What makes Halo special. (An argument you have probably never heard)

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awsome117

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Undead Warfare said:
This thread is a giant wall o text thread. In case you didn't notice the giant walls of text. And well I guess its opinion, but I don't think the battles are more personal, I think IW just builds better character than Bungie. Therefor making it harsher when they possibly die or get into a jam. battles to me just seem more epic because of the amount of enemies and friendlies. And I'm talking about friendlies that can actually kill an enemy. I've only really seen UNSC marines finish off a grunt I melee'd and forgot about.
Well to be fair, your post was just a mesh of everything. Anyway, I didn't see any thing "personal" about any of the characters in MW. Also, No one basically died. Well, not unless there was a cutscene that forced them to die. Also, YOUR ALLIES NEVER SEEM TO DIE! I mean seriously. They can take a million bullets, and could call it "a flesh wound". Also, your allies do NOTHING. I'm sorry, but your allies are fucking (sorry for my language, but it seemed appropriate here) useless.

And the size of the battles mean nothing if no one does anything. I remember a lot of the battles focused on my doing all the work, and them just tagging along.
 

w1n5t0n

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You have a good point and I like call of duty and halo. It seems you're being kinda harsh to CoD and forgiving to Halo. In CoD the respawning enemies are one of the most annoying things in campaign and they sometimes spawn behind you, but halos finite number of enemies wouldn't work in CoD. In halo you have shields and health that regenerate over time a lot like CoD but you also have a lot more shields in halo, allowing you to "run and gun" In CoD if you tried to run through a level you would get cut down, you have to have less shields still tho or people would complain about realism, so you have to take cover and pick off enemies to advance. The infinite respawning enemies just make it more fun because you could easily hide somewhere and kill all the enemies and then advance, even on veteran getting a few kills from behind cover is easy. I also don't think halo mechanics are always as good as you say they are for the very reason you say they are good. You say you enjoy learning where enemies are and being able to respawn and know what the battle ahead of you will look like after dying once, halo still forces you into rooms filled with Brutes who will take alternate routes around cover and beat you down easily because there are between 2 and 7 of them all meleeing you at once. Also i feel like i have to point this out- you say that there are expected rules in the halo universe and less- so in the CoD universe, in the beginning of Halo 3 MC survives a fall from 2 MILES UP according to the marine running the diagnostics... then a brute can kill me with 2 melee attacks? id rather let a real bear hit me twice than jump from 2 miles up in real life, so halo bends its own rules sometimes. Re-reading this it sounds kinda like i don't like halo, i like both halo and cod very much and just wanted to point out that they are both flawed enough it really comes down to personal preference.
 

Syl4r

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I'm not going to be very descriptive or anything because i can't be asked tonight, so heres a quick little list.
My pros and cons of halo:
PROS:
:Awesome vehicle stages
:Original storyline (as far as i know, i haven't heard anything like it before)
:Doesn't drag on too long to get boring
:Fun multiplayer - the exception being the occasional 8 year old on voice chat
:Some really good setpieces/cutscenes/scripted events
CONS:
:Highly overrated
:Enemies are hard to take seriously
:AI is predictable
:Not particularly innovative
:ODST is a ripoff

Halo 2 is definitely my favorite in the series, followed by halo 3 and then halo 1. I overall enjoyed the games - but there are many other games i prefer.
 

Frankydee

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I'm sort of neutral on the whole halo thing myself (and my apologies I didn't really read up on your reasons) but I think what overall does it for me with the franchise is not the story, gameplay or graphics.

And I was reminded of it when I was playing Killzone 2 and finding it difficult to enjoy but it's that it's fast paced and doesn't overdo the whole gritty war realism.

It's like playing a newb grunt in Tribes Starsiege without the jetpacks. Mindlessly violent and fast. And yet it's satisfying, and all the more so with all the visual bloom.
 

NeutralMunchHotel

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My thoughts:

Haha, as if every Halo arguement ever hasn't been made...
Oh. It's Pimpeter. This could be serious.
Haha! That OP is far too short to have a properly written arguement!
Oh wait, spoiler box.
Long? Pah! Nothing is too long for the mighty Gilbert Mu-

At this point I was crushed by a wall of text.

OT: I like Halo. However, I don't particularly think the reason you gave was a major one though, and to me there are many other reasons why Halo is/isn't a good game.
 

A.I. Sigma

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pimppeter2 said:
As those of you who are familiar with my writing will know, I love Halo, and I have tried numerous times to explain what makes it such a great game. I have also spent some time highlighting the crippling design faults in other very popular games [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.161187], which prevent me from enjoying them. The more I think about it though, the more Halo seems to share many of these design peculiarities, and so I ask my self, why am I never bothered by them in Halo.

