What makes the Illusive Man evil?

[Lesd3vil]

The fact that none of you people have yet questioned the notions of 'good' and 'evil' amuses me.

What are 'good' and 'evil'? Words that people made up. Good means we agree with you, evil means we don't. Simple as that.

 

[Monsterfurby]

He is Machiavellian and decides that the end justifies the means.
He's actually just like a political leader or warlord.

But that sort of considered evil by the public.

He believes the ends justify the means, exactly. I personally don't consider him evil, just ruthless.

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

He is Machiavellian and decides that the end justifies the means.
He's actually just like a political leader or warlord.

But that sort of considered evil by the public.

He believes the ends justify the means, exactly. I personally don't consider him evil, just ruthless.

Exactly. I see the Illusive man not so much being about good or evil. It's all about the rights of the few, vs the needs of the many.

For example:
Would you choose 10 people to die or 1? Logically, people would choose the 1 person to save the 10.
Would you kill 1 person, to save 10 people? Apparently, people don't, because know we believe that to murder a person is evil.

Even though in the former case, you're still the exact reason that 1 person dies, you're not actually directly killing him, which makes a huge ethical difference for us now.


The Illusive man sets him above this. He WILL kill that one person, he WILL choose the needs of the many over the rights of the few.

Asa a famous anthropologist once said:

?Leaders are not the virtuous people they claim to be; they put politics before statesmanship; they distort facts and oversimplify issues; they promise what no one could deliver; and they are liars. But leaders, if they are to be effective, have no choice in the matter: they could not be virtuous and leaders at the same time. They most have the -paradox- moral courage to set themselves above established values and believes, to attain their ends."
F.G. Bailey

 

[Zantos]

He seems pretty legit. Bioware did well to classify actions as paragon and renegade rather than good and evil, since it's hard to argue that any action that keeps you on the path to saving the galaxy could be defined as evil.

 

[Booze Zombie]

That he lies to you at every chance, personally sanctioned all of the actions you fought against in the first game and if you look on YouTube, if you hand him the *maguffin* he smiles in an evil manner, as if he has just been handed his own Reaper making machine.

 

[CommanderKirov]

He is evil 'cause Bioware will make him one of the side "bosses" in ME3. And we cannot have any actuall dillemas in our evil characters now can we? He will soon propably turn on humanity as well and sit on a large throne made out of skulls. Just so the thicker of the gaming people would get the hint.

 

[SamStar42]

He's the personification of "the end justifies the means". Which may not be outright evil, but is certainly an ethically dubious position which quickly leads to all manner of corruption and tyranny here in the real world.

I like this reasoning.

To be fair, everyone in the Mass Effect world has moral ambiguity behind them. The council have genetically altered a race so they can handle them better. Jack...let's not get started on Jack.

The man only has interest for his own race and in a universe which seems to be [well, is] facing impending attack, it's not really that good to only protect your own.

 

[Bobbity]

Well that's the thing. Taken on his own, he is, yes, a perfectly good guy. The problem is that his organization is a real *****, as you see in both ME games.

It's difficult to assimilate the extremist terrorist organization and Martin Sheen, but it's the only way to gain a proper perspective on the character.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

So whats the clear indication that the Illusive Man is evil?

I think the point is that his paragon/renagade status is ambigious. It is like the ending to Inception, we can't be entirely sure about it either way, so it is open to debate and interpertation.

 

[Irridium]

He's more stupid than evil. Every plan that we see of his has completely failed in the worst way possible. Not to mention he can't keep his cells under control, considering all the damn rouge cells that are running around.

Just more of a stupid jackass than really evil.

 

[Macheteswordgun]

I'm not gonna say he's salt the universe, he's not. But I played Mass Effect 2, he doesn't come across as evil or racist. He and Cerebus are pretty much what they flat out say they are, an organization for humanities best interest.

It doesn't seem like he wants to go out of his way to harm the other species, but he's not going to put anyone or anything else above his mission goal. He also seems fairly reasonable, no matter what choices Sheppard chooses he throws in his two cents but lets the decision stand.

So whats the clear indication that the Illusive Man is evil?

Because and i quote

*puts on sunglasses and takes off dramatically*

HES ILLUSIVE

 

[Spacewolf]

[The Illusive man sets him above this. He WILL kill that one person, he WILL choose the needs of the many over the rights of the few.

Asa a famous anthropologist once said:

?Leaders are not the virtuous people they claim to be; they put politics before statesmanship; they distort facts and oversimplify issues; they promise what no one could deliver; and they are liars. But leaders, if they are to be effective, have no choice in the matter: they could not be virtuous and leaders at the same time. They most have the -paradox- moral courage to set themselves above established values and believes, to attain their ends."
F.G. Bailey

more like he would kill the 10 aliens to save the one human or burn an alien world to save a human ship

 

[Saviordd1]

I'm not gonna say he's salt the universe, he's not. But I played Mass Effect 2, he doesn't come across as evil or racist. He and Cerebus are pretty much what they flat out say they are, an organization for humanities best interest.

It doesn't seem like he wants to go out of his way to harm the other species, but he's not going to put anyone or anything else above his mission goal. He also seems fairly reasonable, no matter what choices Sheppard chooses he throws in his two cents but lets the decision stand.

So whats the clear indication that the Illusive Man is evil?

His goals are good, his methods are not.

He believes humanity should be stronger, but hes willing to put all other races to the side to do so.

lets also look at his chain of offenses shall we?

-Turned an entire colony into husks JUST FOR SCIENCE
-Was toying with thorian creepers JUST FOR SCIENCE
-Unleashed Thresher maws on a squad of HUMAN marines JUST FOR SCIENCE
-Hooked up an innocent civilian who happened to be brilliant to an evil machine JUST FOR SCIENCE
-Wanted to keep a machine and base half made of human suffering and DNA JUST TO GET AHEAD
-Wants Shepard, savior of the galaxy, dead as of Mass effect 3 FOR REASONS THAT ILL BE DAMNED IF I KNOW
-Abducted kids to be tested with to make them stronger (jack) JUST TO GET AHEAD
-Tried to blow up a quarian ship (which is a huge deal to them) JUST CAUSE
-Purposely indoctrinated a soldier because he left the orginization JUST FOR TEH LULZ

Yeah...hes sorta evil

 

[MasterOfWorlds]

Looking at just the man himself, and not even looking at his previous actions and involvement in shady activity, I don't like him. The way he speaks, the way he blatantly dismisses things that he doesn't feel are important or want to talk about, and various other things make me distrust the guy. Add his previous actions and other things that you find out he's involved in, and yeah, I think he's a dick. Evil? Maybe not in the classical sense. My beef with him is really more on an idealistic level, not the moral level. Because hell, I understand that sometimes good people need to do nasty things for the greater good. At least good people have the decency to feel bad about it afterwards.

 

[x EvilErmine x]

I actually find him to be quite charming and likeable as a character. He's more than the 'generic' evil genius oh so meany games are fond of, but instead he inhabits a morally gray area which is a refreshing change of pace. Sure he's done or rather ordered done some nasty things but then if he actually helps to stop the Reapers then really what's happened in the past will be irrelevant.