What's the appeal with first-person gameplay?

[skywolfblue]

I really prefer third person as well.

So much spatial awareness is lost in first person, and you don't get to see your character's nifty new gear.

 

[Nazulu]

And its just as clear that the joke went over your head.

Heh, I guess I found it so unfunny I thought you maybe going onto something else. No offense.

To be fair, the kind of gamer who quotes Yahtzee on things where Yahtzee clearly didn't know what he was talking about isn't the kind of gamer to be able to recognize it. Anyone who thinks FPS games actually boil down to that has either never played one, or at most played the campaign (not the multiplayer) of some modern military shooter before writing off the whole genre. Even then you'd probably have to do it on the easiest difficulty, to make things like flanking and grenades unnecessary.

Or, I was generalising, not actually saying that to be offensive by just mentioning the core mechanic. I was also thinking outside that sub genre but whatever.

 

[Vigormortis]

I find it makes for more precise control, especially when using a mouse and keyboard. Third person can sometimes feel like I'm wrestling with the controls of an RC car. Also, I find first person better in games where I want to, or am required to, examine the environment closely because I won't have a character taking up a large chunk of screen real estate and getting in the way.

That said, I don't really have any preference one way or the other.

Pretty much my opinion in a nut shell.

I like a wide variety of camera choices. I don't whine about being stuck with one or t'other. Though, I generally prefer first-person.

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Really, I think it comes down to spacial awareness. Many of the people I've met who fervently dislike the first-person perspective often have issue with spacial awareness. They have a hard time creating mental images of the space their character is in and even more trouble with keeping track of where their character is in relation to the objects in their surroundings.

This isn't a failing on their part. I mean no offense. It's even understandably difficult given our reliance on sight, sound, and touch to form a proper image of our surrounding environment. It's just that I've found that this difficulty is often a major contributing factor to ones disdain or discomfort with the first-person perspective.

I've never had issue with it, personally. Quite the opposite in fact. (example: I enjoy jumping/platforming challenges in first-person games. Even in games like Mirror's Edge or the Xen maps in Half-Life)

Even so, I can appreciate why some would not like a first-person perspective. They likely have the same "disconnected" feeling I, at times, have when playing a third-person game.

But at any rate, why are there "camps" on the matter? Going for one of these as TEH ONE TRU WAI, YO!!11! seems like it shouldn't be happening. Like, at all.

Because, this is the internet. And on the internet many people suffer from what I like to call, I-Don't-Like-This-So-How-Can-Anyone-Like-It Syndrome.

I've heard there's been major progress on a treatment. I believe it's currently in an experimental injection form, but they're getting close to making it into a widely available pill form.

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On a side note:

I have to add that the first-person perspective almost never suffers from something virtually all third-person, free camera based games suffer from -
No poorly placed view angles.

You never have to worry about your camera view suddenly shifting to an awkward position because it couldn't clip past a wall or something.

This is one of the primary reasons I prefer the first-person perspective. I control what my character is looking at.

 

[Miss G.]

It could be as Yahtzee said, just a play style that's really simple, you click on the baddies till they go away.

Isn't this basically every game ever?

Is it? I don't think so. I'm sure there are other just as simple play styles but every game ever?

You mean Diablo?

We're clearly talking about first person shooters.

If you can put every game that used the first person perspective into a simple killing game than it is legit for me to summarise all gaming as an idiotic killing fest.

And no, we aren't clearly talking about FPS. We are talking about games in the first person perspective.

I'm glad someone read the topic I posted clearly. I wanna know why the perspective itself is so popular in gaming, not FPS, as I mentioned in my opening post I don't care for them... or shooters in general. My country has never had a war or a gun culture to make these games that appealing.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

And its just as clear that the joke went over your head.

Heh, I guess I found it so unfunny I thought you maybe going onto something else. No offense.

To be fair, the kind of gamer who quotes Yahtzee on things where Yahtzee clearly didn't know what he was talking about isn't the kind of gamer to be able to recognize it. Anyone who thinks FPS games actually boil down to that has either never played one, or at most played the campaign (not the multiplayer) of some modern military shooter before writing off the whole genre. Even then you'd probably have to do it on the easiest difficulty, to make things like flanking and grenades unnecessary.

Or, I was generalising, not actually saying that to be offensive by just mentioning the core mechanic. I was also thinking outside that sub genre but whatever.

The problem is that once you go outside the subgenre, it becomes even less true. I mean, try "clicking on other players to win" in an old school Arena FPS. You can't do it, because the guns all have weird properties that you have to work with. It's kind of like Yahtzee's deal with multiplayer. He hates multiplayer games because he hates people, which makes it really obnoxious when gamers start spouting his justifications like they're the gospel truth about videogames.

