interesting naturalistic approach. Clues are hidden away from everything to specific moments of dialogue with particular characters, descriptions to the environment itself, etc. It's a labyrinth of a game. You have to take your time to piece things together, even then the game does not provide you with all the answers, you have to take the time to explore and dig for the details. You didn't find anything, because perhaps you didn't look for it.

 

[Sozac]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Oh yes, I knew that, was just trying to give a bit of an explination... speaking of...

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

Like everything else in the game, it isn't handed to you. The game tells nothing through cutscenes or the like, it takes an interesting naturalistic approach. Clues are hidden away from everything to specific moments of dialogue with particular characters, descriptions to the environment itself, etc. It's a labyrinth of a game. You have to take your time to piece things together, even then the game does not provide you with all the answers, you have to take the time to explore and dig for the details. You didn't find anything, because perhaps you didn't look for it.

I found different things (like Quelaag's Sister), they just didn't make sense to me. Idk if I had to play the first one to have any context, but I don't understand its places or people, or enemies. Like the white cloud thing sperating doorways at certain points is always a mystery to me.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Oh yes, I knew that, was just trying to give a bit of an explination... speaking of...

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

Like everything else in the game, it isn't handed to you. The game tells nothing through cutscenes or the like, it takes an interesting naturalistic approach. Clues are hidden away from everything to specific moments of dialogue with particular characters, descriptions to the environment itself, etc. It's a labyrinth of a game. You have to take your time to piece things together, even then the game does not provide you with all the answers, you have to take the time to explore and dig for the details. You didn't find anything, because perhaps you didn't look for it.

I found different things (like Quelaag's Sister), they just didn't make sense to me. Idk if I had to play the first one to have any context, but I don't understand its places or people, or enemies. Like the white cloud thing sperating doorways at certain points is always a mystery to me.

Oh, Dark Souls isn't a sequel, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are their own thing. Quelaag and kin, as I recall, that is explained later. She's actually involved or, was involved in one of the major plotlines that run beneath the game's events. But, I'd give the game another shot, even look up a good let's play. There's some cool stuff running underneath. It's worth a look!

 

[Nomanslander]

-
-I hate when he says, oh it must be "too hard" for you.

-He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games.

-I tell him that the story is nonexistent and I don't care about the lore. It keeps going like this and both sides sort of seem too opinionated.

-Also, I don't want anyone coming on and saying it was easy, no gloating even if you are l33t or whatever I dont consider myself to be bad at the game either.

-I've mastered the controls and tactics and in the game I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches, but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

-The game isn't "that hard," it's difficulty is a lot more grueling than it is overwhelming. Or another words, spend enough time fine tuning your skills with the game and you should find yourself having a lot of fun.

-The story is there, and it's a pretty good one too. But don't expect Mass Effect or Skyrim where everything is explained to you from the start, and twice by every NPC just so you didn't miss anything. The story is the experience, and if you want to know more about the world of Dark Souls, you have to go find out for yourself. The game has an esoteric way of telling you bits and pieces and not all that make much sense until you've experienced enough and can put it all together. And honestly, I fucking loved it for being that way. In an age where developers leave hardly any room for mystery and discovery in games, Dark Souls story wise for me was a HUGE welcome.

-NO, the game isn't easy by any meaning of the word, but like I said I didn't believe it was "that hard" either. One of the first thing the game teaches you off the bat when you're confronted with a huge imposing demon 5mins into the game is that you have to be weary. You can't just charge in and think you'll be able to handle yourself. Every time I confronted a new enemy in the game, my first hard wired by the game instinct was to avoid confrontation until I had a clue with what I was dealing with, and with that I was really able to go through a large portion of the game at time without die. Only time I did die was when I messed up, hesitated, or the opposite depending on the encounter. As hard as the game is at times, its also been very fair, and that's another thing that's hard to say about a lot of games today. There have been some games, the so and so called "hold your hand" type that have messed up when the difficulty curve was risen by the devs in order not to bore us, and had resorted to cheap tactics like QTEs and instant death traps.

