What makes the Empire in Star Wars evil?

[sextus the crazy]

Because they're a bunch of fascists. They're Nazi Germany in all, but name.

To be Nazi Germans you need to have funny German accents and you need an emperor to be screaming speeches in a language we don't understand and with exaggerated hand gestures.

Point taken. They're Fascist Britain, at least.

 

[exobook]

umm what? Ok i'll bite

The Old Republic was a democratic Republic, the Empire was not.

Not quite, while the senate's internal systems do seem democratic, vote by majority and an elected chancellor. We have not evidence that the senators are democratically elected, due to the vast numbers of cultures in the galaxy its possible that while some are eleced by the people others are just cronies appointed by the ruling king/dictator/clan.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

But Alderaan didn't have any gathering enemies...they blew it up just to show how big their space-dicks were and anger Princess Leia.

Yeah it was a World War II reference.

OT: In the original trilogy there's every indication that the Empire wasn't really evil. Vader's (before "Darth" became a title) reference to "there'll be no escape for you this time" clearly meant that he was being pushed and was stretching the law, which meant there were laws and processes protecting civil liberties. There's also an interesting theory about how the Stormtroopers had trouble shooting civilians because they weren't trained to do that. They seemed to shoot just fine when it was against people in uniform. Then again there's also the mention that blowing up the first Death Star was killing Imperial soldiers who understood the risks of their jobs. Blowing up the second Death Star included a lot of innocent contractors with families. Yeah the Rebels were terrorists and by succeeding in taking down the Empire they just caused a lot of chaos and killed a lot of innocent people.

That is assuming that the 'contractors' even were there.

We are talking about a organisation that has:

Blown up a planet.

Has a hatchet man whose answer to nearly every problem is to strangle the guy involved (even if the guy in question did everything right)

Proudly announce that "Rule by Fear" is now standard policy.

And these are just the things they did in the original trilogy, the EU is worse. And you expect a group like this to hire contractors and allow their dependants to live on a secret construction site?

Slavery would be a much cheaper option and keeping families separated is an excellent motivator ('work or you'll never see your wife again!' style) and keeps life support costs down.

 

[Woodsey]

Empire.

"Democratic republic." Umm....

 

[gwilym101]

The empire wasn't democratic. The senate gets disbanded.

THEY BLOW UP A PLANET THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANY REBELS ON IT!! One rebel came from there and they blew it up (yes I know other rebels came from there, but they blew it up because Leia came from there). Everyone knew that the rebel base wasn't there, but they blew it up anyway. That is what people call a disproportionate response.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Well considering the fact (I read on Star Wars Wiki) instead to admitting to blowing up Alderaan, they blame it on the Rebel (which the people didn't bought). Since when a good guy/ group have to lied something like that?

Also at the end of the Return of the Jedi new scenes, there shown few planet full of people were celebrating over the demise of the Empire/ Vader which would mean they were opress under their rules unless you're telling me those people are in fact the bad guys?

 

[Davey Woo]

If you were to put it in real life terms, it'd be like the U.S. nuking the entirety of Iraq or Afghanistan because there happens to be anti-western militants somewhere in those countries.

Correction, it would be like the U.S re-locating to another planet and then blowing up the entire Earth because there happened to be Anti-Western militants on it.

Democracy or not, blowing up planets is just not cool. Also the red lightsabres, I mean, red lightsabres are a big give-away.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

Rofl what?

