What's the criteria for a New Nintendo IP?

[themistermanguy]

We've seen it before. "Nintendo doesn't have new IPs" lists new IPs "they don't count because handhelds/eShop/AAA/Potatoes". It seems like people know this argument is bullshit, so they try and create some contrived checklist in order for an IP to be approved so they can be right. So what exactly is the criteria here? It has to be made by Nintendo, not published from an out-house developer? That's like saying Codename: Kids Next Door isn't a Cartoon Network original series because it was produced by Curious Pictures and not Cartoon Network Studios. Everyone knows damn well it's a CN original. Cartoon Network commissioned it's production, they paid for it's production, they own the copyright to it, it was created specificaly FOR Cartoon Network.

Same with something like Sin & Punishment. Nintendo didn't develop the game wholly, but they commissioned it to be made, they funded development, they own the copyright, they co-developed the game. It's their property, it was created FOR them. Therefore, Sin & Punishment is a Nintendo IP.

Also, people feel they need to discount handhelds, downloadable games, and niche games because it needs to AAA and recieve Mario and Zelda level of Marketing. Ah yes, modern gaming, where gaming has become less about enjoying the product and more about looking cool playing it, and having the company plaster it's existence everywhere you go. Look, a good game is a good game, who cares if it's not on a console, isn't a retail game, or doesn't have a AAA budget or marketing campaign. What matters is whether or not you enjoy the game, and if you do, that's all that should matter.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Here's the thing... I would like a new Nintendo action adventure or platformer... that's not Zelda or Mario. I want some fresh characters and settings.

That's what I assume people mean when they say 'Nintendo just makes the same games over and over'. Even when they make a new game like a fighter, or a racer, or a puzzle game, it'll just be wearing the skin of the same old IP. It'll either be Mario, Zelda, Kirby, or Donkey Kong themed, or a mixture of those. And the IP's that they have they hardly ever bother to shake up even a little, they're just completely rusted shut in an iconic stasis.

 

[themistermanguy]

Here's the thing... I would like a new Nintendo action adventure or platformer... that's not Zelda or Mario. I want some fresh characters and settings.

That's what I assume people mean when they say 'Nintendo just makes the same games over and over'. Even when they make a new game like a fighter, or a racer, or a puzzle game, it'll just be wearing the skin of the same old IP. It'll either be Mario, Zelda, Kirby, or Donkey Kong themed, or a mixture of those. And the IP's that they have they hardly ever bother to shake up even a little, they're just completely rusted shut in an iconic stasis.

First, http://playeressence.com/nintendo-has-made-71-brand-new-franchises-since-2001/

Second, Nintendo franchises DO change. Are you going to sit there and Say Super Mario Galaxy is the same as Super Mario 3D World, or Skyward Sword is the same as ALBTW? However, changes in some games are more subtle than others.

 

[Dragonbums]

The irony of the whole "New IP" thing is that they say everyone else makes new IP's all the time except Nintendo and yet when it comes down to diversity in AAA games as a whole those same people just say "I'm tired of shooters all day". So it's basically that you got one end of the spectrum where Nintendo games use the same characters repeatedly, but the underlying mechanics themselves are different enough that you can tell which game is which, and on the other side of the spectrum you have "different characters" that are slapped into basically the same plots, stories, and gameplays.

Oddly enough though when Nintendo does come out with new IP, it's either not a "real" IP (like what has happened to Nintendogs, Wii Fit, Dillon, etc." or we simply like to ignore it with the excuse of "it wasn't interesting" or some shit. So you know, they can't exactly win.

I mean, Splatoon has been looking better and better with each trailer, and more people were apt to talk about how early in development they were going to have Mario characters and chose not to do that or how the game is just another shooter than, you know, actually talk about how the game is a new IP.

 

[Casual Shinji]

First, http://playeressence.com/nintendo-has-made-71-brand-new-franchises-since-2001/

Well, I haven't heard of half of those games. So either they weren't very martketable, or Nintendo didn't put in any effort to market them.

