What Were You Expecting? A Duke Nukem Game With A Deep Story And Complex Mechanics??

[FalloutJack]

Jack isn't complaining. Why are other people?

 

[RA92]

We were all shocked and amazed at how cool it is that you get to see naked girls and huge alien monsters getting blown up on a football field. Where has all that excitement gone?

You're getting it ass backwards. I'll just quote Andy Chalk and Xzi.

As for DNF, it sounds like just a balls-out fuckup. Randy Pitchford talked the talk about really "getting" the game because of his time at 3D Realms but it's pretty clear that either he's not calling the design shots or he's just full of shit. I've been shouting from the rooftops since long before the game launched that what made Duke Nukem 3D great was not swearing and dick jokes and schoolgirl blowjobs; it was an imaginative arsenal, brilliant level design and truckloads of innovations. DN3D was one of the finest shooter experiences ever, that just happened to feature a character originally designed as a cheap, throwaway parody of 80s and 90s action heroes.

Somehow, Gearbox got that formula backwards. The focus was entirely on Duke the character - or, more to the point, Gearbox's interpretation of the character, which I think was almost entirely off-base anyway - while the actual gameplay was by all reports sorely neglected. As far as I'm concerned, the reviews are simply the final proof that Gearbox and 2K simply did not get it - and now 2K is paying the price.

No, it didn't hit a home run. It didn't even make a base hit. The only thing it kept in tact from Duke 3D was a decent sense of humor. That wasn't even Duke 3D's main selling point for me. So what were the real selling points?

- Branching, complex level design with multiple paths to your final destination, as well as several secret areas.
- Challenging exploration and weapon puzzles required to progress from area to area.
- Originality and charm. The weapons were unique, and you got to use any of them at any time (assuming you had ammo). Rather than make more unique weapons, DNF just copied all of its weapons from Duke 3D, and limited how many you could carry.
- Survival aspect of the game. No regenerating health, limited health packs and ammo scattered throughout each level.

And God forbid someone reviews something based on gameplay.

 

[Laser Priest]

We were expecting a game that was at least mildly entertaining.

What we got was pretty much a roid-rage version of Call of Duty with more dick jokes.

 

[Saelune]

I wanted Forever to be Duke Nukem 3D...but better. Open levels with hidden secrets and lots of funny references. A hoard of fun destructive weapons with NO weapon limit to kill my enemies as I zip around kicking alien ass.
Duke Nukem 3D was a fun game. It wasnt deep or complex, but entertaining.

 

[mjc0961]

What I was expecting was a Duke Nukem game. What I got was the bastard offspring of Duke Nukem 3D and Halo. Poor kid inherited lots of powerful enemies that rush you 90's FPS style from Duke 3D, and two weapons, recharging health, and linear levels from Halo.

And for me, it's the combo of the 90's style enemies that just keep coming to you with no regard for their own safety and the recharging health that did the game in. I get shot a few times, so I go run behind a rock to recharge (because Duke is apparently a pussy now), and the enemies quickly follow me and finish me off. WTF? This is not fun. Either give me health packs back or give the enemies some more programming than "rush at Duke and try to kill him." Me having to hide to get health back and them constantly following me does not work out too well.

And I'm sorry, but Duke still cracking jokes is NOT enough to balance out the fact that not only am I not having fun, I'm finding the game very frustrating. Some people are actually enjoying the gameplay, and I respect that. Some people think the gameplay is mediocre or bad but don't care because Duke is still Duke, and that's cool too. But don't tell ME that I should like it too just because Duke still cracks jokes. If all I wanted is to hear Duke crack jokes, I can go find some YouTube videos, soundboards, or go play Duke Nukem 3D and have some fun playing while he cracks jokes.

Also, I've heard some people say that two weapons makes it harder and older FPS games were too easy (or boring) because you had every gun all the time and could just easily destroy everything. To anyone who says that, I call bullshit. Go play Doom or Doom II on Ultra Violence and beat the entire game with NO CHEATS. Then come back and tell me how easy it was because you had all the guns. If you still claim it's easy, you're either a liar or you're a god at FPS games, but honestly my best is on the former. And if you tell me it was still boring, well then I must confess that I'm going to assume you're a robot.

