Whatever happened to manners?

[cuddly_tomato]

This thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.149397], among others, made me think. It made me think about how I don't go around being an obnoxious twat towards other human beings simply because I have that ability. Pretty often on forums people make threads, new threads, of topics which have already been and gone before. What is the usual response?

A:- "Welcome to the forums. You might find this particular topic has already been discussed here [link inserted], however if you still have questions or wish to make a point please feel free to bump that thread up."

or

B:- "Look retard we already talked about this 2 years ago. Use the fucking search button and stop wasting everyones time."

Now, if you are at university, and someone approaches you and asks you the way to the biology department, do you say:-

A:- "It's up the first set of stairs there, follow the corridor down, turn left at the bottom, follow that corridor for long enough and you will see some signs"

or

B:- "Look you dozy *****-queen, there are maps posted all over the fucking foyer. Don't you dare come up to me wasting my time anymore."

Why is it that when on the internet people feel they have to behave like complete assholes towards people who are indeed other people. One comment I see coming up frequently is "Nobody has the right to not be offended". But what they are actually saying is "I will continually excersise my right to be an asshole." Just because you have the right to be offensive doesn't mean you have to be offensive, nor does it mean you are smart to be offensive. Where is this... internet sociopathy coming from?

 

[Mcupobob]

Its easier to be a dick to a bunch of words on the internet then being adick to someone in real life.

 

[KarumaK]

Its easier to be a dick to a bunch of words on the internet then being adick to someone in real life.

I beg to differ, on the net you have to have some substance to your words or else you look like a tard. IRL you could be a dick with body language and never put any actual effort into it.

 

[Legion]

Anonymity. People think that as long as they cannot be identified then they can get away with being a prick. The truth is, that most people are jerks, and if you give them the ability to exercise that without consequences then they will gladly do so.

The experiments by Milgram and Zimbardo proved this perfectly.

In real life if you chose to be a prick to someone who asked for directions word would get around and nobody would like you, on the internet it has no effect because you don't have to deal with those people in a real life situation.

 

[Inverse Skies]

There are times when I'd like to know the demographic of exactly what the average age of members on this site are, because (and I'm generalising), as you get older you become more tolerant of people. I know I'm a lot more tolerant of others now in uni than I was in highschool suffering through puberty and a difficult stage in any teenagers life. That could be part of the reason, other than that as it has been said, the anonymity factor is a big part of it, it's always easier to be nasty to someone when you don't have to look them in the eye and see their reaction, because them showing emotion is more likely to make yourself feel guilt. It's by no means the correct way to act, but for some reason people seem to do it.

 

[sky14kemea]

I ate them...

Okay that doesn't make sense, I just woke up. >_>

But I agree, I don't care about annonyminity (or spelling <.< just in case that's wrong) On the internet, I'm just nice to everyone, and I only act like a jerk to people who I feel have earned it.
Now can we all get along and have a group hug? D:

 

[LeonLethality]

I am annoyed at how people will have bad grammar or replace words like "you" with "u" ITS TWO FREAKIN' LETTERS COME ON! anyway >.> I dont mind bad spelling for hard words and punctuation/capitalization is forgivable but not horrid grammar if you can get a point across with good grammar you seem more civilised if you sound like an idiot with your typing nobody takes you seriously

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I am annoyed at how people will have bad grammar or replace words like "you" with "u" ITS TWO FREAKIN' LETTERS COME ON! anyway >.> I dont mind bad spelling for hard words and punctuation/capitalization is forgivable but not horrid grammar if you can get a point across with good grammar you seem more civilised if you sound like an idiot with your typing nobody takes you seriously

My general point was more about the lack of civility that seems to dominate internet social interaction rather than particular annoyances when people use that medium to communicate. So to that end, how do you react to people directly when they use those words? And is it different than you would react if they were seated in front of you?

 

[Audemas]

This thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.149397], among others, made me think. It made me think about how I don't go around being an obnoxious twat towards other human beings simply because I have that ability. Pretty often on forums people make threads, new threads, of topics which have already been and gone before. What is the usual response?