-If you've made it to Anor Londo, then you're doing really well. But if you've lost interest in the game, that's completely understandable. A game can be very dreary and depressing at times. It's the reason I never really got past the valley of defilement in Demon's Souls and quit. But I've beaten Dark Souls because I enjoyed myself the entire time. So when it comes to quitting, don't think someone like me whose beaten it twice would give you crap for it. Losing interest in games is just something it happens and it has a lot more to do with mood than chose. After valley of defilement in the first game, I just wasn't in the mood to play it anymore.

 

[AJax_21]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Oh yes, I knew that, was just trying to give a bit of an explination... speaking of...

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

Like everything else in the game, it isn't handed to you. The game tells nothing through cutscenes or the like, it takes an interesting naturalistic approach. Clues are hidden away from everything to specific moments of dialogue with particular characters, descriptions to the environment itself, etc. It's a labyrinth of a game. You have to take your time to piece things together, even then the game does not provide you with all the answers, you have to take the time to explore and dig for the details. You didn't find anything, because perhaps you didn't look for it.

I found different things (like Quelaag's Sister), they just didn't make sense to me. Idk if I had to play the first one to have any context, but I don't understand its places or people, or enemies. Like the white cloud thing sperating doorways at certain points is always a mystery to me.

You don't really have to play Demon's Souls, the two games are set on different universes. They just share a lot of similarities in terms of themes and mechanics.

Also, like Demon's Souls, the story is really vague and hard to follow but you'll get a basic understanding of the world through the environments and the NPCs. Reading the item descriptions also helps on fleshing the world and characters. It's a game that basically hates spoon feeding you anything and for that I love it and I definitely understand why people might hate this particular style of games.

 

[Sozac]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Oh yes, I knew that, was just trying to give a bit of an explination... speaking of...

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

Like everything else in the game, it isn't handed to you. The game tells nothing through cutscenes or the like, it takes an interesting naturalistic approach. Clues are hidden away from everything to specific moments of dialogue with particular characters, descriptions to the environment itself, etc. It's a labyrinth of a game. You have to take your time to piece things together, even then the game does not provide you with all the answers, you have to take the time to explore and dig for the details. You didn't find anything, because perhaps you didn't look for it.

I found different things (like Quelaag's Sister), they just didn't make sense to me. Idk if I had to play the first one to have any context, but I don't understand its places or people, or enemies. Like the white cloud thing sperating doorways at certain points is always a mystery to me.

Oh, Dark Souls isn't a sequel, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are their own thing. Quelaag and kin, as I recall, that is explained later. She's actually involved or, was involved in one of the major plotlines that run beneath the game's events. But, I'd give the game another shot, even look up a good let's play. There's some cool stuff running underneath. It's worth a look!

Yeah, I'll probably just watch a Let's play or take a break and if I get back to Firelink I'm going to use that soul dup glitch. The guy in that vid said he started enjoying the game more after it and my situation seems a lot like his.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Oh yes, I knew that, was just trying to give a bit of an explination... speaking of...

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

Like everything else in the game, it isn't handed to you. The game tells nothing through cutscenes or the like, it takes an interesting naturalistic approach. Clues are hidden away from everything to specific moments of dialogue with particular characters, descriptions to the environment itself, etc. It's a labyrinth of a game. You have to take your time to piece things together, even then the game does not provide you with all the answers, you have to take the time to explore and dig for the details. You didn't find anything, because perhaps you didn't look for it.

I found different things (like Quelaag's Sister), they just didn't make sense to me. Idk if I had to play the first one to have any context, but I don't understand its places or people, or enemies. Like the white cloud thing sperating doorways at certain points is always a mystery to me.

Oh, Dark Souls isn't a sequel, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are their own thing. Quelaag and kin, as I recall, that is explained later. She's actually involved or, was involved in one of the major plotlines that run beneath the game's events. But, I'd give the game another shot, even look up a good let's play. There's some cool stuff running underneath. It's worth a look!

Yeah, I'll probably just watch a Let's play or take a break and if I get back to Firelink I'm going to use that soul dup glitch. The guy in that vid said he started enjoying the game more after it and my situation seems a lot like his.

Sure, give it another go if you feel up to it. The game has a habit of putting the player down. Anyway, this was a good conversation, hope you enjoyed it too!

 

[Sozac]

-
-I hate when he says, oh it must be "too hard" for you.

-He tells me the game doesn't hold your hand its like those old school games.

-I tell him that the story is nonexistent and I don't care about the lore. It keeps going like this and both sides sort of seem too opinionated.