If I start a campaign level in Call of Duty 4 (This applies to most, but not all of them), I immediately feel annoyed that the game has thrown my into a situation which doesn?t seem to make sense to me. I don?t know what my goals are, and I don?t know what parameters to expect things to go by. Let me explain. As far the goals are concerned, since it?s a pretty standard FPS, I expect my goal to have something to do with killing the enemies shooting at me, but there are a number of possibilities within that. Am I supposed to kill them all, assuming there are a finite number of them? Or are they respawning, in which case, how am I supposed to stop them respawning? This second question is where the problem of the games parameters is introduced. Supposing one parameter is clear: that enemies will always respawn, until you do x to stop them (in reality, the game offers no such consistency, but let?s supposes for now that it did). Firstly, how do I stop them? Often there is an invisible boundary which, when crossed by the player, triggers the enemies to stop spawning.

It goes without saying, that this is a very unrealistic and unintuitive phenomenon. We can guess that it is designed to force the play to approximate a familiar battle scenario where one side has to constantly push up for one reason or another, rather than simply sitting back and picking off all of the enemies until the path is clear. Without delving into the limitations of this system, let?s except that this could potentially lead to some fairly interesting gameplay scenarios.

The important thing here is that it is very much a computer game device, and for it to achieve the effect I imagine it desires, the system around it must be crafted with that in mind. This means you can?t just craft the rest of the game to communicate to the player based on the game world acting like the real world, when you have this core which is so unlike the real world. When such a device as respawning enemies is introduced, I expect videogame parameters along side it. If a game says, push forward against respawning enemies to push their spawn points back, I say, ?fine, but what are the parameters. Can I get blown up at any moment by artillery from a few miles away which I could do nothing to avoid, as in real life? Surely not.? And indeed the game says, ?No, of course not, rest assured that as you are pushing up, employing good tactics, running from cover to cover, you will not be randomly blown up through no fault of your own.?

?Ok good?, I say, ?now what can I expect of these invisible barriers? If barrier x stops enemies spawning from spawn point X, then surely barrier x must come a Suitable distance before spawn point X, such that I, the player, can get to it knowing that I am not running right into the incoming waves of enemies. I?m not saying that such a game would be bad, that?s a different matter, but for me to make informed decisions on how to play, I must know that one or another sort of parameter exists on this subject?? Alas, dear reader, I?m afraid that no such parameter exists in Call of Duty 4. Often the spawn points on the enemies front will be pushed back when you get within, say, 10 meters of them, but sometimes you can get within a couple of meters of the room from which they are conspicuously waltzing. How can the player make an informed decision now on what strategies to employ when they don?t know what parameters they are dealing with?

?Ok?, I say, ?despite this major blunder, the majority of the game may still be playable. At least you were apt enough not to throw in random artillery strikes. Now what other parameters can I expect to shape my strategies around? Can I expect to have always 1 clear enemy front to attack? Or if there are to be more, can I expect them to be clearly stated? Surely if the game revolves around me pushing up against enemy spawn points, then I must know roughly where these points are that I am to push against??

?No?, says the game, ?Spawn points may pop up at any time from any position. Poor player, you might as well do away with any hope of strategy, for while you may think you are doing the right thing to deal with the enemy in front of you, this may turn out to have the adverse effect when enemies start spawning from your left and your right.

?What am I to do then?? I ask. ?Am I to push against each one of these spawn points one after the other? How can I even plan this when I don?t know where the respective invisible boundaries are for each, nor whether you might decide to throw in another spawn point at any time.?

Don?t get me wrong, reader; I am not particularly complaining that I find the game difficult; rather I tend to push through it rather quickly. This, however, is not down to my skill (aside from the moment to moment skill of aiming accurately and ducking out of fire when a few shots come my way). On the contrary, I feel I am just clumsily stumbling towards victory with a few deaths on the way, without any real understanding of why. This is because the game rarely gives me the information I need on which to base effective strategies.

Of course the reality is much worse still, because not even the premise of pushing up against spawn points is consistent. Sometimes, believe it or not, the enemies do not respawn, but the player is given no indication as to when. Once again, he cannot know what strategies to employ: should he push up, assuming the enemy is respawning, or stand back and pick them off, assuming there is a finite supply?

