What would it take to make the Pokemon world and games more interesting?

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NihilSinLulz

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Let me just get this out of the way, I've recently played and finished Pokemon Y and thought it was great fun. The mechanics and visuals are better than ever, and mega evolutions will make the game more interesting in the meta level.

With that said, I was utterly bored by the story. I didn't feel invested in the plot and aside from enjoying the look of the new areas, I could care less about the world's 'lore'--such as it is.

So how can a series such as Pokemon evolve (pun unintended) into a more interesting set of games?

Personally, I think Game Freak kinda screwed themselves with how they've shown the Pokemon world thus far. The games have all been about becoming the region's best Pokemon trainer and defeating the region's evil organization. Everything else seems to be secondary: the other characters, the world set up, and even the world's history seems to be in service of this. This is great for making the player feel awesome, but (I think) it greatly retards the franchise from ever growing in its narrative complexity or depth.

An opposite example that comes to mind it Monster Rancher, a similar franchise involving training your own monsters. However, the difference (especially in the tv series) is that the player is a bit player in a greater story. The world of Monster Rancher is an ancient one full of sadness, loss, regression, and ultimately hope.

By establishing its own history in a cohesive way, it allows for the believability of its creatures and characters. Thus, it ties the weight of a historical narrative to its lore.

Pokemon does none of that.

Sure you have movie and game lore talking about god pokemon and original pokemon, but it undermines itself through bizarre pokedex entries, many many lore inconsistencies, and everyone essentially living in some utopia revolving around Pokemon. Hell, after playing a bunch of games from the franchise I still have no idea what exactly a Pokemon even is.

Anyways, those are my thoughts. I'm curious to read your opinions on the subject weather they agree with mine or not.

Short version: Pokemon may never get the more mature game some fans desire because series' creators are too focused on empowering the player instead of world building. Even if they made the switch, it may be too late meaning they'd have to do a full on reboot.

PS. Another series (at least its tv incarnation) that did it right was Digimon. The later seasons were incredible.
 

Leemaster777

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I feel like if X and Y had Black and White's story and evil team, then it would have been the most perfect Pokemon game ever. Because everything mechanically related to X and Y is fantastic. It just failed on those two aspects.
 

smithy_2045

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Given that Pokemon sells enormously well as is, I don't think there's any need to "improve" the story.
 

Racecarlock

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Why does everything need a complex and deep plot? What, do the care bears need a complicated backstory involving satanism and quantum theory? Does Dora The Explorer need references to immigration reform?

It's pokemon. It's not supposed to be mature or deep. It's just there so kids can have elemental creatures battle each other in awesome ways.
 

MrSir231

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Oct 24, 2013
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I felt that X and Y's story was fine, at least for the villain team. Lysandre is actually my favorite Pokemon villain, although battling him could've been more of a challenge.
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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Racecarlock said:
Why does everything need a complex and deep plot? What, do the care bears need a complicated backstory involving satanism and quantum theory? Does Dora The Explorer need references to immigration reform?

It's pokemon. It's not supposed to be mature or deep. It's just there so kids can have elemental creatures battle each other in awesome ways.
Tell that to Pokémon Black and White, those games actually had the players (at least those who care about the story) question the very concept of Pokémon battles. Just because most people I see around gaming sites don't give a damn about the story doesn't mean it's not necessary.
 

Hero of Lime

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Leemaster777 said:
I feel like if X and Y had Black and White's story and evil team, then it would have been the most perfect Pokemon game ever. Because everything mechanically related to X and Y is fantastic. It just failed on those two aspects.
Exactly! Team Flare could've been way more interesting than they ended up being. Lysandre could've been so much more complex like N, but he ended up going the angst-y muahahaha villain route. The story was a bit average compared to the fifth gen games, but otherwise, X and Y were amazing in most other ways.
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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Mostly agreed with Racecarlock. Go too far and you lose what makes it accessible to all ages, not just the people who grew up with the first generations and now want their franchise to mature with them. You want that, go check out that 'Apokelypse' fan film.

That said, two generations ago I had the idea for a new game where the evil Team du jour actually won and successfully took over the new region. Your journey begins when one of their agents shows up demanding that you come with him to be trained as a 'Team Dark Matter' grunt. Turns out your mom got your Dark Matter outfit in the mail but burned it, hoping it would just blow over despite TDM mailing uniforms to everyone who reaches your age to draft them. Instead the agent starts bullying her with his single Pokemon, and you chase him off with your starter.