A:- "Welcome to the forums. You might find this particular topic has already been discussed here [link inserted], however if you still have questions or wish to make a point please feel free to bump that thread up."

or

B:- "Look retard we already talked about this 2 years ago. Use the fucking search button and stop wasting everyones time."

Now, if you are at university, and someone approaches you and asks you the way to the biology department, do you say:-

A:- "It's up the first set of stairs there, follow the corridor down, turn left at the bottom, follow that corridor for long enough and you will see some signs"

or

B:- "Look you dozy *****-queen, there are maps posted all over the fucking foyer. Don't you dare come up to me wasting my time anymore."

Why is it that when on the internet people feel they have to behave like complete assholes towards people who are indeed other people. One comment I see coming up frequently is "Nobody has the right to not be offended". But what they are actually saying is "I will continually excersise my right to be an asshole." Just because you have the right to be offensive doesn't mean you have to be offensive, nor does it mean you are smart to be offensive. Where is this... internet sociopathy coming from?

I believe that manners and acting like a decent person went out the window as soon as the internet became available. I believe that Penny Arcade has a comic that can explain it better with John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

 

[DreadfulSorry]

Why is it that when on the internet people feel they have to behave like complete assholes towards people who are indeed other people. One comment I see coming up frequently is "Nobody has the right to not be offended". But what they are actually saying is "I will continually excersise my right to be an asshole." Just because you have the right to be offensive doesn't mean you have to be offensive, nor does it mean you are smart to be offensive. Where is this... internet sociopathy coming from?

I think it's the total lack of consequences for a person's actions that causes this lack of manners. And it doesn't stop at just being a dick on internet forums: so called "cyber bullying" is a huge problem that's growing every day. As someone who's been a victim, as well as someone who has seen it happen to others, this new phenomenon CANNOT be taken lightly. People who are angry or frustrated about something don't have to say anything to someone's face anymore; they're doing it through the internet, because there is less of a chance that there will be any consequences for their actions. Seriously, the biggest reprimand someone could get on this site for example is a permanent ban. Big whoop. But just because something is said in HTML doesn't make it any less upsetting or frightening.
So, to sum my argument up, I don't think it's just the anonymity that allows people to be ass holes on the internet (though I do think that's a part of it). I think the main problem is the complete lack of repercussions for someone stepping over the line of tact.

 

[Avaholic03]

Having good manners is a sign of respect. If you don't respect someone, it doesn't matter if it's online or IRL, you won't have good manners towards them. Simple as that.

 

[Kollega]

Everything has already been said. Anonymity. You can't get beaten over the internet,so only select few remain polite.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

People who are angry or frustrated about something don't have to say anything to someone's face anymore; they're doing it through the internet, because there is less of a chance that there will be any consequences for their actions.

This is kind what I was trying, and failing, to get at. This is my mystery. I was taught to respect other people not because there would be consequences if I didn't, but simply because I would make the world a better place if I did. When there is a real need for aggression that is fair enough, but I honestly don't see that need in most circumstances where this problem is arising. Maybe I am just projecting my own person code of ethics onto everyone else but why do people need to fear consequences to prevent them turning into dicks? If we were to get rid of all police and prisons, would these same individuals instantly go on a killing/raping/pillaging spree?

You touched on something else which is important, why doesn't anyone actually take this seriously? A racist remark shouted in the street... an idiot security guard preventing you from entering a store... a sexist lout who made a tactless remark... in real life all of these would be (and should be) simply ignored, same as they are on the internet. However if you had someone coming to your house and yelling racist abuse every day, if you had to deal with cashiers of a particular store never serving you because of your race/gender/culture, or if you were being sexually harassed, law enforcement would step in. On internet, the response seems to be "get a thicker skin".

Bullshit. People should not have to adapt to accept abuse from other people just because they have found a method of getting away with it.

 

[Abedeus]

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, GET OFF MY BACK!

I'm quite happy with being a jerk irl. I don't like people, so if I'm a jerk to them, they won't like me neither. And we're all happy.