-Disbanded the senate to complete their total control.
-Were actively racist/specist you see any aliens in the Imperial Navy?
-Blew up a planet with millions of people just to intimidate dissenters.
-Actively engage in torture(first to try and find the rebel base from Leia, and secondly just because torturing Han is a way to get Lukes attention, and thirdly to break Luke's will.)
-Choked the captain of a diplomatic vessel to death.
-Murdered two people and destroyed their farm because they happened to buy two droids that the imperials wanted(Droids which weren't even at said farm when the imperials showed up.)
-Showed up at a freely owned mining facility and threatened to murder everyone if the administrator didn't help them set a trap.
-Clearly tried multiple times to goad Luke into fighting, mostly with threats to go after his sister. Which is more the school yard bully territory of evil.
-Murder their own officers for the slightest mistakes.
-Vader is clearly superior with a light saber(2nd movie) and spends the bulk of the time toying with Luke. Ergo he basically chopped off Luke's hand just to prove a point, it wasn't a spur of the moment clutch fight, it was a cold calculated decision. Which is a pretty fucking evil thing to do to your own kid especially considering how unnecessary it was.
-They hire a guy who literally has to be told not to disintegrate people to death.
-Sell a character to what is basically the Star Wars version of the Mafia.
-Send pilots into an asteroid field basically knowing they are going to die.

 

[smartalec]

im more curious about what good the empire actually did.. seriously i cant think of anything

They did enforce peace in a lot of sectors of space. But they did it the Roman Empire way, by brutally crushing anyone who dared make a move.

 

[Apollo45]

But Alderaan didn't have any gathering enemies...they blew it up just to show how big their space-dicks were and anger Princess Leia.

Yeah it was a World War II reference.

OT: In the original trilogy there's every indication that the Empire wasn't really evil. Vader's (before "Darth" became a title) reference to "there'll be no escape for you this time" clearly meant that he was being pushed and was stretching the law, which meant there were laws and processes protecting civil liberties. There's also an interesting theory about how the Stormtroopers had trouble shooting civilians because they weren't trained to do that. They seemed to shoot just fine when it was against people in uniform. Then again there's also the mention that blowing up the first Death Star was killing Imperial soldiers who understood the risks of their jobs. Blowing up the second Death Star included a lot of innocent contractors with families. Yeah the Rebels were terrorists and by succeeding in taking down the Empire they just caused a lot of chaos and killed a lot of innocent people.

But clerks also points out that any contractors on the second death star wouldn't have known what they were getting into. they would have taken the job full well knowing the risks.

So they would AND wouldn't have known what they were getting into? Okay, I agree and disagree with that. It's irrelevant though because while a contractor may know that there are risks associated with their jobs (I'm sure the guy installing the toilets was pretty guilt-free), it still doesn't make it okay to murder them. Besides there is no indication, none whatsoever, that the galaxy would have been worse off if the rebellion had died over Endor. For all we know once the bad people were gone, the Emperor may have reinstated the Senate and thrown a big party for all the good citizens. We'll never know now will we.

You're ignoring huge parts of the Empire's political policies. They regularly torture people. They enslave entire species, and alienate others. Notice how there are zero aliens in high-positions in the Empire? It's because they're not allowed to be. The only one able to get that high was Grand Admiral Thrawn, and except for the blue skin and red eyes he was essentially human.

Throw that on top of building a Death Star not because they couldn't already destroy a planet (they could; three Star Destroyers can glass a planet without much of an issue) but because they were bored and had a bunch of extra materials lying around, and then destroyed a planet with it - a peaceful one that was threatening no one (hell, according to Leia they didn't even have weapons) and you've got yourself a military dictatorship that is, by definition, evil.

Technically, if you want to get into extended universe stuff, the galaxy would have been better off in the long run if the Empire had continued to exist. Not long afterwards the galaxy is invaded by an extra-galactic race and the New Republic is very nearly wiped out. They partially accomplished this by infiltrating the Senate and screwing things up. If the Empire had remained in control not only would they have not been able to influence anything, since Palpatine was the only one in control, but they also would have come up against a united galaxy with a military force capable of decimating entire planets without batting an eyelash. The invaders would've been boned, to put it lightly. Instead they came upon a fractured, weak New Republic and were able to very nearly dominate the galaxy. All of that, however, doesn't stop the Empire from being evil. It just means that sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

 

[Warachia]

In the movies, the Imperials/Dark Side are a democratic republic, they kept the galaxy in peace, they only blew up Alderaan because the enemy was gathering there and they allowed freedom to express emotion while the light side of the force achieved none of this.