-Also, I don't want anyone coming on and saying it was easy, no gloating even if you are l33t or whatever I dont consider myself to be bad at the game either.

-I've mastered the controls and tactics and in the game I just made it past Anor Londo's arrow douches, but I really don't have the motivation to keep going so I'm done and that's not changing.

-The game isn't "that hard," it's difficulty is a lot more grueling than it is overwhelming. Or another words, spend enough time fine tuning your skills with the game and you should find yourself having a lot of fun.

-The story is there, and it's a pretty good one too. But don't expect Mass Effect or Skyrim where everything is explained to you from the start, and twice by every NPC just so you didn't miss anything. The story is the experience, and if you want to know more about the world of Dark Souls, you have to go find out for yourself. The game has an esoteric way of telling you bits and pieces and not all that make much sense until you've experienced enough and can put it all together. And honestly, I fucking loved it for being that way. In an age where developers leave hardly any room for mystery and discovery in games, Dark Souls story wise for me was a HUGE welcome.

-NO, the game isn't easy by any meaning of the word, but like I said I didn't believe it was "that hard" either. One of the first thing the game teaches you off the bat when you're confronted with a huge imposing demon 5mins into the game is that you have to be weary. You can't just charge in and think you'll be able to handle yourself. Every time I confronted a new enemy in the game, my first hard wired by the game instinct was to avoid confrontation until I had a clue with what I was dealing with, and with that I was really able to go through a large portion of the game at time without die. Only time I did die was when I messed up, hesitated, or the opposite depending on the encounter. As hard as the game is at times, its also been very fair, and that's another thing that's hard to say about a lot of games today. There have been some games, the so and so called "hold your hand" type that have messed up when the difficulty curve was risen by the devs in order not to bore us, and had resorted to cheap tactics like QTEs and instant death traps.

-If you've made it to Anor Londo, then you're doing really well. But if you've lost interest in the game, that's completely understandable. A game can be very dreary and depressing at times. It's the reason I never really got past the valley of defilement in Demon's Souls and quit. But I've beaten Dark Souls because I enjoyed myself the entire time. So when it comes to quitting, don't think someone like me whose beaten it twice would give you crap for it. Losing interest in games is just something it happens and it has a lot more to do with mood than chose. After valley of defilement in the first game, I just wasn't in the mood to play it anymore.

I might pick it up after a couple days off especially now that im past the arrows, but these mega-sentinels or whatever they are, are like normal ones +10 min. Setinels and bats are really my main problem with this area. No enemy that isn't a boss cheats like they do, except rock throwing ogres.

 

[Sozac]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Oh yes, I knew that, was just trying to give a bit of an explination... speaking of...

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

Like everything else in the game, it isn't handed to you. The game tells nothing through cutscenes or the like, it takes an interesting naturalistic approach. Clues are hidden away from everything to specific moments of dialogue with particular characters, descriptions to the environment itself, etc. It's a labyrinth of a game. You have to take your time to piece things together, even then the game does not provide you with all the answers, you have to take the time to explore and dig for the details. You didn't find anything, because perhaps you didn't look for it.

I found different things (like Quelaag's Sister), they just didn't make sense to me. Idk if I had to play the first one to have any context, but I don't understand its places or people, or enemies. Like the white cloud thing sperating doorways at certain points is always a mystery to me.

Oh, Dark Souls isn't a sequel, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are their own thing. Quelaag and kin, as I recall, that is explained later. She's actually involved or, was involved in one of the major plotlines that run beneath the game's events. But, I'd give the game another shot, even look up a good let's play. There's some cool stuff running underneath. It's worth a look!

Yeah, I'll probably just watch a Let's play or take a break and if I get back to Firelink I'm going to use that soul dup glitch. The guy in that vid said he started enjoying the game more after it and my situation seems a lot like his.

Sure, give it another go if you feel up to it. The game has a habit of putting the player down. Anyway, this was a good conversation, hope you enjoyed it too!

Yeah, its been a nice thread. It was much better than my friend's endless praise of it.

 

[Mr Somewhere]

I loved Dark Souls, sadly the majority (seemingly) of the community surrounding the game are "tough" guys who play HARD games for MEN.

