What's with all them different metal genres?

[Rikkano]

I used to believe that metal was one genre, but apparently there's several subgenres and whathaveyou like heavy metal, death metal, and lots of others. SO could some metal fan here tell me what's the difference between the different subgenres? I'd check Wikipedia except I want it from a real fan talking like a normal person. So anyone who knows anything about this, feel free to tell me.

http://www.mapofmetal.com/#/home

 

[Jamie McLaughlin]

Yeah, sure.

Heavy Metal is a much debated genre by itself. One reviewer of a Led Zeppelin album coined that term. It's been downhill ever since.

See, there are many subgenres, as well as sub-sub-genres... There are a ridiculous amount of sub-genres of Metal. Luckily for you, this is not Punk (which is even more intense in terms of quantity).

Heavy Metal = Iron Maiden, Motorhead, early Running Wild, early Black Sabbath. Traditional metal; blues riffs done with the key of a "satan's" Or "devil's" chord. One of the most early forms of offensive rock. Because people are stupid.

Heavy metal eventually decided to be faster.

Speed Metal = early Metallica, early-mid era Judas Priest, mid-era Running Wild, mid-era Tankard, Anthrax. Really just "faster" heavy metal.

Speed + Punk = eventually metal and punk decided to make some sexy little babies = Thrash.

Mid-Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Tankard, Kreator, Destruction, Sodom, Razor, and last but definitely least; Slayer.

Thrash created the whole concept of "extreme metal". Which eventually turned into Death and Black. Power Metal is divided into two sides; Blue collar USHM and Heavy Metal++. Basically continuing the normal aspects of "heavy metal".

Death is generally considered a direct evolution of Thrash. Black was a revolution against death, or metal in general. Death is Thrash++, whilst Black is Thrash+European stylings+Crust Punk.

Black Sabbath actually created four styles at once without notice. Heavy Metal, Stoner rock, Doom Metal and Sludge. Stoner-rock is blues-heavy metal. Doom Metal is similar, yet much slower and with more distortion. Sludge is stoner+doom+Orange amps. Fuck you, other metalheads, you know it's true.

Shit like Viking Metal and Folk Metal doesn't actually exist. They're just themes. Lyrical content does not equal musical qualities.

If I forgot anything, you guys should tell me. Jameson is not healthy.

First I'd like to mention that while it's true that lyrical themes don't define a genre, a lot of "viking metal" does have a distinctly different melodic style as well. See: Finntroll, Ensiferum.

Other than that, your explanation was very solid.

Thank you.

However, many similar groups have a different "melodic style". How is Ensiferum not a power metal band with harsh vocals? I love them, oh so much, but they're still a part of a power metal front. Well, when Jari was with them. Now that Petri is around, they've morphed into a melo-death act.

Finntroll is just another blue-collar PM act. Not in a bad way, of course. But they're just ManOwar with folk interludes and background instruments. That, in no way, changes a band's genre.

I'm having great fun, though, by the way. Waxing metal is only something I can really do on metal-archives. Apparently Escapist also houses metal heads. Who woulda thought? Hah.

Well, it is a fairly nebulous difference. Has to do with the scales they use, the backing instruments, and overall feel of the song. It's a slight enough difference that the same band can have songs that are and are not "viking" (Ensiferum, once again, is an example).

Maybe it's not a big enough difference to warrant its own genre, but describing a band as "folk" or "viking" metal does significantly increase the chances that I will listen to them.

I don't think metal is the only genre that does this to be honest (although I do think metal fans are a lot more specific with this). I think it kinda applies to electronica too.

But I don't think they would be mentioned near as much, and to be honest, I haven't really taken much attention to more than just hearing about the subgenres.

It seems, on this forum at least, that not as much people are specific on the subgenres of electronica.

Hip-hop, either. =[

Of course. That has nothing to do with genre, though. Scales are independent by nature. But yes, I totally understand what you're getting at.