*Note that I am excluding the latest movies because they were just garbage.

You seem to remember the movie very differently, the enemy was never gathering at Alderan, they just wanted something to test their weapons on, they didn't keep the peace, essentially everything was under martial law 24/7 (also they'd kill you if they thought you had something on them without any proof, see Luke's family) and "freedom to express emotion"? No idea what you mean by this.

 

[Playful Pony]

I don't really agree with excluding the newer movies...

But The Empire is obviously a heavily restrictive totalitarian regime, ruled by Palpatine and his henchmen. Those of the highest rank show absolutely no regard for civilian life, and they use fear to keep the various systems populations in line. Just consider the Death Star, a giant space station built around that very idea that fear subdues entire nations. It's a bit like expecting Hitler turning out to being a good guy after all, just having killed all those innocent people and invaded all those planets because reasons. Remember, if we exclude the 3 prequels, what do we actually KNOW about the time before the Empire? Nothing! There are no reasons why the Empire is around as the first movie starts. It's an obviously evil regime led by cruel and ruthless induviduals, and we know nothing of the events that led to it's founding. We have an officer, the Emperors right hand no less, going about killing his own officers and slaugthering populations in search of a few lone rebels.

If you consider the 3 first movies and parts of the expanded universe, I may be able to see some sort of justification for Palpatines actions. A vast alien force is comming, their only chance to resist is a heavily militarized and united galaxy, with a huge standing army and navy. If we don't have the information around the events of movive 4,5 and 6 we have no reason to think the Empire is anything other than the purest of evil!

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I mean hell, how many planet-busting super weapons do they have? Like 6? What good empire has a legitimate reason to own 6+ planet busting super weapons?

Death Star 1: Superlaser Battlestation, could fire once a day due to the low recharge rate on the Superlaser Array

Death Star 2: Roughly 10 times the size of DS1, could fire Superlaser shots every three minutes

Death Star Prototype: The test model for the previous two, skeleton structure built around superlaser, destroyed Kessel's Moon

Sun Crusher (Starfighter sized superweapon that caused Stars to go supernova)

MCPL Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter (one shot caused structural collapse throughout a target, wiping out ships with single blasts)

Orbital Nightcloak: Freeze a planet by blocking out the sun with satellite arrays

World Devastators: Mobile factory ships that swallowed up planetary resources, strip mining worlds and building millions of drone fighters and other warships with the materiel

Tarkin Station: Superlaser Ion Cannon

ISD Conqueror: Star Destroyer built around one of the Death Star's smaller superlasers

Torpedo Sphere: Mini death Stars used for planetary bombardment with radioactive missiles

Planet Cracker: Missiles used to crack planetary cores and cause worldwide chaos

Eye of Palpatine: Asteroid shaped Dreadnought housing millions of troops. A mobile gun platform variant of the Death Star

Galaxy Gun: Massive space cannon capable of firing planet destroying shots through hyperspace

Eclipse and sovereign Super Star Destroyers: Massive warships built around Superlaser arrays.

Fifteen separate Superweapons, and these are only the ones we know about.

 

[KingHodor]

Both the Empire and the Republic were very ambiguous entities. The Republic started a war by invading Geonosis after their agents were caught spying on an independent system's leadership. Then, the CIS broke away and instead of trying to resolve things diplomatically or establish peaceful co-existance - they start a galaxy-wide war to keep control over worlds that no longer wanted to be ruled by them.

Even before the war, the Trade Federation occupied Naboo with an army of droids just for their financial gain and tried to assassinate two Jedi Knights and a Republic senator. The other factions in the CIS similarly occupied and enslaved both neutral and Republic-loyal worlds during the Clone Wars.

That was the problem, not that they were just trying to secede.

Now, the use of an army of brainwashed soldiers deprived of a childhood - that, on the other hand, casts a strange light on the moral standards of the Old Republic.