Second, Nintendo franchises DO change. Are you going to sit there and Say Super Mario Galaxy is the same as Super Mario 3D World, or Skyward Sword is the same as ALBTW? However, changes in some games are more subtle than others.

It depends... In Galaxy and 3D World, do you play as Mario in the Mushroom Kingdom and jump on goombas, collect coins, mushrooms, fire flowers, and fight Bowser and/or his kids to save Peach or some other female hostage? And in Skyward Sword and ALBW, do you play as Link starting out in a small town, who then through some disturbance gets thrust into a quest involving the Triforce, the Master Sword, saving Zelda, and defeating Ganon?

If the answer is yes, then that has become pretty bog standard at this point.

 

[themistermanguy]

First, http://playeressence.com/nintendo-has-made-71-brand-new-franchises-since-2001/

Well, I haven't heard of half of those games. So either they weren't very martketable, or Nintendo didn't put in any effort to market them.

Second, Nintendo franchises DO change. Are you going to sit there and Say Super Mario Galaxy is the same as Super Mario 3D World, or Skyward Sword is the same as ALBTW? However, changes in some games are more subtle than others.

It depends... In Galaxy and 3D World, do you play as Mario in the Mushroom Kingdom and jump on goombas, collect coins, mushrooms, fire flowers, and fight Bowser and/or his kids to save Peach or some other female hostage? And in Skyward Sword and ALBW, do you play as Link starting out in a small town, who then through some disturbance gets thrust into a quest involving the Triforce, the Master Sword, saving Zelda, and defeating Ganon?

If the answer is yes, then that has become pretty bog standard at this point.

I'm talking about the mechanics. Galaxy plays NOTHING like 3D World same with SS and ALBW.

 

[False Nobility]

The irony of the whole "New IP" thing is that they say everyone else makes new IP's all the time except Nintendo and yet when it comes down to diversity in AAA games as a whole those same people just say "I'm tired of shooters all day". So it's basically that you got one end of the spectrum where Nintendo games use the same characters repeatedly, but the underlying mechanics themselves are different enough that you can tell which game is which, and on the other side of the spectrum you have "different characters" that are slapped into basically the same plots, stories, and gameplays.

Could not have said it better myself. Wind Waker and Skyward Sword are more different from each other than COD and Battlefield. That's what makes nintendo work. But other than random ideas on the 3DS it has been a while since a new series kicked up some S.T.E.A.M. (I'm so subtle.)

 

[Sleepy Sol]

I think most of the people complaining that Nintendo never changes or attempts to make new IPs are rather occupied with not buying or playing their games for themselves, to be honest.

I mean, I'm content with just playing about every good game I can. My PS4, Vita, 3DS, and Steam make for a pretty well-rounded selection of games. If Bloodborne didn't exist I probably would have gotten a Wii U instead of a PS4 because I feel like Nintendo is the only company out of the bigguns that wants to take risks anymore, even if a number of them don't grow into the huge franchises that their trademark names already are. And you already provided a list of tons of new IPs that many people dismiss as "not important" or "unheard of." I've heard of plenty of those games. Some don't ring a bell, but others are quite vivid in my mind.

Settings and mechanics change with Nintendo games. In Super Mario Galaxy you're in goddamn space going from galaxy to galaxy. In addition to the world rotation gimmick universally present, each galaxy has at least one unique element going for it. 3D World is a more straight-laced 3D platformer that offers some fun co-op opportunities. Skyward Sword adds to the lore of Zelda in more ways than just being another story where Link kicks the crap out of Ganon (I still don't like it as a game though).

What does the PS4 or Xbox One have to offer me besides a couple fighting games and specific niche games I've been looking forward to? 6-10 hour experiences which may be visually breathtaking, but not at all filled with the substance I find many of Nintendo's games to have. Also, most of them will be shooters. Because they gotta be "mature" y'know. Grow up with the audience. Which somehow became synonymous with generally only creating one genre of game.

 

[Evonisia]

I basically agree with the point, I guess. My major concern when it comes to Nintendo IPs is that other companies are learning how to make some of their sub-main IPs obsolete.

