What's the appeal of turn based combat?

[Jinx_Dragon]

In an RPG, I don't see the appeal.

In a strategy game, it makes battles more like a chess match than an actual battle. Depending on the game, this can be a good or a bad thing.

Seconded.

I like turn base strategy games because they are like a complicated version of chess and a handful of them are quite well done. Sadly most tend to become 'build the biggest thing you can and wipe them out with it' and that makes it quite difficult to enjoy the genre completely. At least in chess match a knight, bishop or even a pawn can take out a queen... though given modern rules when you get a chance to upgrade a pawn it is always a queen these days.

JRPGs are not a chess game, but just slowed down squad based combat between cut screens. Can't really say even more then that.

 

[TheFacelessOne]

Hate it.

Though, (if this counts), I love in WH40K tabletop game.

 

[darkkan2125]

going afk when ur too lazy to press pause

 

[Baralak]

IF you want a PC turn-based RPG, I'd recommend Septerra Core. It's turn based, PC only, and pretty cheap nowadays.

 

[The Random One]

It's just a matter of liking. Strictly speaking, what's the difference between turn based combat - you press A a number of time to select FIGHT, ATTACK, MURDEROUS MURDER - and then your character goes and stabs a dude and pressing A once making your character stab a dude?

Some people have troubles with certain control schemes, and that's just personal taste. I, for one, can't control my character worth shit on the original Resident Evil's, I can't get my head around first person control third person camera. I have no problem doing that on the first two GTAs, where except for the fact that you're in a car it's the exact same thing.

If you can't get your head around it, you can't get your head around it. I recommend whatching someone else playing them. Watching other people play a game is an excellent way to enjoy a game you couldn't play yourse. (I admit doing so for 40 hours or so might be jarring.) If not, try to meet them in the middle of the road, with games like Tales of Symphonia (in which the combat sections are a mix between a fighting game and RPG combat) or Chrono Trigger (which at least doesn't bring you to a pocket dimension to fight, and has a pretty nice story to drag you along).

 

[CmdrGoob]

Turn based combat just simply isn't any more strategic than real time combat, but is significantly slower, clunkier, less satisfying and less immersive.

I don't get it either.

 

[Baneat]

What's the appeal of chess?

 

[chunkeymonke]

i dont get it either
i mean i saw a video of final fant XIII and i couldnt tell what the fuck was going on
i mean really you could play turn based with one hand its just to boring
at least in WRPGs you can do shit other than just click around a fucking menu

 

[CmdrGoob]

I see plenty of people claiming it's more strategic. I honestly have no idea how they could back this up.

Even the humble FPS is more strategically interesting - the difference between shotguns/SMGs/assault rifles/sniper rifles/grenades creates more real tactical variety than all the samey fire/lightning/attack/whatever options (which are all basically the same except for the animation and the arbitrary weakness it targets) in turn based JRPGs. Then compound that with all the considerations of terrain, cover, range, movement, positioning, flanking, suprise and stealth and it's totally clear to me that even your average shooter is more strategic than turn based combat.

Or consider real time with pause systems as exemplified by DA:O. The skill options are every bit as strategic as a turn based combat, you can pause to think any time you want, and terrain and positioning (using chokepoints and LOS) actually make a big difference, unlike many turn based systems. It's easily just as strategic, but it's faster and flows better and is more immersive.

 

[RJ Dalton]

I think there are ways you could make a turn based system work and there's lots of things you can do with it, but its situational. TBC works well when strategy is involved, and you plot out the battles tactically. The problem with JRPGs nowadays, though, is that it's become so much about the spectacle. The attacks can take minutes to complete themselves and all you can do is sit and watch. As awesome as the cut-scenes may be to watch, when you have to watch the same cutscene over and over again, the repetition grinds on you. And then a lot of JRPGs just don't make use of what the TBC can do and it's nothing more than wacking each other back and forth with no tactics whatsoever. That said, some do it really well. Final Fantasy Tactics (the original one) was really good. Yahtzee mentioned Crono Trigger (which I'll vouch for) and Final Fantasy VI (I also liked, but I don't feel like it made the most of what you can do with TBC). The Lunar series was another I enjoyed, but that's really rare and hard to find (again, didn't do the combat as well as it could have, but it was an interesting shake-up from the usual combat style).
It's really how the game uses it that makes it fun or not.

 

[John Doe123]

It's good because you have to think to fight the people. (I don't think Final Fantasy should be turn based. It's not strategic enough to use that system.)

 

[JEBWrench]

for strategy: Lets you think. Tends to be more strategic than Real Time. Seriously, play Fire Emblem, and then come back and tell me how an RTS is more strategic than that.