No one remembers that Duke Nukem 3D, at the time, was just a generic FPS incorporating most of the modern FPS mechanics of that era - except with gratuitous sophomoric "humor".

Oh I remember that quite well. But even so, Duke Nukem 3D managed to be a solid game as far as its shooting mechanics went, and it's still some fun to play today (although honestly, I'd much rather play Doom; better, more intense gameplay is worth losing the ability to aim up and down and and losing the jokes). Duke Nukem Forever, on the other hand... Well I just explained this above so I'm not going to repeat it all again.

Ooh, ooh, I know the next way to modernize shooters -- let's remove ammo as a resource! Instead your guns heat up, so you can only fire a few shots in a burst and then need to go back to hiding behind the conveniently placed chest high walls! Now all we need is one otherwise decent shooter to incorporate this concept, and it can be the new "thing" that all shooters need to have forever more! I mean, don't *you* hate when you run out of ammo at an inconvenient time?

It was done in Mass Effect 1, and taken out in the sequel.

Yeah, but ME wasn't really an FPS. At least not a game that people look at for an example of an FPS.

Okay, if people want to whine and cry about Mass Effect 2 not being an RPG, whatever. But you cannot call Mass Effect an FPS. It is impossible. If you need a refresher, FPS stands for "First Person Shooter." All three of those are the key words here: it's a shooter, and it has to be in FIRST PERSON. Mass Effect is a third person game, and therefore by definition NOT a first person shooter because it's not even a first person game. Mass Effect is not a first person anything.

 

[CD-R]

http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2011/06/duke-nukem-is-awesome-but-his-game-is-awful/

Watching the Video Games Awesome team's attitudes go from super hyped and excited to soul crushing disappointment killed the last shreds of interest in the game for me. Oh well. At least we still have Serious Sam 3 to look forward too. Also these "you didn't like Duke Nukem so you suck and are a bad person:" threads are starting to get tiresome.

 

[xXDeMoNiCXx]

I expected the game to fail....actually I was kind of hoping for it too.

 

[Greatjusticeman]

Hopefully, before my time comes, some developer will make a serious Duke Nukem game.

One where he develops as a character, becomes mature, settles peace with the aliens.

Then, comes out of the closet.

 

[Zhukov]

And to all the young people reviewing the game exactly the same way the pros do it just becuase they hate it, have some integrity and ask yourself if you had fun.

No, no I did not.

I was bored after about an hour.

 

[Haydyn]

Why do sequels sell so good if fans usually hate them for being different than the first game ie: Dragon Age?

 

[Jezzascmezza]

I think most were just looking for a fun, silly, over-the-top shooter with gore and boobs and crude humour, THAT WAS ACTUALLY FUN TO PLAY.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

People were expecting a Duke Nukem game that actually played like Duke Nukem.

And, for the record, that is more or less what they got. Last time I checked, Duke Nukem 3D (The last FPS in the series though there were several 3rd person games that came later) has most of the same control problems. That does not, of course, excuse their presence but mechanically it is Duke Nukem game and many of the design decisions seem to reflect the fact that development began back in the early days of the FPS (the genre is now nearly three times older than it was when 3D was released).

For my part, the problem with the game was simply an inconsistency of design. Apparently, the people at 3D Realms simply didn't know what a Duke Nukem game was supposed to be in spite of having made several of them in the past. The mash-up of old style shooter mechanics (the aforementioned "floatyness" comes largely from this) with new design conceits (regenerating health etc) makes for a confused shooter experience. The inclusion of platforming and various other bits were at times interesting but seemed to have no place in the game.

Duke was traditionally a shooter of the old style: where combat was built upon the notion of resource management and the bulk of the gameplay was in navigating various mazes. I'm not sure this design conceit would still work with modern audiences. What I will say is simply that Bulletstorm did a better job of making a game that captured the spirit of Duke Nukem without being saddled with unpleasant luggage.

