What's with the negative view on rock/metal music?

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ItsAChiaotzu

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someonehairy-ish said:
Matthew94 said:
*Wailing guitars and vocalist screaming about sorrow"
Then all you've listened to is core music. Look at one of the biggest metal bands ever; Iron Maiden. Their songs are more often about history and mythology than anything else. No angsty wankery. Whether they're waily on the guitars or not... IDK. Also, clean vocals.

90% of metal is crap. But 90% of everything is crap. You just have to dig a bit deeper.

Iknow metal bands that sound triumphant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqmgpuZLsXQ&feature=related

or talk about the environment and philosophy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eljjOJwlDY

or sex. In a non-misogynistic way too. It depends how you interpret the song really:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3R4zkblHZk

or that just avoid vocals altogether:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lrwYPhHThc
High five for Tempting Time, Animals As Leaders are ridiculously quality.

Anyway, yeah the general opinion of metal to someone who is uninformed is that it's all screaming and all the same, so all you need to do is ease them in with less jarring material.
 

Silent Anima

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AnarchistFish said:
BMTH are still metal. They've gotten less heavy since their debut album but they're still metal...
And I'm not really sure why people think metalcore is closer to hardcore than metal. Listen to a hardcore band, listen to a metal band, then listen to a metalcore band. In most cases metalcore will sound closer to metal. It just doesn't have the same intense, claustrophobic energy and raw guitar sound.
I might be listening to the wrong metalcore then. The metalcore bands I've listened to sounded closer to post-hardcore than metal. Probably why I'm not that into it.
 
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Most likely due to the close-minded nature of most people when it comes to creative media.

"This music is just noise because it's not happy."

"This game is boring because I can't shoot people."

"This film is for kids because it's animated."

"This painting is just mess because it's not photorealistic"

Oh, and stereotypes of all rock/metal being angry, of course.

And of course "Both of these guitars have distortion, so they sound exactly the same because its not like melodic style means anything in music, right?"
 

OmniscientOstrich

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OhJohnNo said:
most metal songs sound similar to each other to me. Not quite to "they all sound the same" level, but it's rock music I find can't be properly looked at as a single genre.
Matthew94 said:
Refer to my post above, the songs I've sampled I'd say are pretty idiosyncratic, most of them predominately use clean vocals and they aren't built upon the superfluous displays of technicality you seem rather averse to. Even if you guys aren't fond of them, I'm hoping to at least illustrate the diversity capable within and plethora of influences that metal draws from.
 

AnarchistFish

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SilentJay22 said:
AnarchistFish said:
BMTH are still metal. They've gotten less heavy since their debut album but they're still metal...
And I'm not really sure why people think metalcore is closer to hardcore than metal. Listen to a hardcore band, listen to a metal band, then listen to a metalcore band. In most cases metalcore will sound closer to metal. It just doesn't have the same intense, claustrophobic energy and raw guitar sound.
I might be listening to the wrong metalcore then. The metalcore bands I've listened to sounded closer to post-hardcore than metal. Probably why I'm not that into it.
What bands in particular?
 

xplosive59

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Blargh McBlargh said:
xplosive59 said:
Just a note: all the bands mentioned in these posts are metalcore (offshoot of the hardcore genre), not actual metal. :p
Would say that used to be the case (when you had bands like biohazard where it is obviously hardcore with metal influence) but now its not so clear, bands like Killswitch Engage, BFMV and Trivium all say that they are "troo metalz" although being metalcore.
Bands say a lot of shit though.

Rhapsody (of Fire) call themselves "Hollywood metal". <.<[/quote]

Really? cause thats hillarious, its kinda to be expected though when you were once managed by John DeMaio!
 

DoPo

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ElPatron said:
DoPo said:
Oh look another one of those threads. "Some people do not like what I like, why don't they like it?"
The OP's post.

Your head.

Way over it.
Same thing with my post and your head. I said confirmation bias. That's what it seems to me and OP hasn't really disproved it. He wants to believe people who don't like metal hate it and so he only remembers the bad things people say. There are a lot of people who neither hate nor like it. In fact there are those who just don't voice their opinions regardless.

I've been a victim of the exact same bias before. There were a couple of friends who were talking about KoRn, I believe and their new album. Then their conversation switched to Slipknot. I didn't take part in the conversation because 1) I don't listen to neither of the two 2) I didn't have nothing to add to that topic really. Then one of them pointed out I didn't say anything, hence I must be appalled by what they were speaking about. So yes, they quickly came to the conclusion that I must absolutely hate metal so they jokingly apologised for their "bad taste". While I stayed there stunned. By the way, my music library consists of 90% rock and metal (rock to metal ratio is probably around 30:70). I had to ask them "Are you guys serious?" to confirm they really weren't joking. They weren't.