Yeah, agreed. What's up with Busdriver being compared to Lil' Wayne? Or Aesop to Immortal Tech? It's kind of blowing my mind.

 

[similar.squirrel]

There're so many it's ridiculous. A friend of mine is really into technical metal and death metal.
I've sat through various lectures but I can't keep track of all the genres.

Like, there's this band called Nile who write about Ancient Egyptian stuff (or was it The Book of the Dead? I don't remember) so I guess they're Egyptian Mythology Metal or something.

I think Nile are technically doom/sludge. Could be confusing them with Isis, mind you.


OT: Every genre has these kinds of divisions. Look at electronic music, for example: you've got ambient, drum & bass, glitchcore, dubstep, breakbeat, trance, folktronica, techno [numerous varieties], all kinds of regional stuff..

It's similar to the way scientific disciplines have been multiplying due to a spate of advances over the last half-century or so.

 

[Juuel]

I recommend the Map of Metal: http://mapofmetal.com/#/home

Like, there's this band called Nile who write about Ancient Egyptian stuff (or was it The Book of the Dead? I don't remember) so I guess they're Egyptian Mythology Metal or something.

Nile is death metal, although I've seen people call it technical/brutal/atmospheric death metal. I don't see any reason to call it anything other than death metal, as it should be descriptive enough. They do write about the Egyptian culture but just because band X's lyrics are about how nice it is to ride a bicycle doesn't band X's subgenre "bicycle metal". The idea of genres is to convey what the music sounds like, not what the lyrics say.

Melodic death metal is like just death metal, but has techno and stuff to make it more of a tune

What? I've never heard melodic death metal with elements of techno in it, except for Blood Stain Child, if you can even classify it as melodeath.

Shit like Viking Metal and Folk Metal doesn't actually exist. They're just themes. Lyrical content does not equal musical qualities.

Folk metal uses various elements from folk music, like folk instruments, traditional melodies, traditional singing styles and song structures. I do agree that lyrical themes don't really define a genre, but there are enough musical elements to call folk metal a subgenre of its own, Korpiklaani being a prime example. If Korpiklaani isn't folk metal, what on earth could it be?

I am not too sure about viking metal, as some people call Amon Amarth viking metal because they sing about Viking mythology, when it really is melodic death metal, whereas others call bands like Windir viking metal, because it is a mix of black and folk metal. I don't really use the term because it sounds so much like ninja/samurai/plumber/lawyer/whatever metal.

 

[Jamie McLaughlin]

I used to believe that metal was one genre, but apparently there's several subgenres and whathaveyou like heavy metal, death metal, and lots of others. SO could some metal fan here tell me what's the difference between the different subgenres? I'd check Wikipedia except I want it from a real fan talking like a normal person. So anyone who knows anything about this, feel free to tell me.

http://www.mapofmetal.com/#/home

I'll eat that map.

 

[Jamie McLaughlin]

I recommend the Map of Metal: http://mapofmetal.com/#/home

Like, there's this band called Nile who write about Ancient Egyptian stuff (or was it The Book of the Dead? I don't remember) so I guess they're Egyptian Mythology Metal or something.

Nile is death metal, although I've seen people call it technical/brutal/atmospheric death metal. I don't see any reason to call it anything other than death metal, as it should be descriptive enough. They do write about the Egyptian culture but just because band X's lyrics are about how nice it is to ride a bicycle doesn't band X's subgenre "bicycle metal". The idea of genres is to convey what the music sounds like, not what the lyrics say.

Melodic death metal is like just death metal, but has techno and stuff to make it more of a tune

What? I've never heard melodic death metal with elements of techno in it, except for Blood Stain Child, if you can even classify it as melodeath.

Shit like Viking Metal and Folk Metal doesn't actually exist. They're just themes. Lyrical content does not equal musical qualities.

