What makes Superman, Superman?
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Wasn't the Black character Man of Steel called... Steel.
The guy that helped SAVE (prolong) Superman's life in the fight against Doomsday?
Didn't he fight for the ideals that Superman held in such high esteem?
Why not make THAT movie?
Wasn't the Black character Man of Steel called... Steel.
The guy that helped SAVE (prolong) Superman's life in the fight against Doomsday?
Didn't he fight for the ideals that Superman held in such high esteem?
Why not make THAT movie?
I probably should have taken a little more time in phrasing my opinion - I meant that people project those set of ideals onto Superman, rather than whatever the creators original intentions were (given this was in regards to why the audience wouldn't accept a black Superman, rather than creators). I generally try to avoid assuming a creators intention unless it's explicitly stated. Sorry about that!wizzy555 said:
Considering his powers are based off of getting as much sun as possible, I'm surprised he ISN'T black, or at least extreeeeemely tanned.
the Ultimate problem with changing the established race of any character is that typically its handled as well as a blowjob in church during high mass, they have to associate all known stereotypes of that new race to the character and as such fuck up the established cannon of them to the point of nonsense unless the change over is handled by somebody at least vaguely competent
Too soonVoidWanderer said:
[http://s846.photobucket.com/user/micky_vey/media/steel-armor_zps2f9cc8ca.jpg.html]
I'd be happy enough for an alternate Earth Supes to be black but just making a character black for the sake of it just seems pointless, especially one as Iconic as Superman, Human torch cannot touch Superman in that regard.
Say...
Who here has seen, I think it was the first episode of Boston Legal, namely the case about the musical 'Annie'...
Just curious...
*Walks away softly singing 'Tomorrow is only a day away'*
Who here has seen, I think it was the first episode of Boston Legal, namely the case about the musical 'Annie'...
Just curious...
*Walks away softly singing 'Tomorrow is only a day away'*
A childhood where he is trained extensively in the art of "fitting in", told that if he outshines anyone he will be attacked, and generally told that he is already an outcast so his only hope is to never, ever remind those around him of how he is different from them by being as much like them as he can through his dress and mannerisms.
Is superman not black already?
Is superman not black already?
Marvel did something similar in the 90s (I know, I know) in the Thunderbolts. In order to change his appearance after a jailbreak, M.A.C.H. 1 (the Beetle in a new suit) had his skin darkened to make him appear to be african american. I thought it was terrible at first which later went to horrifying when his girlfriend broke up with him because he was now "black" and people started treating him differently, even those who knew him before. I know they were trying to to do a "walk a mile in another man's shoes" story about racism, but it was so bungled it came out as just plain racist. Never mind that it was Songbird who freaked out over being with a black man, a character I liked a lot before that arc.
All that aside, I'd have no problem with a black, asian or even clearly non-human superman provided the stories didn't just become about his race and people's reaction to same. The X-Men do the "We're superheroes despite being persecuted minorities" thing well enough.
All that aside, I'd have no problem with a black, asian or even clearly non-human superman provided the stories didn't just become about his race and people's reaction to same. The X-Men do the "We're superheroes despite being persecuted minorities" thing well enough.
You want a 'Black' Superman? Ok...
How about an alien in an escape pod, that crash landed on Earth in a cotton field in the American South. The pod genetically modified him to resemble the first life form that approached the pod, which happened to be an African slave. Now, among his normal Superman powers (flight, strength, endurance, etc.), he also doesn't age past adulthood, which explains why he looks the same today as he did ~150 years ago. And, to keep him in line with Superman's personalty, let's make him a corporate lawyer and a Republican who holds conservative views on social and economic issues.
How about an alien in an escape pod, that crash landed on Earth in a cotton field in the American South. The pod genetically modified him to resemble the first life form that approached the pod, which happened to be an African slave. Now, among his normal Superman powers (flight, strength, endurance, etc.), he also doesn't age past adulthood, which explains why he looks the same today as he did ~150 years ago. And, to keep him in line with Superman's personalty, let's make him a corporate lawyer and a Republican who holds conservative views on social and economic issues.
The fundamental core of Superman's character is home vs. heritage, accepting who he is in a world so much weaker than he is. Superman is a god among men, who cannot be directly challenge in terms of brute strength by any mortal, so they must exploit weaknesses.
It does not tie to race, it is just social standards. In at least one alternate universe (which was best described as "racial diversity the universe") Superman WAS black. However, being a cultural icon has made his race kind of fixed, no matter which way you slice it.
