What makes the Illusive Man evil?

[DudeistBelieve]

I'm not gonna say he's salt the universe, he's not. But I played Mass Effect 2, he doesn't come across as evil or racist. He and Cerebus are pretty much what they flat out say they are, an organization for humanities best interest.

It doesn't seem like he wants to go out of his way to harm the other species, but he's not going to put anyone or anything else above his mission goal. He also seems fairly reasonable, no matter what choices Sheppard chooses he throws in his two cents but lets the decision stand.

So whats the clear indication that the Illusive Man is evil?

 

[The Gnome King]

I'm not gonna say he's salt the universe, he's not. But I played Mass Effect 2, he doesn't come across as evil or racist. He and Cerebus are pretty much what they flat out say they are, an organization for humanities best interest.

It doesn't seem like he wants to go out of his way to harm the other species, but he's not going to put anyone or anything else above his mission goal. He also seems fairly reasonable, no matter what choices Sheppard chooses he throws in his two cents but lets the decision stand.

So whats the clear indication that the Illusive Man is evil?

I played through MA2 and never got an indication that he was evil at all. He simply puts the supremacy of his race (meaning, actual RACE/SPECIES here; not skin color) over that of all other sentient life in the galaxy.

I see nothing inherently wrong with this.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

Humanity's best interest at the expense of all the other species.

If you take the ending choice that favours him (avoiding spoilers) Shepard calls him on it and he outright states that the tech will be used for humans not anyone else.

He's not strictly racist it's more that he is upsetting galactic harmony and humanity's integration with the galaxy as a whole.

Looking out for your own best interests is fine but you don't have to be up in everyone's face about it.

 

[SenorNemo]

He's not. He's a Bioware character, and Bioware knows better than to sort their characters into simple good and evil pigeonholes. Everything you pointed out seems right, but that's without taking into consideration all the incredibly shady or unethical things he and Cerberus have done. He's not evil, and you'll not find any clear indication in ME2 that he is, but he sure backs a lot of sketchy activities. As it stands in ME2, he's not a bad guy. Perhaps further developments in ME3 will make this no longer the case.

 

[DEAD34345]

Depends on your consideration of evil. If extreme ruthlessness is evil, then he is definitely evil. Hasn't Cerberus done such things as staging an "accidental" release of element 0 on a planet just so they can have more biotics to test on?

 

[AlternatePFG]

They don't come out as evil unless you remember all the shit Cerberus pulled in ME1. Seriously, BioWare just kinda mentions it once, and it's never brought up again in ME2.

 

[soren7550]

Really? He's evil because:
- he will do anything to make humanity rule over the alien races
- ordered the attack on the Migrant Fleet
- wanted the Collector Base to be kept so that human dominance would be gauranteed
- implanted Paul Grayson with Reaper technology
- conducted experiments on children
- Akuze
- had Corpral Toombs tourtured and experimented on for several years
- is the head of Cerberus

and on and on and on.
//masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Illusive_Man

 

[Frotality]

he's evil because bioware apparently wants to make him a villian in ME3, so just like every warcraft villian, he's gonna lose all character sympathy and moral ambiguity so we can have a boss fight with him.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Well, Jack's project that he knew 'nothing' about but still funded.
Project Overlord...
The murder of Admiral Kahoku (Mass Effect 1)
The mass murder of Alliance troops on Akuze (Mass Effect 1 again, mentioned a few times in 2)

The minor point that he puts his personal power above everything else in the Universe. The human dominance bit always strikes me as rubbish, what he really means is Cerberus dominance. Mass Effect 2 paints Cerberus in a much more nautral light than 1, where they evil personified. Now they're only evil personified when it suits them to be so.

He's an utterly ruthless individual who only offers help to those he feels are useful to him, that's going to come back and bite you in the ass in 3, Bioware have already confirmed it.

 

[kuyo]

It's the same situation as Fox News: He's either evil or stupid. Every one of the horrible operations Cerberus takes part in are labeled rogue, so either he's incompetent and can't keep track of any of his resources, or they weren't rogue and the illusive man did approve of all that stuff.
Personally, I lean more to stupid or both since he also sent Shepard into a known trap without any information or bombs, he covered a stealth ship in his secret organization's logos, he left all those people on the derelict reaper to go insane, and he sits around staring at a sun (which is probably why he needed bionic replacements.)
Either way, you shouldn't give him the base because he'll probably make a reaper.

 

[The Gnome King]

Really? He's evil because:
- he will do anything to make humanity rule over the alien races
- ordered the attack on the Migrant Fleet
- wanted the Collector Base to be kept so that human dominance would be gauranteed
- implanted Paul Grayson with Reaper technology
- conducted experiments on children
- Akuze
- had Corpral Toombs tourtured and experimented on for several years
- is the head of Cerberus

and on and on and on.
//masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Illusive_Man

1) Our own US government has done anything to make us rule over other nations; in particular those with resources (like oil) we can use
2) Our own US government has ordered attacks on countries that have made no aggressive moves towards us.
3) Our own US government has done much to make sure US dominance will be guaranteed
4) Our own US government experimented on blacks (The Tuskegee syphilis experiment) in order to advance medical technology
5) Our own US government has tortured and detained people in Guantanamo for years

Is the US government then evil? And we're talking other humans here, not just aliens. If you're not from the US look to the atrocities your own government has participated in; most countries in the world don't exactly have saintly track records.