Folk metal uses various elements from folk music, like folk instruments, traditional melodies, traditional singing styles and song structures. I do agree that lyrical themes don't really define a genre, but there are enough musical elements to call folk metal a subgenre of its own, Korpiklaani being a prime example. If Korpiklaani isn't folk metal, what on earth could it be?

I am not too sure about viking metal, as some people call Amon Amarth viking metal because they sing about Viking mythology, when it really is melodic death metal, whereas others call bands like Windir viking metal, because it is a mix of black and folk metal. I don't really use the term because it sounds so much like ninja/samurai/plumber/lawyer/whatever metal.

Still call bullshit. So you're saying Korpiklaani has created its own metal genre because of its "folky" stylings?

Are you also willing to call Running Wild "Pirate Metal"?

Drudkh uses folk instruments, yet everyone knows they are Black Metal. Same as Temnozor...

 

[Juuel]

Still call bullshit. So you're saying Korpiklaani has created its own metal genre because of its "folky" stylings?

Are you also willing to call Running Wild "Pirate Metal"?

Drudkh uses folk instruments, yet everyone knows they are Black Metal. Same as Temnozor...

I do not think Korpiklaani created folk metal, but it is a good example of it. I'm not sure what you mean by "folky stylings", but I am not calling Korpiklaani folk metal because they sing about, err, folky things, but because they draw so many elements from traditional Finnish folk music. Have a Korpiklaani song, take away the electric guitar and the high tempo, and most of the time you end up with a folk song.

I had never heard of Running Wild before, just gave them a listen, and no, I would not call them pirate metal, because of the very post you've quoted. Lyrical themes are not enough, and what I heard was a rather average heavy metal song.

I only have Drudkh's Blood In Our Wells, and judging by it Drudkh is black metal with some folk influences. I am not saying throwing a folk melody and some folk instrument into some songs makes it folk metal. Never heard of Temnozor previously, but after around 5 minutes of listening I'd say similarly to Drudkh, it is black metal with some folk influences.

 

[Jamie McLaughlin]

Still call bullshit. So you're saying Korpiklaani has created its own metal genre because of its "folky" stylings?

Are you also willing to call Running Wild "Pirate Metal"?

Drudkh uses folk instruments, yet everyone knows they are Black Metal. Same as Temnozor...

I do not think Korpiklaani created folk metal, but it is a good example of it. I'm not sure what you mean by "folky stylings", but I am not calling Korpiklaani folk metal because they sing about, err, folky things, but because they draw so many elements from traditional Finnish folk music. Have a Korpiklaani song, take away the electric guitar and the high tempo, and most of the time you end up with a folk song.

I had never heard of Running Wild before, just gave them a listen, and no, I would not call them pirate metal, because of the very post you've quoted. Lyrical themes are not enough, and what I heard was a rather average heavy metal song.

I only have Drudkh's Blood In Our Wells, and judging by it Drudkh is black metal with some folk influences. I am not saying throwing a folk melody and some folk instrument into some songs makes it folk metal. Never heard of Temnozor previously, but after around 5 minutes of listening I'd say similarly to Drudkh, it is black metal with some folk influences.

So, if Korpiklaani didn't "invent" this "folk metal", who did?

Just because Korpik draws from trad Finnish Folk does not make them any sort of special "folk metal" band... I would like to know what earlier bands you are talking about.

 

[Scars Unseen]

There's a documentary called "Metal : A headbanger's journey" It's really good to get a feel for how the styles evolved over the years and how bands influenced one another.

Here's the diagram from the film :

A Headbanger's Journey is mostly known for its decent interviews, but lousy labeling. Sam Dunham is also a tool. Just sayin.

Amusingly enough, the first thing I noticed about that diagram is that they misspelled "Dream Theater."

 

[Sebass]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os5TXyJlEMc&feature=related

Is this Pirate Metal? It's pretty awesome.

 

[ryanthemadman]

its cool how metal has so many subgenres and such. much more variety than pop culture genres (rap, pop, and (in america) country.)