It does not tie to race, it is just social standards. In at least one alternate universe (which was best described as "racial diversity the universe") Superman WAS black. However, being a cultural icon has made his race kind of fixed, no matter which way you slice it.
While it is true that Superman's race doesn't really matter, there are a few things about trying to make Superman black that need to be considered.
First of all, it is really important that Clark Kent believes that Martha and Jonathon Kent are his real, biological parents, so they would have to be black too (making them the only black farmers in all of Kansas?) I mean I guess you could try and make it so that he thinks that he was just adopted but wouldn't that just raise questions? like would the local orphanage not wonder where the hell he came from since it is a really small town? And if they just say that the Kents took in some runaway kid it would ruin the fact that they took Clark in as a baby. It is important that Superman was a newborn when he got taken in, the fact that he had a 100% earth-raised life and never even saw his home planet is kind of the driving force behind his life. And that is what so many filmakers seem to forget, that Clark Kent is the real person and Kal-El/Superman is the secret identity that he has created to be able to use his gifts to help people, but if they portrayed it as him being older than an infant when he was adopted then suddenly that gets reversed, and the character becomes kind of ruined (seriously, if you want to make a story about how an alien child lands on earth and is then raised by earthlings but is still old enough to have values/memories of his alien life to contrast with his earth life, why not just make an Icon movie? Why would you kill Superman when you have the story you want to tell right there already?)
The other thing is that Superman is just so iconic that changing a single part of his design (does no one else remember how big a deal it was when DC tried to take away his little red pants?) would be like making it so that Mickey Mouse has triangular ears, people just wouldn't like it.
Finally, as many others have mentioned, there are already 3 big name DC heroes who already sort of are the "Black Superman" Martian Manhunter (as John Jones, not J'onn J'onzz), Icon, and Steel. Sure, none of them are as iconic as Superman (who is?) but they all got considerable mention both within the comics and through DC's other media (cartoons especially).
First of all, it is really important that Clark Kent believes that Martha and Jonathon Kent are his real, biological parents, so they would have to be black too (making them the only black farmers in all of Kansas?) I mean I guess you could try and make it so that he thinks that he was just adopted but wouldn't that just raise questions? like would the local orphanage not wonder where the hell he came from since it is a really small town? And if they just say that the Kents took in some runaway kid it would ruin the fact that they took Clark in as a baby. It is important that Superman was a newborn when he got taken in, the fact that he had a 100% earth-raised life and never even saw his home planet is kind of the driving force behind his life. And that is what so many filmakers seem to forget, that Clark Kent is the real person and Kal-El/Superman is the secret identity that he has created to be able to use his gifts to help people, but if they portrayed it as him being older than an infant when he was adopted then suddenly that gets reversed, and the character becomes kind of ruined (seriously, if you want to make a story about how an alien child lands on earth and is then raised by earthlings but is still old enough to have values/memories of his alien life to contrast with his earth life, why not just make an Icon movie? Why would you kill Superman when you have the story you want to tell right there already?)
The other thing is that Superman is just so iconic that changing a single part of his design (does no one else remember how big a deal it was when DC tried to take away his little red pants?) would be like making it so that Mickey Mouse has triangular ears, people just wouldn't like it.
Finally, as many others have mentioned, there are already 3 big name DC heroes who already sort of are the "Black Superman" Martian Manhunter (as John Jones, not J'onn J'onzz), Icon, and Steel. Sure, none of them are as iconic as Superman (who is?) but they all got considerable mention both within the comics and through DC's other media (cartoons especially).
As I recall, there was an alternate reality Superman who was black. Might still be one, but I don't keep track of the New 52 anymore.
I don't see why anyone would feel the need to make Superman black unless they were trying to make a statement of some kind. Once you do something like that, it's all anyone is ever going to talk about, detracting from the story itself. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but it'd certainly strike me as an odd decision.
I don't see why anyone would feel the need to make Superman black unless they were trying to make a statement of some kind. Once you do something like that, it's all anyone is ever going to talk about, detracting from the story itself. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but it'd certainly strike me as an odd decision.
Superman is one of those rare characters that wouldn't work as black because of his symbolism. Basically, he's supposed to be the ideal person, and much of this had to do with his upbringing in middle-America. Part of what makes the character who he is is the fact that he has an internal sense that he has a responsibility to the disempowered due to his empowerment (the unfortunate real-wording of 'the American way'). As a black person in the United States, his race, and the general racial disparity between races in this country would subvert that in a sense. Basically, being white means that he was raised with certain 'privileges', and while he's aware of it, he uses his privileged status to better the situations of those around him.