Beyond the fact that you are now technically a fugitive from TDM, you travel the lands seeking to become a League Champion not merely for your own satisfaction and glory, but so you can use your authority to have the League send strong trainers like the Elite Four to liberate your home country from them. Mechanically, this would give you context for more team battles later on, fighting alongside sympathetic Gym Leaders against the strongest evil Team ever (and their leader will have captured and forcibly tamed a Legendary by the time you fight her). Her evil motive? She believes that Pokemon are a test created by God to determine which human is the best-suited to rule the world and make it a paradise... and she believes herself to be the best Pokemon trainer as well as the best human trainer, treating them all equally harshly.

I'd call it Pokemon Order and Pokemon Chaos. You like? Too dark for the franchise?
 

MrSir231

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TizzytheTormentor said:
MrSir231 said:
I felt that X and Y's story was fine, at least for the villain team. Lysandre is actually my favorite Pokemon villain, although battling him could've been more of a challenge.
My problem with him is that he was such an obvious villain and yet Sycamore could never get the hint...
Lysandre: "The weapon was terrible, but it did wipe away the filth...wouldn't it be wonderful if we could wipe the slate clean?...good day"
Sycamore: "He is so passionate, must be his blood"
Wake up Prof!

Pokemon doesn't need too much improving, X&Y did so much that its hard to ask for more, but I have heard that post game content is very shallow, any truth to that? Also, navigating the central city was a pain in the ass.

Also, Team Flare were the most FABULOUS villains ever!
I think Lysandre had the most evil plot compared to the other pokmeon villains. I would say what it was, but I have no idea how to do the spoiler bars.
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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MrSir231 said:
TizzytheTormentor said:
MrSir231 said:
I felt that X and Y's story was fine, at least for the villain team. Lysandre is actually my favorite Pokemon villain, although battling him could've been more of a challenge.
My problem with him is that he was such an obvious villain and yet Sycamore could never get the hint...
Lysandre: "The weapon was terrible, but it did wipe away the filth...wouldn't it be wonderful if we could wipe the slate clean?...good day"
Sycamore: "He is so passionate, must be his blood"
Wake up Prof!

Pokemon doesn't need too much improving, X&Y did so much that its hard to ask for more, but I have heard that post game content is very shallow, any truth to that? Also, navigating the central city was a pain in the ass.

Also, Team Flare were the most FABULOUS villains ever!
I think Lysandre had the most evil plot compared to the other pokmeon villains. I would say what it was, but I have no idea how to do the spoiler bars.
Check this topic: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.198114-Escapist-User-Guide-to-Posting-Commands

Anyway, I'll never understand Lysandre's plan, or anything like it, for that matter.

"Everything is beautiful, so to preserve it I'm going to destroy it. Except I'll keep alive anyone who can pay me 5 Millions, no matter who, and they'll have to make do in the desolate wasteland that this world will become"... What?
How can anyone with a working brain come up with this as a suitable plan?
 

EyeReaper

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Aug 17, 2011
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You want pokemon to have a better plot, more indepth story, and amazing characters and villains?
Hwll, all we need for that is to get Game Freak to hire whoever writes the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series. Boom, problem solved.

I did love the team flare grunts though. They were amazingly FABULOUS, but yeah, Lysandre was a huge letdown for me too. I mean
Step 1) blow up world, kill all pokemon
step 2)???
step 3)profit!

Also the fact that Team FLARE's leader's best pokemon wasn't even a fire type. What's up with that?
 

Someone Depressing

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Jan 16, 2011
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A more complex storyline. While the Mystery Dungeon games have had more complex and involving stories, the main games..

"Choose your Pokemon, do da gyms, oh noez bad crime coporait corrporaio dpers! Get god in tennis ball, end of game"

Then again, if Nintendo remade Rule of Rose (You remember Rule of Rose? The game with the girl with the dog and the psycho lesbian murderous infants that I had to import and modify my PS2 to play because the ESRB are a bunch of fucking whinny idiots who probably don't even play the games they rate?) into a Pokemon game and nobody noticed, that would be dumb.

Pokemon's stuck in a loophole. If they wanted, they could break out of it. But, really, they'd just rather cater all of their games to people this like.


They have no real reason to move from their RPG throne.
 

soandnb

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Sep 14, 2013
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I didn't really like Team Flare compared to some of the other teams. The reason why is because it felt like Team Flare never really had a presence within Kalos, compared to Team Plasma's presence and Team Rocket's presence within their respective regions.