Basically, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people quote him on stuff like that. Most reviewers have biases against certain genres. On one notable occasion, I actually bought a game[footnote]An old school first person dungeon crawler for the GBA called "Mazes of Fate." It's first person like Wizardry and Eye of the Beholder, though, not like Doom.[/footnote] based on overwhelmingly negative reviews... because the people reviewing it were complaining about features of the subgenre, they just wanted it to be a totally different kind of game. Did not regret it at all. Yahtzee's complaints about a lot of things are like that, he's whining that it's a style of game he doesn't like, and usually doesn't even understand. It could be the best game in the world, but if it either forces him to interact with other people or otherwise hits one of his blind spots, he's gonna trash it, and I mean legitimately trashing it, not just for comedy like he does in pretty much all of his reviews.

 

[DarklordKyo]

Spoiler: For dudebros, it's the power fantasy of wielding a giant, powerful gun while being called MASTER SEARGEANT SHOOTER PERSON

For the rest of us, it can be quite immersive when done properly.

 

[Foolery]

I'm a 3rd-person kinda girl and I was just wondering why it's so popular. If there's a character on the box or one you get to create I would like to see what I payed for. I don't care for shooters, but now it's even in newer JRPGs that I would've otherwise been all over nowadays.

Which JRPGs? Like Etrian Odyssey? Or Shin Megami Tensei Soul Hackers? Soul Hackers was originally released in 1997, so the style makes sense. Like an old-school PC dungeon-crawler. But yeah, I also enjoy the third person perspective. Maybe you should get a few action-adventure games. They tend to favour third-person.

 

[Miss G.]

Those are the main ones that I meant; ATLUS has some great looking JRPGs (I really did want the recent Etrian Odyssey and one other SMT handheld title and Class of Heroes) that are in first person and I am saddened that I can't play them because of it. The perspective makes me feel like I'm/my character's not even there.

 

[Foolery]

Those are the main ones that I meant; ATLUS has some great looking JRPGs (I really did want the recent Etrian Odyssey and one other SMT handheld title and Class of Heroes) that are in first person and I am saddened that I can't play them because of it. The perspective makes me feel like I'm/my character's not even there.

Sadly, that goes with the nature of the game. Traditional dungeon crawlers are intended to have labyrinth-style environments. Some even have it stated right in the name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_the_Labyrinth
But I can empathize a bit with you. I used get lost often playing Wizardry.

 

[DoPo]

I-Don't-Like-This-So-How-Can-Anyone-Like-It Syndrome.

Yes, truly IDNLTSHCALIS is a scourge on our society.

No poorly placed view angles.

Oh god PPVA - the flashbacks! The horrible horrible flashbacks! Yeah, Any time I am reminded of this problem, I immediately get a very clear picture in my head of it happening. Two, actually - one was in Prince of Persia 2 or 3 where the camera occasionally decided to be even more unhelpful and switch into cinematic mode, instead of following the character. One of the places where it did it was a really awkward jump where you had to jump diagonally but in a very precise manner, or you wouldn't make the jump. And on PC with a shitty keyboard it was DAMN HARD to make that jump. Took me about an hour to clear it. The second scenario I picture is Legacy of Kain: Defiance. It is very crisp - I know EAXACTLY where it is - playing as Raziel, in Vorador's mansion, the backgarden, thingie that has a path that leads to the tomb. There, you have to jump on a little stonehenge-like formation, shift into the spectral realm (where the stones grow upwards) and then jump across to a broken window. Normally - pretty easy. With cinematic camera - not as east. With the shitty keyboard - pretty frustrating. WHEN THE FUCKING CAMERA CHANGES ANGLE/POSITION MID JUMP AND YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO IMMEDIATELY REACT TO THE NEW DIRECTION - FUCKING DISGUSTING. Yeah, it deserves the all caps - that PoP jump took me an hour to clear, well the LoKD jump took more than that, way more - over a day. I was getting ready to go and borrow a different keyboard - with mine, if you pressed too many keys at once, it just dropped all input. Which is a problem, as you have to hold down Space to glide, and if you release it, you drop down. Which is what happened. A lot.

 

[votemarvel]

Another weird thing for me is that developers create these fantastic looking worlds but then limit the gamers view of it.

When I first played Fallout 3 I thought it was a very bland looking game when I got out of the Vault. Yet when I switched to the third person view and could see how all the landscape fitted together I was very impressed.

This is actually a problem that seems to be becoming more of an issue in third person games of late as well. They are pulling the camera in to such a limited field of view that things just become a chore. "Remember Me" is a terrible game for this as finding memories relies on visual clues but because of the camera being so close in, things can be more difficult to find than they should be.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Personally, I find 1st person to be less immersive than 3rd person. In real life, when moving we're getting all kinds of sensory feedback beyond sound and sight, this is completely gone in 1st person. In 3rd person I at least get visual feedback on what is happening to my character and can translate it to what it might feel like in regards to touch and proprioception. Also, it helps me identify with my character more since he's more than just a floating camera with a gun...

this for sure, peripheral feedback is one of my biggest strengths in senses in real life, and it bugs the hell out of me in games when i don't get that. (not to mention i can obviously see what is going on by my feet without looking around, in an fps that never happens, therefore most jumps/walking is all about trusting you know where the edge/rocks/etc are rather than being able to see it.

granted i play games just fine in first person, but i definitely prefer third person greatly. (however, alot of this is opinion, many people prefer first person, which is just fine.)