 

[Juuel]

So, if Korpiklaani didn't "invent" this "folk metal", who did?

Just because Korpik draws from trad Finnish Folk does not make them any sort of special "folk metal" band... I would like to know what earlier bands you are talking about.

I do not know who could be called the first "true folk metal band", nor do I care. Skyclad are usually considered to be the first, although their music is more like heavy metal with some folk elements. Similarly, I do not know what was the first black metal band, some say Venom, some say Hellhammer, but yet I am fairly certain black metal exists. I would say Venom is NWOBHM, but I don't necessarily disagree if someone says they started black metal. Same thing with death metal and Mantas/Possessed/whoever.

 

[jawakiller]

Pirate Metal and Ninja Metal are the best

I disagree. I'd say, that while pirate metal is great, space metal is way more popular these days. Best being subjective, more people believe that Ninja metal is better than say, western metal, but the average person like's medieval metal the most.*

*Data taken from a national study that probably didn't happen.

 

[Jamie McLaughlin]

So, if Korpiklaani didn't "invent" this "folk metal", who did?

Just because Korpik draws from trad Finnish Folk does not make them any sort of special "folk metal" band... I would like to know what earlier bands you are talking about.

I do not know who could be called the first "true folk metal band", nor do I care. Skyclad are usually considered to be the first, although their music is more like heavy metal with some folk elements. Similarly, I do not know what was the first black metal band, some say Venom, some say Hellhammer, but yet I am fairly certain black metal exists. I would say Venom is NWOBHM, but I don't necessarily disagree if someone says they started black metal. Same thing with death metal and Mantas/Possessed/whoever.

Yet, only the most casual of Black Metal fans would ever say Venom. They're completely NWOBHM. Proto-First-Wave. Just like Velvet Underground is "proto-punk".

You're just being stubborn now, which is fine. First BM is arguable. First DM is arguable, etc. etc...

Yet, the first folk metal band is not. Because it is not arguable, because it does not exist. Not the best logic, I know. I will one day rape a Jameson bottle... But you seem to think "Folk Metal" is a legitimate genre, and that's basically silly as fuck.

 

[xplosive59]

Its for Organisation really, If a band has a distinct sound it will be grouped together with other bands which share the same qualities, metal is such a massive genre that if you took two bands at random from the genre they will most likely sound completly different for example Death and Iron Maiden sound nothing alike but are both metal bands, its the subgenres which make it much easier to find bands that have somewhat the same sound. Everything else has already been said so im gonna go back to listening to Lord Belial as it is nothing but Black Metal November.

 

[Haukur Isleifsson]

This is kinda a "the more you know the more you know you don't know shit" deal. The reason for it? Well I would say that because it is based in the mentality of the outsider, of the extremist and the independent. That way whenever there is growth in the genre the new bands feel a need to differentiated themselves from the rest, they don't want to be to mainstream and the don't like to think of themselves as "just like" someone else.

So it's not completely unwarranted to say that there are "too many" sub-genres of metal. And some of them are so oddly specific and only different from there mother-genre and it's other sibling-genres in such minuscule ways. Consider for example the folk metal sub-genre of Oriental Metal, the only thing that really sets it apart from the rest of folk metal is the subject matter/geographical origin. Musically it's mostly the same shit.

So there are some things that it's good to know, most of whom have been said by someone else here.
The metal/punk combo that birthed Thrash and it's subsequent inspiration of all "extreme metal". The strange relationship between black and death metal both of which have come in several waves many of which center around Scandinavia. The rise and fall of Glam-metal which is largely responsible for bringing the genre to a peak of popularity and profitability, and that makes many metal heads despise it. Everything that ends with "-core" is a derivative of hardcore-punk and retains much of it's punk roots. And so on...

But there will always be more to learns because people, inside and outside of the "scene", keep redefining things and the whole thing just evolves and grows making new genres for new bands.