Team Plasma was all over the place. They were a common conversation topic throughout Unova, with people here and there stating their opinions on Team Plasma. It also seemed to have the most dynamic personality of any group, with members who truly believed in the cause, those who were on the fence, and those who are ex-grunts. It was engaging to see a team with flaws and blips. As you defeated them, more and more people, both citizens and members, started to see things in a different perspective. It felt like you were doing something.

Team Rocket (the second-gen team), while less engaging than Team Plasma, still felt menacing. They were all over the place, causing trouble wherever they were at the time. While their actions didn't amount to one big overarching goal, every time I defeated them at a location, it felt like I was doing something to restore that location to normal.

But Team Flare didn't really feel engaging. I couldn't really take them seriously. Even Lysandre didn't feel serious all the time. It felt like he shoehorned his vision in while talking to him. Furthermore, I don't get much satisfaction from clearing an area out from them. They pull the irritating stunt of achieving whatever shenanigans they intend to do JUST after you defeat the leader of the operation, basically putting all of my effort in vain. This happens THREE TIMES.

Sorry for my little rant. Other ways to make the series better? Make Ice types more powerful. They currently only resist themselves, and are weak to many common types.
 

Buizel91

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Aug 25, 2008
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The things is, they don;t need to do anything with the bad guys or the story.

The story is for kids, keeping them engaged in the game, it's simple because of that 3+ rating...

For us older players, the story is pretty much for easy EXP, as Trainer battles grant more EXP than finding mons in the wild. And with the amount of bad guys to beat, there is plenty easy EXP to be gained.

They could do something different with the gyms, or let us choose, Trainer, Breeder or Co-Ordinator, that would be cool, but X and Y were pretty much perfect, i felt like a kid again playing it.
 

CriticalMiss

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Whilst I agree more story would be nice I'd rather see some changes to the mechanics and gameplay. Such as:

Gym battles being a bit more signficant and difficult. They are supposed to be tough trainers but they're pretty average, maybe give their 'mons higher-than-usual stats for their level and better AI. Maybe also have it so you don't need gym badges to progress as much so you can explore freely and in a less linear way, then come back and face them later so it feels like more of an event.

More interesting evolution. Looking at some of the new pokemon from the last couple of generations I see some that just look like slightly different gen 1 'mons. Maybe they could reboot the series by changing how evolutions work, have a base pokemon and then depending on certain conditions it could potentially evolve in to different things. So have a basic Pidgey-like and if you fight lots of bug types with it it becomes a pure flying type pokemon (with access to more flying moves) but fighting other stuff like water types would make it more likely to become a flying-electric type. You could still keep the vanilla evolutions for the more iconic pokemon, but it would be cool to have some of the variety that Eevee evolutions have but with more critters and not necessarily involving stones. It could also be used to a lesser degree with the vanilla evolutions, using a grass type against fire types could increase that pokemons resistance against fire damage. Not a massive change but one that would allow your level 100 to differ more from someone else's.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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TizzytheTormentor said:
MrSir231 said:
I felt that X and Y's story was fine, at least for the villain team. Lysandre is actually my favorite Pokemon villain, although battling him could've been more of a challenge.
My problem with him is that he was such an obvious villain and yet Sycamore could never get the hint...
Lysandre: "The weapon was terrible, but it did wipe away the filth...wouldn't it be wonderful if we could wipe the slate clean?...good day"
Sycamore: "He is so passionate, must be his blood"
Wake up Prof!

Pokemon doesn't need too much improving, X&Y did so much that its hard to ask for more, but I have heard that post game content is very shallow, any truth to that? Also, navigating the central city was a pain in the ass.

Also, Team Flare were the most FABULOUS villains ever!
Oh, I remember my first time encountering Lysandre, I was at my friend's place at the time and the moment I saw him "I just encountered the main villain". Yeah, he was that obvious.

I actually really liked White's Story and if we could get something similar to that I would be quite happy.

Also I would like to see the game a little more difficult. Elite Four shouldn't be 4 trainers with 4 relatively low level Pokemon in their parties.

CriticalMiss said:
Whilst I agree more story would be nice I'd rather see some changes to the mechanics and gameplay. Such as:

Gym battles being a bit more signficant and difficult. They are supposed to be tough trainers but they're pretty average, maybe give their 'mons higher-than-usual stats for their level and better AI. Maybe also have it so you don't need gym badges to progress as much so you can explore freely and in a less linear way, then come back and face them later so it feels like more of an event.
This is also a good idea, but I'm not sure if they should be completely optional to progress, but you should be able to pick a little more. This is what I liked about Gold and Silver since you could challenge the Kanto trainers whenever you felt like it.