You shouldn't need to look up a walkthrough. Part of the appeal of Dark Souls is the breadth of the game, it's absolutely filled with secrets, it does have an old world charm to it. It's set up very much like a traditional Metroidvania, there's a great sense of mystery that would be ruined if you were to search walkthroughs. The game really teaches you to learn from your mistakes, observe, so being patience with the game is paramount.

Speaking only of the mechanics, the combat is engrossing, I've play few games with such tight mechanics, there's visceral feel to it, every little movement counts. Every victory feels like you've earned it.

But what I liked most about the game was the sense of atmosphere. It throws you into a seamless world that feels alive. The game doesn't hand you anything, even the events of the plot are buried. It's a grim experience that few games can replicate. There's a genuine sense of ambience, it really is the kind of game that engulfs the player. Though the press and such put an emphasis on the difficulty, there's much more to it, it's a shame really.

The game is an experience, albeit an unrelenting one.

Edit: Also, there's a lot of mention that the "story" or plot is weak. I'd have to disagree, you just need to look in certain places to learn more. It's actually rather clever in places.

I agree here about the story. The story *is* fascinating but it's incredibly tricky to piece together and make coherent. Even when you do have "all" the information it takes some intuition and interpretation to decide what *you* think is happening.

It is, but it really enhances the sense of mystery I find. You could take a totally different view from another player. I love me some ambiguity. It's a unique game, part from Demon's Souls, but I find Demon's Souls and Dark Souls does enough thematically and design wise to have their own individual identity.

I did really like the plot in both, I was just pointing out that a lot of people won't take the time to piece it together and for those people the plot will seem really thin, whereas it is in fact rather complex and deep.

Oh yes, I knew that, was just trying to give a bit of an explination... speaking of...

The only part of the story I can recall after playing it for 3 days is a bunch of guys(that I'm guessing I was supposed to kill later) teamed up to take down dragons then the world plunged into some sort of badness. Then I get freed from undead jail (what is with this trope). Then something about humanity. Then, ring the tower bell. Then, through the power of JOLLY COOPERATION I kill the cheating gargoyle bros. During this, I'm not understanding the enemies, or reason behind anything happening. Then I get back and kill everyone in Firelink on account of them being pricks. Then I go into the deeps, then I get to Blightown with the killer waterwheel. I have to say until this point aside from a few minor and major annoyances I was tolerating and in some cases liking the game. Kingseeker plot hole comes in and tells me I'm going to be king. It was when I got to Anor Londo that none of the game mechanics helped and I just didn't want to play anymore. The sentinals took too long to die, the white ninjas were somewhat fair, the bats hit through shields and autolocked with every attack, and the lock on bowman section really was just stupid. Then, I quit. If I were to guess I was only at Anor Londo to fight some Gwyn guy because when I killed the firekeeper girl she said something about Lord Gwyn.

Like everything else in the game, it isn't handed to you. The game tells nothing through cutscenes or the like, it takes an interesting naturalistic approach. Clues are hidden away from everything to specific moments of dialogue with particular characters, descriptions to the environment itself, etc. It's a labyrinth of a game. You have to take your time to piece things together, even then the game does not provide you with all the answers, you have to take the time to explore and dig for the details. You didn't find anything, because perhaps you didn't look for it.

I found different things (like Quelaag's Sister), they just didn't make sense to me. Idk if I had to play the first one to have any context, but I don't understand its places or people, or enemies. Like the white cloud thing sperating doorways at certain points is always a mystery to me.

Oh, Dark Souls isn't a sequel, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are their own thing. Quelaag and kin, as I recall, that is explained later. She's actually involved or, was involved in one of the major plotlines that run beneath the game's events. But, I'd give the game another shot, even look up a good let's play. There's some cool stuff running underneath. It's worth a look!

Yeah, I'll probably just watch a Let's play or take a break and if I get back to Firelink I'm going to use that soul dup glitch. The guy in that vid said he started enjoying the game more after it and my situation seems a lot like his.

Sure, give it another go if you feel up to it. The game has a habit of putting the player down. Anyway, this was a good conversation, hope you enjoyed it too!

Yeah, its been a nice thread. It was much better than my friend's endless praise of it.

Oh, I could likely praise it for days, likely one of my personal picks for this generation, but that being said, the game has a few rough edges, but what game doesn't?