 

[Armored Prayer]

I don't know about everyone else, but I try my best to be well polite and mannered.

Occasionally, a troll will push me to the edge and I go ballistic but those are rare.

 

[Talendra]

I beg to differ, on the net you have to have some substance to your words or else you look like a tard. IRL you could be a dick with body language and never put any actual effort into it.

True, but on the internet you don't really run the risk of someone getting sick of your shit and beating the crap out of you for being a dick.

 

[ae86gamer]

I ate them...

Okay that doesn't make sense, I just woke up. >_>

But I agree, I don't care about annonyminity (or spelling <.< just in case that's wrong) On the internet, I'm just nice to everyone, and I only act like a jerk to people who I feel have earned it.
Now can we all get along and have a group hug? D:

No hug. >:[

[sup]Just kidding. *hugs*[/sup]

OT: I try to be kind, but certain people do have the tendency to push my, and other peoples, buttons.

 

[oppp7]

Its easier to be a dick to a bunch of words on the internet then being adick to someone in real life.

This. Actually, I'm not a dick to people online most of the time. Or in real-life.

 

[Baby Tea]

I was taught to respect other people not because there would be consequences if I didn't, but simply because I would make the world a better place if I did.

Exactly! It wasn't about 'what will happen if you're a dick', it was 'Why be a dick at all?'.
My mom had this saying whenever I was acting up as a child: 'Hey. Be normal.'
Would you just love to say that to half the world? Hey! Just be normal. It always made me think about my actions whenever she said that. What was I acting like? Was this not normal? And as I got older, I added a few more questions: Am I helping anything by doing this? Are my actions/words worth the point I'm trying to get across? Am I wasting my time?

I've learned a lot about holding my tongue, and a lot about 'just being normal'.
I love to watch my nephew being talking to by my brother, as my brother appreciated my mom's saying as well. He'll say to his son 'Hey. What's your problem? Be normal.' And this 5 year old boy will stop, think for a second, and then just be normal. He's friendly, polite, and loves to play and run around. He's a normal kid.

I wish I could say those on the internet were half as well behaved as him.

 

[Splyth]

People who are angry or frustrated about something don't have to say anything to someone's face anymore; they're doing it through the internet, because there is less of a chance that there will be any consequences for their actions.

This is kind what I was trying, and failing, to get at. This is my mystery. I was taught to respect other people not because there would be consequences if I didn't, but simply because I would make the world a better place if I did. When there is a real need for aggression that is fair enough, but I honestly don't see that need in most circumstances where this problem is arising. Maybe I am just projecting my own person code of ethics onto everyone else but why do people need to fear consequences to prevent them turning into dicks? If we were to get rid of all police and prisons, would these same individuals instantly go on a killing/raping/pillaging spree?

You touched on something else which is important, why doesn't anyone actually take this seriously? A racist remark shouted in the street... an idiot security guard preventing you from entering a store... a sexist lout who made a tactless remark... in real life all of these would be (and should be) simply ignored, same as they are on the internet. However if you had someone coming to your house and yelling racist abuse every day, if you had to deal with cashiers of a particular store never serving you because of your race/gender/culture, or if you were being sexually harassed, law enforcement would step in. On internet, the response seems to be "get a thicker skin".

Bullshit. People should not have to adapt to accept abuse from other people just because they have found a method of getting away with it.

I'm like you. Civility costs you nothing and words go along way. The reason that the whole thicker skin thing happens is because there is really nothing that can be done to them. They have the right to be assholes the same way we have the right to choose to be polite. But it's interesting to note that the more rage and rant the less sensible their points get. Actually the start repeating themselves. Also there are some people who feel empowered by causing a flame war. My vote is do what we do in real life. Don't dignify the argument with a response. ignore them, let them rant and rave if they choose but until they have something useful to say don even waste your time.

Some people don't need consequences to do the right thing. But most of us need some sort of cause and effect to happen for us to go. "Oh let's not do that again" As to why, my guess is it's how we learn. If we do this than this happens, and we judge if we want to do that again.