For RPGs: Let's you plan. Like, "Do I buff this guy, or heal him?", without putting pressure on the player.

Onyx speaks the truth.

I prefer turn-based combat because I have shoddy reflexes, but love tactical battles.

 

[Steppin Razor]

I see plenty of people claiming it's more strategic. I honestly have no idea how they could back this up.

Even the humble FPS is more strategically interesting - the difference between shotguns/SMGs/assault rifles/sniper rifles/grenades creates more real tactical variety than all the samey fire/lightning/attack/whatever options (which are all basically the same except for the animation and the arbitrary weakness it targets) in turn based JRPGs.

If tactical variety is choosing between using a rifle or a shotgun, then changing your weapon to a bow instead of a sword against flying enemies in a JRPG is also tactical variety. Adding more variety on top of weapon choice is the specific attack you're going to use. FPS games typically have aim and shoot, that's it. JRPGs have attack, defend, double/triple/quad/you get the picture -strike, elemental strikes, instant death attacks with low chance of working, critical attacks with low chance of hitting, super fast strikes, incredibly slow and powerful attacks, area of effect attacks, attacks that hit all enemies, status affecting attacks, attacks that cost HP or MP/SP to use, the list goes on.

You claiming that they're all basically the same except for the animation and weaknesses they target shows a complete lack of knowledge of JRPGs at all.

Edit: Note that I haven't even gone into the use of Magic yet. That much variety without even resorting to the use of thunderbolts and fireballs.

Then compound that with all the considerations of terrain, cover, range, movement, positioning, flanking, suprise and stealth and it's totally clear to me that even your average shooter is more strategic than turn based combat.

Movement and positioning are covered heavily in Fire Emblem and Disgaea. Fucking it up in those games will put you at a huge disadvantage. Taking enemies by surprise has been included in a number of JRPGs, the most recent of which is FFXIII. It is also a virtual non-issue as sneaking around is almost exclusively an FPS concept.

Range falls entirely into the realms of player choice as someone that likes sniping will always fire from long range whereas an smg/shotgun user will try and charge in as close as possible. Terrain only really factors into the FPS argument when you're talking about cover and sneaking, other than that it has almost no effect at all. Dirt, move at full speed. Grass, move at full speed. Sandy beach, move a little slower still move at full speed. Knee deep water, move a little slower STILL moving at full speed.

 

[Weaver]

Last Remnant is NOT a good way to get into the genre, not that it's not a good game, it's just very unconventional.

JRPGs have lots of variation but if you just have a PC the genre more or less doesn't exist past emulation.
For turn based try Final Fantasy 6, Lost Odyssey, Earthbound or the Mario RPGs
If you really hate the combat there are plenty of action JRPGs around, try Kingdom Hearts, Tales of Vesperia, The World Ends With You or Star Ocean

Actually edit and hope you read. Turn Based is fine but every Final Fantasy since 4 has had something called Active Time Battle and it's a meter that goes up over time and when it's full you pick your attack, you can usually speed up or slow down the meter and set it so the monsters do their thing while you pick, it's quite fun and fast.

May I ask if you have any consoles or handhelds like a DS, it'd be easier to find games if you did.

I like TLR quite a bit, but I totally agree with you; as a first JRPG it's not a very good choice. Firstly, the combat is pretty damn insane. I remember the first time I entered combat in that game - I had NO fucking clue what to do - and with good reason, the game didn't even have a tutorial yet. I just smashed "attack" on the menus and words like "INTERCEPTION" and "FLANK" appeared (this, of course, makes sense later).

IMO OP you should go back to Chrono Trigger and FF3 and games like that. Though I can't openly recommend emulating those games. wink.

 

[Weaver]

for strategy: Lets you think. Tends to be more strategic than Real Time. Seriously, play Fire Emblem, and then come back and tell me how an RTS is more strategic than that..

Quite easily! I present to you:

Spoiler

 

[Steppin Razor]

IMO OP you should go back to Chrono Trigger and FF3 and games like that. Though I can't openly recommend emulating those games. wink.

*cough* Nintendo DS *cough*

That's exactly what you meant.... right?

 

[Weaver]

IMO OP you should go back to Chrono Trigger and FF3 and games like that. Though I can't openly recommend emulating those games. wink.

*cough* Nintendo DS *cough*

That's exactly what you meant.... right?

Yep! Though wasn't the FF3 on the DS a remake?

 

[Kiriona]

I like turn based combat because it forces me to come up with strategies. In other words, it makes me think. Though I admit, it's also rewarding when you can just go running around obliterating everything in your path. It's a nice way to relieve stress. Either system is fun in it's own way.

 

[Steppin Razor]

Deleted double post