I mean really, what is the point of 2D Mario games when Ubisoft got Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends to do what they do except better in pretty much every single way? When they announce New Super Mario Bros. Wii U I'll just shrug my shoulders and pray for Rayman Begins.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm talking about the mechanics. Galaxy plays NOTHING like 3D World same with SS and ALBW.

That's exactly what I wasn't talking about. It's the universe and the characters within that universe that some people have grown tired of, and what they refer to when criticizing Nintendo's lack of new IP's. And yes, I know NintenDogs, Wii Fit, and Wii Sports are new IP's, but those are hardly games that do anything new or exciting gameplay or character wise. They're more family fun games, so you can't blame the more enthusiastic gaming public for not embracing those titles.

I'm looking forward to the new Zelda, but I'd be way more excited if it was an action adventure set in a new world with different characters and a different plot. Again, when the new Zelda got revealed the one thing everybody lost their shit over was Link looking slightly more feminine than usual, indicating that maybe you'd play as a girl and that this series might actual introduce some new character elements.

 

[Silvanus]

It depends... In Galaxy and 3D World, do you play as Mario in the Mushroom Kingdom and jump on goombas, collect coins, mushrooms, fire flowers, and fight Bowser and/or his kids to save Peach or some other female hostage? And in Skyward Sword and ALBW, do you play as Link starting out in a small town, who then through some disturbance gets thrust into a quest involving the Triforce, the Master Sword, saving Zelda, and defeating Ganon?

If the answer is yes, then that has become pretty bog standard at this point.

Not to be persnickety, but Galaxy doesn't take place in the Mushroom Kingdom, and Skyward Sword doesn't feature Ganon. I think it's a very fair point that there's an ocean of difference within Nintendo IPs.

OT: Nintendo also has Pikmin, Splatoon, Pushmo, and others. They do actually have a number of new IPs, whether or not people recognise it. The fault may lie with their marketing... or it may lie with the attitudes people have towards Nintendo.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I'm just wondering why this "New IP" fad began. It seems to have picked up last gen; suddenly we had a bunch of wannabe rebels thinking because they demanded new stuff instead of long-lived series they were suddenly of a higher standing. Except "New IPs" are nothing rare or even uncommon in gaming, new IPs are made all the time. It's just that we don't talk about that because most of them SUCK. From experience, it's clear that "New IP" is just a cheap, lazy buzz term for someone to try and sell their boring, derivative game. And Nintendo has seen through that facade as Miyamoto and others have repeatedly stressed that a new ip MUST be more than just a name on a box otherwise there's no point.

It's why Nintendo is very careful about new IPs. Something MUST bring a new experience to Nintendo's library otherwise what's the point? Furthermore, considering that Nintendo has hit basically every genre known to man it's no wonder they're more selective about what new stuff they could make. That's like whining about a musician not learning new instruments when he's already mastered nearly every other one. And of course, if just to add salt to wounds of the "New IP" fallacy, it seems to me that Nintendo's long-running, big name franchises are exuding more creativity and personality than all the upstarts "shiny new franchises."

 

[PinkiePyro]

I would rather they give some love to lesser Existing IPs like requiem (was promised 3 got one) and chibi-robo (other than photo finder which is crummy most of the games have been suffering from Mother-syndrome and not leaving japan)

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I don't have to do any weird calculations to know that the Wii U has been out for over 2 years and so far has seen a single new IP: ZombiU. I believe there's also something like 3 new indie games on the eShop.

 

[Evonisia]

I don't have to do any weird calculations to know that the Wii U has been out for over 2 years and so far has seen a single new IP: ZombiU. I believe there's also something like 3 new indie games on the eShop.

What's incredible (and yet somewhat tragic) is that in those two years there's not been a sequel to ZombiU. Cheap and lazy, sure, but it's an absolute crime that we've been denied an updated, not rushed version of such an already great game.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I don't have to do any weird calculations to know that the Wii U has been out for over 2 years and so far has seen a single new IP: ZombiU. I believe there's also something like 3 new indie games on the eShop.