Outside of John Carter of Mars, who was pretty much the well of inspiration from which Superman was plumbed, Superman is pretty much the most iconic super hero of all time. There probably isn't a country that you couldn't show someone a picture of Superman and they wouldn't know who he is. (That is of course not entirely true, but whatever...)
I think that what really makes Superman is his look that really hasn't changed since he was created and his ideals which also haven't really been updated. They've tried to make him cooler and edgier a few times, but in the end they keep going back to the guy that Alex Ross paints a damn fine picture of. Superman is so super, he defies DC's attempts to change him.
As for making Superman black, as people have already stated they did that. My take? Make a new guy that's as cool as Superman, but is also black. Imagine that...a new superhero instead of remaking the old ones. :\
I think that what really makes Superman is his look that really hasn't changed since he was created and his ideals which also haven't really been updated. They've tried to make him cooler and edgier a few times, but in the end they keep going back to the guy that Alex Ross paints a damn fine picture of. Superman is so super, he defies DC's attempts to change him.
As for making Superman black, as people have already stated they did that. My take? Make a new guy that's as cool as Superman, but is also black. Imagine that...a new superhero instead of remaking the old ones. :\
I don't quite understand why there's all this debate lately over superhero skintones. They're whatever race they are for a reason and altering that would require a change of all their relatives/backstories. It's not racism, it's simply being true to the comic, where they had a certain look and skin tone. It would be the same as making Iron Man's suit cyan and purple or having Emma Frost played by an obese actress.
Very surprised no one has mention this but Superman cannot be black for the simple reason that is defies the biological reason why people from Africa are black and Europe white, the degree of sunlight they are made to absorb or deflect. Not to mention the other facial and anatomical characteristics, lack of hair and long limps are due to the need to lose heat, a trait all humans out of Africa still often have. Africans have curly hair and flatter noses due to the need to protect against sunburn. On Krypton the light from its dying red giant star is so weak that it?s species for millions of years had to developed hyper-photosynthesis, not to mention that Kryptonians have lived in hermetically sealed buildings for eons. (This is why Kryptonians where all pale in the movies). If anything Kal-El should look more transparent and possibly green and stockier (due to heavier gravity), but at the very least not look like his ancestors have been living without shelter under strong sun for millions of years. (Unless you change the nature of his planet, source of his powers, on top of the cultural context and parents on earth, etc)
Race isn?t simply something you can arbitrarily change, it isn?t mysterious, its origins and functions are known, and it is important not to forget that. Even as late as the Victorian era many ideas and speculations on the origin of ?race? derived from cultural and bigoted assumptions further damaged humanity?s relations with itself. You can suspend disbelief in the name of artistic or cultural motives, but it sets a dangerous precedent to ignore knowledge and
understanding.
Race isn?t simply something you can arbitrarily change, it isn?t mysterious, its origins and functions are known, and it is important not to forget that. Even as late as the Victorian era many ideas and speculations on the origin of ?race? derived from cultural and bigoted assumptions further damaged humanity?s relations with itself. You can suspend disbelief in the name of artistic or cultural motives, but it sets a dangerous precedent to ignore knowledge and
understanding.
What makes Superman, Superman?
1.) He's from another planet.
2.) Because of his alien physiology, he's superior to us mere mortals.
3.) He maintains a human identity to enable him to blend in with us mere mortals.
4.) He uses his superior capabilities to help people who can't help themselves.
I'm no scholar of the medium, but that seems to be all that remains consistent from his first appearance to now. His strength has varied, his weaknesses have varied, his add-on powers have evolved over the years, he couldn't even always fly (he just Hulk-jumped or ran really fast, I believe). But, those first four things have always been the same as far as I know.
His being black wouldn't change who the character is. It'd be one hell of a jarring change, though, for those of us who grew up reading about Superman as a white dude.
--Morology!
1.) He's from another planet.
2.) Because of his alien physiology, he's superior to us mere mortals.
3.) He maintains a human identity to enable him to blend in with us mere mortals.
4.) He uses his superior capabilities to help people who can't help themselves.
I'm no scholar of the medium, but that seems to be all that remains consistent from his first appearance to now. His strength has varied, his weaknesses have varied, his add-on powers have evolved over the years, he couldn't even always fly (he just Hulk-jumped or ran really fast, I believe). But, those first four things have always been the same as far as I know.
His being black wouldn't change who the character is. It'd be one hell of a jarring change, though, for those of us who grew up reading about Superman as a white dude.
--Morology!