And, for the record, I think that the debate regarding Duke as a character misses the point more than a bit. Even by modern standards, he isn't really all that bad of a character. The problem is, the majority of modern gamers have simply never played a Duke Nukem game. It isn't that the character is irrelevant or dated but simply that any value the character might have is lost. People that played Duke Nukem 3D when it came out are generally older than I am, and I'm 27. A lot of my peers gave up gaming as a regular hobby long ago and we are basically the only ones who actually cared about Duke Nukem Forever.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Also, I've heard some people say that two weapons makes it harder and older FPS games were too easy (or boring) because you had every gun all the time and could just easily destroy everything. To anyone who says that, I call bullshit. Go play Doom or Doom II on Ultra Violence and beat the entire game with NO CHEATS. Then come back and tell me how easy it was because you had all the guns. If you still claim it's easy, you're either a liar or you're a god at FPS games, but honestly my best is on the former. And if you tell me it was still boring, well then I must confess that I'm going to assume you're a robot.

Actually, with only a few exceptions, that feat is relatively easy. Of course, I played both when they were released nearly 20 years ago and somehow get suckered into buying them every time they come out on a new platform so I might not be the best example.

 

[evilneko]

/ThreadHop

I expected a game that was fun. I wanted a game that hearkened back to the good ol' days before FPSes started putting on airs, a game I could pick up and be blasting away with an entire arsenal at my disposal within seconds of hitting "New Game", a game where everything I need to know is summed up without worthless unskippable drivel but rather the opening line "Damn, those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride!" and the realization that I was stuck in a world full of said alien bastards with only my wits, my arsenal, and some cool gadgets to save me.

Instead I got...whatever the hell DNF is.

 

[Rabish Bini]

I wanted to have a health number/bar, be able to carry truckloads of weapons AND for the levels to be wide open, full of things to explore and discover.

I basically wanted Duke Nukem 3D 2, and the game was not that.

 

[Choppaduel]

I certainly wasn't expecting cover based shooting & turret sections, the games industry has let me down too many times for me to have high expectations about anything.

[hr]

*ramblings*

Have you even played Duke Nukem 3D?
No one, and i mean no one, who was waiting for DNF was not doing so fro the story or complex gameplay. We wanted FUN, quick-paced, reckless shooter with interesting level design and silly yet usable weapons.

What we got?
Generic, cover based, slow paced, painfully linear boring shooter with overdone plot that seems to be more exposed than actual shooting. The game lacks pacing, the levels are straightforward without any reason to stray off the path, often even not allowing it or punishing you for trying, it has too many static gameplay elements like turret section or unskipable scripted events that prevent you from moving forward, enemies coming in packs of *gasp* one-two at a time, long periods where there is no shooting at all just moving from point A to point B through narrow paths, bad gun play that has no feel to it.. It's like they took everything that made DN3D enjoyable and changed it for everything that makes so many gamers go "meh" about current day shooters.

Looks like we wanted the same thing.

[hr]

No one remembers that Duke Nukem 3D, at the time, was just a generic FPS incorporating most of the modern FPS mechanics of that era - except with gratuitous sophomoric "humor".

And so, they complain when Duke Nukem Forever is just a generic FPS incorporating most of the modern FPS mechanics of this era - except with gratuitous sophomoric "humor".

Interesting. I hadn't thought about it like that. I would still prefer run and gun to trundling cover based tho.

 

[Glaive_21842]

Good that Duke Nukem Forever is finally finished, like a massively constipated turd that just needed to get out of 3D Realm's system. Now they, led by Gearbox, have a fresh start.

I found DNF to be fun, the Duke I remember pretty much. People keep bashing the bad 'mechanics' without saying what that means. It plays like most shooters as far as I can tell. Duke moved where I told him to, shot where I told him to, and threw shit where I told him to... I had tried to play through Crysis 2 previously, but it didn't hold my interest :/

Now i can't speak for everyone here, but most shooters suck, so playing like one isn't really a good thing.
Call of Duty, Halo, Battefield, the list goes on. Damn near every modern FPS I've played this generation has failed to truly grab my interest. I shit you not, i have more fun playing against bots on Unreal 2004 than i do playing the campaign of any shooter released in the past 5 years.

Of course, that's just me.