 

[Warachia]

Just because the contractors knew that their job might be dangerous doesn't give anyone the right to murder them. And besides, they were building an instrument for galactic peace. That's what trying to own everything is, the quest for peace.
Besides there was every indication in the original trilogy that the Rebellion itself pushed the Emperor and Lord Vader into using more extreme methods to stop them. For all we know if the Empire had succeeded in trapping and destroying the Rebels at Endor, he may have reinstated the senate and let everyone relax. There may even have been a tax rebate since the Imperial military would have been able to scale back Palpatine bucks for everybody! (Which is way better than palpating bucks for everyone, they feel disgusting)

Come on, I know you don't really believe this bullshit, "they were building an instrument for galactic peace" is so laughably wrong I'm having trouble focusing on the rest of your argument, they knew exactly what it was for, they never said they were building it to "keep the peace", they were building it to blow up the rebels and stop any other resistance before it starts, by blowing up Alderan (a utopia) as a demonstration of their power. I actually missed when you said "That's what trying to own everything is, the quest for peace" because I couldn't get over the earlier statement, owning everything is absolutely NOT the quest for peace, it's the quest for owning and ruling everything, Palpatine did it because he's greedy, hates the previous system, and wants to see his ideals spread throughout the galaxy (ideals that encourage slavery, selling out friends and murder).

"Besides there was every indication in the original trilogy that the Rebellion itself pushed the Emperor and Lord Vader into using more extreme methods to stop them." No there isn't, the empire were building the death star regardless of whether the rebels showed up and never once took them seriously as a threat (until they stole the death star plans which might have been the thing that put them on the empire's radar), though the worst statement is "There may even have been a tax rebate since the Imperial military would have been able to scale back " Of course there wouldn't, he'd use it as an excuse to create more star destroyers, death stars, and might even enforce mandatory military service.

Also, even in the original trilogy they mention Palpatine destroyed the senate when he rose to power, and has been in power for some time before the rebels appeared on their radar, I have no idea why you'd even think he'd reinstate the senate, especially after you see how he encourages backstabbing as a way of rising through ranks, and sees killing people as a way to inspire others.

Captcha: that's what she said (for some reason written in Olde style font)

 

[KingHodor]

I mean hell, how many planet-busting super weapons do they have? Like 6? What good empire has a legitimate reason to own 6+ planet busting super weapons?

Death Star 1: Superlaser Battlestation, could fire once a day due to the low recharge rate on the Superlaser Array

Death Star 2: Roughly 10 times the size of DS1, could fire Superlaser shots every three minutes

Death Star Prototype: The test model for the previous two, skeleton structure built around superlaser, destroyed Kessel's Moon

Sun Crusher (Starfighter sized superweapon that caused Stars to go supernova)

MCPL Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter (one shot caused structural collapse throughout a target, wiping out ships with single blasts)

Orbital Nightcloak: Freeze a planet by blocking out the sun with satellite arrays

World Devastators: Mobile factory ships that swallowed up planetary resources, strip mining worlds and building millions of drone fighters and other warships with the materiel

Tarkin Station: Superlaser Ion Cannon

ISD Conqueror: Star Destroyer built around one of the Death Star's smaller superlasers

Torpedo Sphere: Mini death Stars used for planetary bombardment with radioactive missiles

Planet Cracker: Missiles used to crack planetary cores and cause worldwide chaos

Eye of Palpatine: Asteroid shaped Dreadnought housing millions of troops. A mobile gun platform variant of the Death Star

Galaxy Gun: Massive space cannon capable of firing planet destroying shots through hyperspace

Eclipse and sovereign Super Star Destroyers: Massive warships built around Superlaser arrays.

Fifteen separate Superweapons, and these are only the ones we know about.

And don't forget that a single Imperial-class Star Destroyer is supposed to be capable of executing a Base-Delta-Zero order, i.e. an orbital bombardment capable of wiping out intelligent life on a planet.

 

[viranimus]

The empire is not evil.

The only evil in the empire is that of perception of people living in a world governed by political correct ideology and hypocritical faux enlightenment.

Actually if you look at most works of narrative fiction, the "good" guys are the ones who are typically more "evil"