Now let us look at Halo. Obviously there is no spawning in Halo, most enemies exist in the level from the beginning, and those who make their entrance in dropships, from pipes and such, come in a limited supply, so every one that the play kills, is one less they have to worry about. If we look more closely however, we might think that similar problems of a lack of information might exist. If you enter one of Halo?s many large battle scenarios for the first time, you don?t know where the snipers are, you don?t know where all of the pockets of ground troops are, or which are going to jump into vehicles, you don?t know where the reinforcements are going to come from until you see the drop ship approaching, which may be too late. Say, for example, that you are in one of these battles, and you find yourself near a building with your shield almost down and some elites firing their plasma rifles in your general direction. Do you go into the building? You don?t know, is the answer. You don?t know whether or not there are a couple of grunts waiting to finish you off the moment you step in. So there you have a lack of information resulting in the player not being able to make an informed decision. So why do I restart with nothing but glee after being finished off by the grenade which happened to rebound off the explosion of another from a good 20 yards off, which flew, unexpectedly, into the doorway just as I entered?

When that happens, instead of being frustrated at dying, perhaps without even making a mistake, I am simply grateful for the rock solid laws which govern the Halo universe, and appreciative of the scenarios which develop naturally from them. Here we have a scenario which is perfectly understandable by the player: ?you are in a battle, contained in this single open space, where most objects are governed by a certain consistent set of physics. You are up against a finite number of enemies, you do not know where all of them are, or what they are going to do, since all of them are governed by dynamic AI, but use your wits soldier, to kill them all, before restocking and advancing to the next arena.?

But what?s so different in COD4? Could we not equally say, ?You are in a battle, contained in this single open space, where most objects are governed by a certain consistent set of physics. Spawn points will pop up in various locations and it is your job to get near enough to the spawn points for them to deactivate. Once you have deactivated all of the spawn points, you may advance to the next battle. No, the enemy AI is not very dynamic, but you can deal with them nevertheless.?? Indeed, I see why not, and when I imagine such a game, it seems like quite an enticing proposition, if in need of a little adjustment. So why can?t I stand COD4?s single player mode? Perhaps I have been underestimating the impact of the narrative and style of both of these games. Undoubtedly, Halo has terrific core mechanics, which allow for far more depth and mastery then those in COD4. Also, there is undoubtedly room for improvement in the structure I identified earlier, with the spawn points randomly popping up, and the invisible boundaries placed with no consistency. But I don?t think that these are what make me put the game down in disgust after every short play session. I fancy it may be the narrative which makes me refuse to engage with the gameworld. It is made very clear that you are simply one soldier in a unit, and not a high up one at that. Also just from our general impression of the sas from TV and what not, we have an idea of a very tight, coordinated team, who know exactly what they?re doing and why they?re doing it (I don?t mean in terms of the politics). So when I?m dropped into a battle with a load of superiors who seem to know what they?re doing, I do not expect to be left to my own devices in leading them against randomly occurring spawn points. When we?re fighting through the streets in Iraq, and we?re being shot at from the 1st floor of an overlooking building, I do not expect to go alone, and of my own appointment, into the building full of enemies, and take them all out as they spawn from the bloody bathroom. When I?m a genetically improved super soldier named Mastercheif, however, I do.

As I?m writing, though, I don?t believe it, that something seemingly so trivial could have such an impact on the game. What do you think?


Please keep on the topic that I have presented. I don't want to hear the average Halo hating comments. Please read this and adjust your views (hating or loveing the game) to the discussion I have brought. If it is too long for you to read, just skip to the last paragraph, or not at all.

-Thanks, Pimppeter2
Very nice!

I suppose the reason I like Halo is because I am, by definition, not an experienced FPS gamer. RPG is my first love, but after playing Mass Effect, I decided I wanted to expand. I chose Halo 3, and I loved it.

For newbs like myself, it is the perfect game for learning how to play FPS. The difficulty settings are well adjusted, with Easy being incredibly forgiving, and Legendary being a *****. The enemies, on both single and multiplayer, stand out from the surroundings, making them easier to shoot. Ammo is available in very generous amounts, and the sniper rifle is steady to aim. The levels are nice and varying, and yet you pretty much always know where to go.

Now, compare it to COD: Modern Warfare. I bought that after I played Halo 3 and had improved.

Christ.

For experienced FPS gamers, it's much more...suitable. For people like me, though...yeah, I get my ass kicked a lot. XD

It's good; don't get me wrong, but if I had started playing FPS on COD, I would have abandoned the genre immediately. The difficulty is way ahead of Halo's, even on easy. Enemies, as the article pointed out, keep respawning, which was confusing for me because I was a newb. Enemies blend in with the surroundings, making them difficult to spot, and usually I had to double take because I wasn't sure which team they were on, often resulting in me dying. Multiplayer on COD I just cannot do.

Then there is the guns. On Halo, you had basics, and you pretty much knew what each gun was capable of. On COD, there were so many similar guns, that I stopped caring what I picked up and just used it. As for the sniper rifle in COD...the moving of it when he breathes just annoys me. If I wanted realism when shooting a gun, I'd join the army.

Perhaps it is the tolerance of a game that makes people like and dislike Halo. Some want realism, which makes COD good for them. Some just want playability and the feeling of being an ultimate badass with a gun that Halo brings, despite your skill, like me.