 

[Vern5]

But I played Mass Effect 2, he doesn't come across as evil or racist.

Is that not the mark of a truly evil man? To be able to enact or enable horrible things and yet seem charming and level-headed at the same time; that is a very sinister presence.

Also, he's voiced by Martin Sheen who ended up spawning Charlie sheen. The evil isn't on the surface but it is inherently present.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

It's the same situation as Fox News: He's either evil or stupid. Every one of the horrible operations Cerberus takes part in are labeled rogue, so either he's incompetent and can't keep track of any of his resources, or they weren't rogue and the illusive man did approve of all that stuff.

If you talk to EDI after Joker...improves her she states that there are never more than a dozen Cerberus cells operating at any one time because the Illusive man like to personally oversee all of them and any more than a dozen and he can't supervise as effectively with more cells active.

Basically calling bullshit on the Illusive man's denials.

 

[Elamdri]

If you look at the Illusive Man, what makes him "Evil" in a sense is his ruthless nature and his selfish stance on humanity first. If you think in terms of D&D Alignment, he'd probably be like Neutral Evil. He's not opposed to breaking the law to get things done or to suit his purposes, but at the same time, he doesn't just indiscriminately cause suffering just for the pure pleasure of causing suffering. I actually might classify him as Lawful Evil in the sense that Cerberus is a large and complex organization, even though it is unlawful from the greater galactic scale.

 

[kuyo]

It's the same situation as Fox News: He's either evil or stupid. Every one of the horrible operations Cerberus takes part in are labeled rogue, so either he's incompetent and can't keep track of any of his resources, or they weren't rogue and the illusive man did approve of all that stuff.

If you talk to EDI after Joker...improves her she states that there are never more than a dozen Cerberus cells operating at any one time because the Illusive man like to personally oversee all of them and any more than a dozen and he can't supervise as effectively with more cells active.

Basically calling bullshit on the Illusive man's denials.

Exactly, I can understand where he'd have trouble keeping Shepard in line (though, that he can at all is the work of railroading,) but if those other groups go rogue, the illusive man could just send in white-washers to dispose of the administration and get the project back on track. Still, he's got to be stupid too to be that much in the public eye. I'm pretty sure EDI could find him based on the stars outside his office. That and Miranda knows where he is, so we could seduce/torture the location out of her.

 

[Meestor Pickle]

You humans are all racist!

I don't see anything wrong with him, where did you hear he was evviiiilll

 

[Vern5]

Really? He's evil because:
- he will do anything to make humanity rule over the alien races
- ordered the attack on the Migrant Fleet
- wanted the Collector Base to be kept so that human dominance would be gauranteed
- implanted Paul Grayson with Reaper technology
- conducted experiments on children
- Akuze
- had Corpral Toombs tourtured and experimented on for several years
- is the head of Cerberus

and on and on and on.
//masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Illusive_Man

1) Our own US government has done anything to make us rule over other nations; in particular those with resources (like oil) we can use
2) Our own US government has ordered attacks on countries that have made no aggressive moves towards us.
3) Our own US government has done much to make sure US dominance will be guaranteed
4) Our own US government experimented on blacks (The Tuskegee syphilis experiment) in order to advance medical technology
5) Our own US government has tortured and detained people in Guantanamo for years

Is the US government then evil? And we're talking other humans here, not just aliens. If you're not from the US look to the atrocities your own government has participated in; most countries in the world don't exactly have saintly track records.

Well, yeah. That's a whole laundry list of morally bankrupt actions. Every body of power ends up like this, though, so its not like the American government is any better or worse than any other government. It's just that they are all evil to a certain degree.

 

[dvd_72]

He may not be "eats babies for breakfast" eveil, but his "humanity first" ideals don't sit well with me. I mean, nothing good can come of forcing humanity into dominance over other species. It would be better to co-develop instead. Besides, it's not like humanity has a good history when it comes to having dominance over pretty much anything. we tend to abuse that power untill it iether dies or revolts.

 

[Shirokurou]

He is Machiavellian and decides that the end justifies the means.
He's actually just like a political leader or warlord.

But that sort of considered evil by the public.

 

[Squarez]

But I played Mass Effect 2, he doesn't come across as evil or racist.

Is that not the mark of a truly evil man? To be able to enact or enable horrible things and yet seem charming and level-headed at the same time; that is a very sinister presence.

Also, he's voiced by Martin Sheen who ended up spawning Charlie sheen. The evil isn't on the surface but it is inherently present.

Did you just imply (even slightly) that Martin Sheen was anything but a pure force for awesome?

Get out.