What's incredible (and yet somewhat tragic) is that in those two years there's not been a sequel to ZombiU. Cheap and lazy, sure, but it's an absolute crime that we've been denied an updated, not rushed version of such an already great game.

Kudos to Nintendo though, they have a single new IP (an Ubisoft game, of all things) and it's the one thing that could ever even get me interested in the Wii U. The problem is that's pretty much it. Imagine what they could do with a few more 3rd party deals like that.

 

[themistermanguy]

I don't have to do any weird calculations to know that the Wii U has been out for over 2 years and so far has seen a single new IP: ZombiU. I believe there's also something like 3 new indie games on the eShop.

What's incredible (and yet somewhat tragic) is that in those two years there's not been a sequel to ZombiU. Cheap and lazy, sure, but it's an absolute crime that we've been denied an updated, not rushed version of such an already great game.

Kudos to Nintendo though, they have a single new IP (an Ubisoft game, of all things) and it's the one thing that could ever even get me interested in the Wii U. The problem is that's pretty much it. Imagine what they could do with a few more 3rd party deals like that.

The Wonderful 101 and Splatoon suddenly don't exist anymore?

 

[Silvanus]

I don't have to do any weird calculations to know that the Wii U has been out for over 2 years and so far has seen a single new IP: ZombiU. I believe there's also something like 3 new indie games on the eShop.

In fairness, I'm looking at the new IPs available for PS4 and XBone, and none of them look particularly interesting, except perhaps Bloodborne.

The Order 1886 seems pretty poor, Evolve comes across as a marketing platform, and while the gameplay in Destiny is really very solid, there's nothing particularly enticing about the new brand in terms of setting, plot, character, or unique elements. Dying Light looks potentially fun.

On the one hand, you could argue that at least Microsoft and Sony are trying to bring new IPs, and that'd be a valid point. On the other, though, I don't think it's really fair to tip the scales against Nintendo so much, when the landscape all-round relies on old IPs so much, and the rivals' offerings aren't that great anyhow.

Besides, there'll be Splatoon soon.

 

[Dragonbums]

I basically agree with the point, I guess. My major concern when it comes to Nintendo IPs is that other companies are learning how to make some of their sub-main IPs obsolete.

I mean really, what is the point of 2D Mario games when Ubisoft got Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends to do what they do except better in pretty much every single way? When they announce New Super Mario Bros. Wii U I'll just shrug my shoulders and pray for Rayman Begins.

I mean, yeah but you liking Rayman over 3D World is entirely subjective. That isn't to say that Rayman ISN'T the better platformer this gen than Mario, but what new is it going to bring to the table mechanics wise 3 games down the line? Is it going to be the same thing with better hand drawn visuals? Or are they going to shake it up and try out something new with the same characters?

I mean, of Wii U owners I know a butt ton more of people who have 3D world than Rayman, and it didn't help that other consumers outright refused to buy it due to the delays and holdback bullshit Ubisoft pulled on Wii U owners during the consoles summer drought where people got the console to PLAY Rayman.

 

[Dragonbums]

I don't have to do any weird calculations to know that the Wii U has been out for over 2 years and so far has seen a single new IP: ZombiU. I believe there's also something like 3 new indie games on the eShop.

What's incredible (and yet somewhat tragic) is that in those two years there's not been a sequel to ZombiU. Cheap and lazy, sure, but it's an absolute crime that we've been denied an updated, not rushed version of such an already great game.

Kudos to Nintendo though, they have a single new IP (an Ubisoft game, of all things) and it's the one thing that could ever even get me interested in the Wii U. The problem is that's pretty much it. Imagine what they could do with a few more 3rd party deals like that.

The Wonderful 101 and Splatoon suddenly don't exist anymore?

Everytime I bring up Wonderful 101 people play technicalities and say that doesn't count because technically P* made the game.

Which if we are going that route Kirby and Smash might as well not be Nintendo games either because technically HAL Labratories made the game. Yet despite that they also claim that games like Pokemon are most definitely Nintendo IP's even though technically GameFreak made the games.

There are a lot of handwaving and mental gymnastics when it comes certain actual new IP's from Nintendo.