^^
 

Skeleton Jelly

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awsome117 said:
Undead Warfare said:
This thread is a giant wall o text thread. In case you didn't notice the giant walls of text. And well I guess its opinion, but I don't think the battles are more personal, I think IW just builds better character than Bungie. Therefor making it harsher when they possibly die or get into a jam. battles to me just seem more epic because of the amount of enemies and friendlies. And I'm talking about friendlies that can actually kill an enemy. I've only really seen UNSC marines finish off a grunt I melee'd and forgot about.
Well to be fair, your post was just a mesh of everything. Anyway, I didn't see any thing "personal" about any of the characters in MW. Also, No one basically died. Well, not unless there was a cutscene that forced them to die. Also, YOUR ALLIES NEVER SEEM TO DIE! I mean seriously. They can take a million bullets, and could call it "a flesh wound". Also, your allies do NOTHING. I'm sorry, but your allies are fucking (sorry for my language, but it seemed appropriate here) useless.

And the size of the battles mean nothing if no one does anything. I remember a lot of the battles focused on my doing all the work, and them just tagging along.
Well I was making one point. I apologize if I jumped around too much. But umm ever fight with the Arbiter? He'll die yeah, but he'll just get right back up. And well I'm not saying the AI was popping heads left and right, they just got much more kills the any UNSC marine ever could in their entire life span.
 

awsome117

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Undead Warfare said:
Well I was making one point. I apologize if I jumped around too much. But umm ever fight with the Arbiter? He'll die yeah, but he'll just get right back up. And well I'm not saying the AI was popping heads left and right, they just got much more kills the any UNSC marine ever could in their entire life span.
Well, Same with any other MAIN characters. I mean, have you noticed that your team mates will NEVER die? You could shoot them and they just won't die, and I think they get back up (it's been awhile since I played, so I can't be sure).

And not really, I say they're about the same. Except when they die, a few more would just replaced them, so you could never know who died or not.
 

irishstormtrooper

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This thread isn't really "What makes Halo Special", but more of "What makes Halo different from CoD". I can name quite a large amount of shooters that exist where there are no infinite spawn points. In fact, the only game I know of that has the aforementioned infinite spawn points is CoD4 and MW2. So, in this sense, saying Halo is special is like saying Fidel Castro is amazing because he wasn't Hitler. Yes, Halo has no infinitely spawning baddies, and Castro is in fact not Hitler, but that doesn't mean that Halo is special and/or Castro is amazing.
 

Pimppeter2

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irishstormtrooper said:
This thread isn't really "What makes Halo Special", but more of "What makes Halo different from CoD". I can name quite a large amount of shooters that exist where there are no infinite spawn points. In fact, the only game I know of that has the aforementioned infinite spawn points is CoD4 and MW2. So, in this sense, saying Halo is special is like saying Saddam Hussein is amazing because he wasn't Hitler. Yes, Halo has no infinitely spawning baddies, and Castro is in fact not Hitler, but that doesn't mean that Halo is special and/or Castro is amazing.
Hehe, that made me laugh.

To be honest, I don't play many shooters, so its just kind of What made Halo special to me.
 

MR T3D

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Undead Warfare said:
awsome117 said:
Undead Warfare said:
This thread is a giant wall o text thread. In case you didn't notice the giant walls of text. And well I guess its opinion, but I don't think the battles are more personal, I think IW just builds better character than Bungie. Therefor making it harsher when they possibly die or get into a jam. battles to me just seem more epic because of the amount of enemies and friendlies. And I'm talking about friendlies that can actually kill an enemy. I've only really seen UNSC marines finish off a grunt I melee'd and forgot about.
Well to be fair, your post was just a mesh of everything. Anyway, I didn't see any thing "personal" about any of the characters in MW. Also, No one basically died. Well, not unless there was a cutscene that forced them to die. Also, YOUR ALLIES NEVER SEEM TO DIE! I mean seriously. They can take a million bullets, and could call it "a flesh wound". Also, your allies do NOTHING. I'm sorry, but your allies are fucking (sorry for my language, but it seemed appropriate here) useless.

And the size of the battles mean nothing if no one does anything. I remember a lot of the battles focused on my doing all the work, and them just tagging along.
Well I was making one point. I apologize if I jumped around too much. But umm ever fight with the Arbiter? He'll die yeah, but he'll just get right back up. And well I'm not saying the AI was popping heads left and right, they just got much more kills the any UNSC marine ever could in their entire life span.
but i found in my experience in H3, the arbiter was USEFUL as an ally, even AI controller.
with the exception of the ship mission in CoD4, and an lights out house clearance (both of which were very scripted, though..)