 

[Haukur Isleifsson]

I used to believe that metal was one genre, but apparently there's several subgenres and whathaveyou like heavy metal, death metal, and lots of others. SO could some metal fan here tell me what's the difference between the different subgenres? I'd check Wikipedia except I want it from a real fan talking like a normal person. So anyone who knows anything about this, feel free to tell me.

http://www.mapofmetal.com/#/home

And the, I would defiantly recommend that. Just beware that this is not "perfect" as no description really can be (given the differences in opinion).

And relating to the OT: As you see from the folk metal debate here there is nowhere near a consensus on the matters. I would personally say that there is reason to set folk metal apart from such things as power metal. Not that they are always mutually exclusive. But the line is a thin one indeed. I would for example say that Fintroll is folk metal but Hammerfall is power metal with occasional folk influences on the thematic side of things, as is so common for the European fantasy centered power metal bands.

 

[Jamie McLaughlin]

This is kinda a "the more you know the more you know you don't know shit" deal. The reason for it? Well I would say that because it is based in the mentality of the outsider, of the extremist and the independent. That way whenever there is growth in the genre the new bands feel a need to differentiated themselves from the rest, they don't want to be to mainstream and the don't like to think of themselves as "just like" someone else.

So it's not completely unwarranted to say that there are "too many" sub-genres of metal. And some of them are so oddly specific and only different from there mother-genre and it's other sibling-genres in such minuscule ways. Consider for example the folk metal sub-genre of Oriental Metal, the only thing that really sets it apart from the rest of folk metal is the subject matter/geographical origin. Musically it's mostly the same shit.

So there are some things that it's good to know, most of whom have been said by someone else here.
The metal/punk combo that birthed Thrash and it's subsequent inspiration of all "extreme metal". The strange relationship between black and death metal both of which have come in several waves many of which center around Scandinavia. The rise and fall of Glam-metal which is largely responsible for bringing the genre to a peak of popularity and profitability, and that makes many metal heads despise it. Everything that ends with "-core" is a derivative of hardcore-punk and retains much of it's punk roots. And so on...

But there will always be more to learns because people, inside and outside of the "scene", keep redefining things and the whole thing just evolves and grows making new genres for new bands.

Thank you. An amazingly descriptive most minus the politics of a, *gasp*, label? Good job, sir.

 

[ACman]

Well, metal is like you Iron Maiden etc
Death metal is like really heavy stuff etc, death growling and what not
Black metal has really dark undertones, but is normally similar to death metal
Orchestral metal is metal with... you guessed it! an orchestra! haha
Melodic death metal is like just death metal, but has techno and stuff to make it more of a tune
nu metal is just like slipknot etc. Not sure what's so different. has faster verses and slower chorus' in comparison
Rap metal is what it says on the tin haha

Help?

You forgot thrash metal, speed metal, industrial metal, classic metal, glam metal, metalcore, hardcore punk, deathcore, gindcore, neo-classical metal, sludge metal, drone metal, doom metal, goth metal, power metal, death punk, slam punk, slamcore...

If you want to see how anal retentive a person can get about pigeonholing their music check out Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music. He's taking the piss a bit but its fucken funny.

techno.org/electronic-music-guide/

 

[Jamie McLaughlin]

Well, metal is like you Iron Maiden etc
Death metal is like really heavy stuff etc, death growling and what not
Black metal has really dark undertones, but is normally similar to death metal
Orchestral metal is metal with... you guessed it! an orchestra! haha
Melodic death metal is like just death metal, but has techno and stuff to make it more of a tune
nu metal is just like slipknot etc. Not sure what's so different. has faster verses and slower chorus' in comparison
Rap metal is what it says on the tin haha

Help?

You forgot thrash metal, speed metal, industrial metal, classic metal, glam metal, metalcore, hardcore punk, deathcore, gindcore, neo-classical metal, sludge metal, drone metal, doom metal, goth metal, power metal, death punk, slam punk, slamcore...

Sub-subs... Do they really matter?