Other example: Another friend heard me briefly talk about Metallica (the only time music had been brought up at all) and so he immediately came to the conclusion that I must hate rap[footnote]He listens to rap. So obviously, because I listen to metal, I listen to only metal and nothing else. Hence, I hate all other music. Simple really.[/footnote]. It was a week or two after that he decided to play some rap to wind me up. He was shocked, shocked to learn that I liked rap, too. Well, this time at least I wasn't the one taken by surprise.

That's just the more prominent examples that happened to me specifically. It happens all the time everywhere, heck, I used to do it - I thought that listening to Limp Bizkit and Eminem made me unique when I was around 13. I thought that nobody else could understand the music, hence, if they didn't already listen to LB, they hated it. I must repeat, I was around 13 at that time.

So, why is it that the trend continues? Why do people still choose to listen to only those who support their view and the others who don't for stupid reasons? No, I haven't seen much hate for rock/metal - there are those who like it (actually a significant amount), those who dislike it for legitimate reasons (personal opinion and they don't go out of their way to voice it), others who can't really be bothered (still don't voice their opinion) and a small portion of people with wrong to idiotic views (e.g., it makes Satan possess you). The last group aren't a lot. They just like to be heard. And actually some of the bad impressions can be the fault of the fans of the genre - here's another thing I've seen countless times:

Fan: So do you like the genre of music I like?
Non-fan: Not really.
F: But why?
NF: I don't know, I just don't.
F: You must have a reason tell me.
NF: I told you, I don't know. [makes up something hoping to finish the discussion] I suppose I don't like the sound.
F: OK, here listen to this and tell me you don't like it.
NF: Nope, sorry.
And so on and so forth. By pushing what you like, you'll rarely convert somebody. You're more likely to hear a lame excuse because you're being an idiot yourself.

So, confirmation bias? Yes, I think so. There isn't a huge amount of people that think guitars summon demons and listening to metal requires you to eat babies and make sacrifices every full moon. Because someone doesn't listen to metal doesn't mean they believe those things, either.

And sacrifices are on new moon, duh, I hope your goat is ready for Wednesday.

EDIT:
Smokej said:
the target audience are mostly 14-24 old smart-arses (who are always very vocal about how much better their music genre is than everything else), older listeners are either more open to other genres or are eternal juveniles themselves...
Now that, I think is correct. Or mostly correct. Sounds plausible enough and I'd support it.
 

someonehairy-ish

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ItsAChiaotzu said:
someonehairy-ish said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lrwYPhHThc
High five for Tempting Time, Animals As Leaders are ridiculously quality.

Anyway, yeah the general opinion of metal to someone who is uninformed is that it's all screaming and all the same, so all you need to do is ease them in with less jarring material.
I'm seeing them in summer with Meshuggah :D going to be amazing.

I find it depends on the listener. Somebody who appreciates more technical musical, classical and the like, might be easier to throw in the deepend with stuff like AAL because they'll already be able to appreciate the composition. Somebody who just listens to soft rock or pop or whatever might be best started off on some really soft songs from a band that also does metal. That way once they develop a liking for the band they might move onto some of their heavier stuff.

I got into metal by listening to some of the songs off Avenged's self titled album. Then I started listening to City of Evil, which is a bit heavier. Then I listening to Waking the Fallen which is heavier still. I think because I'd got used to Syn's guitar and the doublebass pedals in the soft songs it wasn't so harsh sounding in the heavier ones.
I remember a time when I thought LOG was just noise. Now they're about the softest band I listen to.
 

AnarchistFish

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Another thing I've noticed is that because I listen to a lot of metal I've developed into this stereotype. People are constantly surprised when I reveal I like bands such as Sigur Ros, Brand New, etc just because they aren't metal. Most of the music I listen to these days isn't even metal but because I listen to a lot of it people presume that's all I listen to.
 

Silent Anima

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AnarchistFish said:
SilentJay22 said:
AnarchistFish said:
BMTH are still metal. They've gotten less heavy since their debut album but they're still metal...
And I'm not really sure why people think metalcore is closer to hardcore than metal. Listen to a hardcore band, listen to a metal band, then listen to a metalcore band. In most cases metalcore will sound closer to metal. It just doesn't have the same intense, claustrophobic energy and raw guitar sound.
I might be listening to the wrong metalcore then. The metalcore bands I've listened to sounded closer to post-hardcore than metal. Probably why I'm not that into it.
What bands in particular?
Bands like Atreyu, The Devil Wears Prada, Asking Alexandria, Vanna, The Number Twelve Looks Like You, We Came As Romans, and others along those lines. I really like Between the Buried and Me, though. They're considered metalcore as far as I know.
 