 

[porous_shield]

I think for the most part, first person is done well in games, whereas in contrast, 3rd person is often done horribly. I wouldn't even be able to count the situations where I've been forced to make a jump or avoid an obstacle while not being able to see a damn thing because of a wonky camera that got stuck on something or is forcing me to watch from a useless angle or zoomed in way to far A huge contributor to my death count in a game is when the camera spins around needlessly while your platforming, fighting a boss, or just running down the hall. Then there are game designers who decide to create some artificial difficultly by locking the camera into a position where you're running towards it and inevitably something is chasing you. There are just so many ways the camera screws up that is beyond your control in third person that just doesn't happen in first person.

 

[infohippie]

It adds immersion, it makes exploration more comfortable (for example: searching a room for items), and it's great for shooting.

Unless you play shooters or RPGs that allow for free exploration (either hub-based like Deus Ex, or sandbox like Skyrim), you might not see the appeal, as this is the king games where it works best.

Pretty much this, plus it means you don't have to deal with an oft-troublesome camera. First person view lets you easily use the same mouse movements for both turning and camera control rather than having to deal with them separately. I usually prefer first person view since I prefer sandbox games like Skyrim or Minecraft and these kinds of environments are where first person view really shines. Both these games offer a third person view if you want to use it, but they are almost unplayable in that view.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

A game has to be done a certain way in order for me to be immersed via 1st person. I don't like the feeling of being stuck to the center of the screen. Many of the people who are into 1st person are PC gamers, and I confess that I'm not into PC gaming - not 1st person games anyways.

Like I said, a game has to be done well in order for me to enjoy it in 1st person. Zeno Clash Ultimate had me hooked because the combat was done so well.


If you can get past the weirdness of the world, it's a great game, and it's inexpensive. For me, it was like a 1st person shooter mixed with Punch Out. Super solid feeling in the punches.

I'm discovering that I cater to console/arcade/indie games rather than 1st person type PC games which seem to be dominating the gaming landscape at the moment. It took me a long time to figure this out, but PC games have the same feeling largely because of the way you interface with them - keyboard and mouse vs. controller or joystick. I can't stand using a keyboard and mouse.

I hear you Miss G. You may not be a PC gamer is all.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I find it makes for more precise control, especially when using a mouse and keyboard. Third person can sometimes feel like I'm wrestling with the controls of an RC car. Also, I find first person better in games where I want to, or am required to, examine the environment closely because I won't have a character taking up a large chunk of screen real estate and getting in the way.

That said, I don't really have any preference one way or the other.

Pretty much this.

I find first person games to be much more precise overall. Mostly this has to do with the fact that the character's body doesn't have to be animated, and therefore they don't have to move in a way that makes sense from an outside perspective.

As an example, if you think about it, when you're playing a third person shooter and you need to shoot someone, when aiming your gun there's always a fraction of a second delay while your character shoulders his weapon before you can fire. While that usually isn't a big deal, it becomes EXTREMELY noticeable when playing against other people online. FPS games don't have to have that animation (though some do), which makes you react quicker and more precisely in them.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

Having the character on the screen helps me better understand where I am in relation to the environment and helps me see more of my actions in battle. Also, we live life in 1st person; in a game I'd like to get away from that as much as possible. I don't wanna feel like I'm just a floating camera with a set of hands holding a weapon as it's very jarring to me when my brother tells me to try it in some of the titles I play that have the option.

Yes this is sometimes how I feel. Dragon's Dogma is currently scratching my old school itch. 3rd person is my preference for sure.

 

[Nazulu]

The problem is that once you go outside the subgenre, it becomes even less true. I mean, try "clicking on other players to win" in an old school Arena FPS. You can't do it, because the guns all have weird properties that you have to work with. It's kind of like Yahtzee's deal with multiplayer. He hates multiplayer games because he hates people, which makes it really obnoxious when gamers start spouting his justifications like they're the gospel truth about videogames.

Basically, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people quote him on stuff like that. Most reviewers have biases against certain genres. On one notable occasion, I actually bought a game[footnote]An old school first person dungeon crawler for the GBA called "Mazes of Fate." It's first person like Wizardry and Eye of the Beholder, though, not like Doom.[/footnote] based on overwhelmingly negative reviews... because the people reviewing it were complaining about features of the subgenre, they just wanted it to be a totally different kind of game. Did not regret it at all. Yahtzee's complaints about a lot of things are like that, he's whining that it's a style of game he doesn't like, and usually doesn't even understand. It could be the best game in the world, but if it either forces him to interact with other people or otherwise hits one of his blind spots, he's gonna trash it, and I mean legitimately trashing it, not just for comedy like he does in pretty much all of his reviews.

Yahtzee, Yahtzee, Yahtzee, Yahtzee, Yahtzee, pet peeve.

So you wouldn't have become sensitive to what I wrote if I didn't say Yahtzee's name, that's all I got out of this. It's way off topic and I don't care for it.