AnarchistFish

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SilentJay22 said:
AnarchistFish said:
SilentJay22 said:
AnarchistFish said:
BMTH are still metal. They've gotten less heavy since their debut album but they're still metal...
And I'm not really sure why people think metalcore is closer to hardcore than metal. Listen to a hardcore band, listen to a metal band, then listen to a metalcore band. In most cases metalcore will sound closer to metal. It just doesn't have the same intense, claustrophobic energy and raw guitar sound.
I might be listening to the wrong metalcore then. The metalcore bands I've listened to sounded closer to post-hardcore than metal. Probably why I'm not that into it.
What bands in particular?
Bands like Atreyu, The Devil Wears Prada, Asking Alexandria, Vanna, The Number Twelve Looks Like You, We Came As Romans, and others along those lines. I really like Between the Buried and Me, though. They're considered metalcore as far as I know.
Yeah, most of those are pretty watered down metalcore/post hardcore. The Number Twelve Looks Like You are usually considered mathcore or grindcore though. Maybe even screamo.
God I'm such a genre nazi.
 

Silent Anima

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AnarchistFish said:
God I'm such a genre nazi.
Eh, being a genre nazi isn't that bad. I'm one to some extent too. I get irritated when people get a band's genre wrong. And by wrong I mean not even close. Like when I saw someone call Hate Eternal metalcore.
 

AnarchistFish

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SilentJay22 said:
AnarchistFish said:
God I'm such a genre nazi.
Eh, being a genre nazi isn't that bad. I'm one to some extent too. I get irritated when people get a band's genre wrong. And by wrong I mean not even close. Like when I saw someone call Hate Eternal metalcore.
Heh. I get really irritated when people use the term "screamo" for anything with screaming in it.
 

Deathmageddon

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Firstly, any metal song is to Justin Beiber as the Sistine Chapel ceiling is to a stick figure.

As a metalhead, I can say that we frequently make ourselves an easy target for negative attention. Even I frequently get pissed off at the amount of blatant, deeply insulting religious intolerance in the genre.

(off-topic rant incoming- sorry) And on that point, seriously, people, what the hell? Not only is blaming God/Christians/Christianity for all of the world's problems completely immature, it shows that you don't know what you're talking about. The Bible, being the supreme spiritual authority in the Christian faith, specifically says (I might be paraphrasing some of this and I can't recall the exact citations, but they're in there), "Thou shalt not kill", "Love your enemies as yourself", etc, etc. So shut up and write something original, already.

Okay rant over metal for life.
 

AnarchistFish

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Deathmageddon said:
Firstly, any metal song is to Justin Beiber as the Sistine Chapel ceiling is to a stick figure.
Lol I've heard quite a few metal bands who are much much much much much worse than anything like Justin Bieber.
 

JaceArveduin

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Raggedstar said:
Negative views on metal? That stuff has been going on for more than 30 years. Been there, done that. Though for the most part, metal these days is fairly well recieved. A lot of the good stuff isn't "MAINSTREAM", but still at a good level of acceptance. Sure there are the nutter people who think you're going to hell for it, but what doesn't get you into hell to them? People I know are either metal fans, or have just lived with it.

If you're talking about people who just plain dislike it *shrugs* people like/dislike cetain things. Simple as that. Open-and-shut case. I'm sure there are songs/genres you feel like you can't listen to.

IamLEAM1983 said:
The best kind of Metal to show to detractors is Power Metal, provided you can get them to read the lyrics at the same time. Most people think shredding and pounding unilaterally leads to singing about demons and scantily-clad succubi and, well, generally everything that ends up in a typical Cradle of Filth song. Bands like Helloween, on the other end, are typically steeped in Tolkien-based hero worship and maintain a largely positive outlook on things. The same goes for Italian Metal (i.e. Rhapsody), where ending up with an operatic finish about some sort of epic clash between a single wizard against an entire army is fairly commonplace.

There's plenty of Metal subgenres that absolutely don't wallow in doom and gloom, but they naturally don't get much circulation. The mainstream media tends to give more attention to anything that's borderline Screamo or that makes Trent Reznor's melodramas look like a half-hour spent watching the Teletubbies.
Completely agree about power metal. Nightwish, Sonata Arctica, and Stratovarius (gotta love 'dem Finns) were three of my gateway bands that got me into metal. I listened to bands like Metallica too, but power metal is where my heart is. It's one of the less "offensive" and more approachable sub-genres (except for maybe folk metal for those that are into the folky stuff). It's metal, but it doesn't "scare" people so much. Power metal has upbeat (sometimes fantastical) tempos and themes, aren't as loud, not known for screaming or Satanic themes, etc. I mean, bloody Nightwish has certain songs/lyrics rooted deeply into mythology, fairy tales, classic literature, and DISNEY (as well as the entire song Fantasmic, which is deliciously stuffed with it).
You mention Tolkienesque lyrics, and all sorts of bands, but don't include The Bards? For shame sir. You can't talk about Power Metal without at least a passing mention of Blind Guardian, it's complete heresy to do so!

And for those of you wondering, here's some songs from them.