Animu how exactly? All the races have had "mecha" for a long time, but the specific influence of anime style mecha on the Tau shines through.Alleged_Alec said:
What's with the Tau's reputation?
- Thread starter Alexei F. Karamazov
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On top of everything else already said in this thread, there's another couple of points worth adding. All the other 40k factions have their ups and downs, defeats and victories. Even the much maligned Ultrasmurfs get creamed at Cold Steel Ridge during their eventual bloody victory over Behemoth, and lose multilpe world's during Honsou/M'kars invasion (which admittedly may not have happened anymore, but that GW for you). But the Tau never seem to take their licks like everyone else, for example their most recent codex turns one of their only outstanding defeats (Zeist Campaign, form 5th ed Codex Space Marines) from 'the Imperium gets sick of the Tau expansion, so the Marines kick the shit out of them' to 'Marines attack Tau, but it was actually a diversion, while the Marines drive the tau out of this sector, the lack of Astartes elsewhere means another couple of sectors are invaded/fall to the Tau' (which is also another couple of shades of bullshit I won't get into here).
Plus there the fact that their rules are some of the most overpowered, broken, cheese-mongering and rage inducing rules in the current game.
Plus there the fact that their rules are some of the most overpowered, broken, cheese-mongering and rage inducing rules in the current game.
Well, for me, there are two main classes of mechas out there, the sleek, almost organic ones, which are often styled like those similar to what the eldar use, and the more 'classical' blocky ones, which are similar to tau mechas.Zykon TheLich said:
thaluikhain said:
They were retconned in very badly. All of a sudden, everything had to be about the C'tan.Alleged_Alec said:
The Blackstone Fortresses, Cadian Pylons, the entire Adeptus Mechanicus...all cause of the C'tan. Hell, the existence of the Eldar, Orks, daemons and so on is because of all that.
Everyone knew about them for many millenia, but for some reason nobody did anything about them.
Now, nowdays 3rd ed C'tan and Necrons aren't that much of a problem, as the fluff has has time to recover again...only they changed everything about the Necrons and made them painfully generically boring.
I am mostly familiar with the Tau through the video games, the novels and binging TVTropes (as I don't have the time or the money to get into the tabletop scene), and in my opinion they are actually under-utilized. There are so many great storytelling opportunities they would provide to contrast them in the silly grimdark universe, but most writers just don't seem to really care about them and instead want them to be grimdark too for some weird conformity logic.
In fact the reason I love the Ciaphas Cain novels with all my heart to this day is because they actually gave us glimpses of the non-grimdark, non-warring, everyday life of the WH40k universe, where the foot-soldiers are actually human beings and the ones in charge are trying to do their best to save civilians instead of treating them like numbers on a spreadsheet and where battles have their stakes and reasons. These kinds of things gave life to the Imperium of Man, which I previously considered the silliest, most forced grimdark thing in existence, and the Tau was a great opportunity to do the same to the entire setting, seeing the universe through the eyes of a species that has yet to be jaded out of their skull by millenia of pointless xenophobia and warfare... In fact, in many ways they would provide a very nice thematic throwback to pre-Horus Heresy humanity, as the ambitious, rapidly advancing, science-focused species of the setting.
But no, we have to focus on the combat specs, give them grimdark undertones to fit in the setting better and hate them for not conforming, because that is how you keep a franchise fresh and interesting, right?
In fact the reason I love the Ciaphas Cain novels with all my heart to this day is because they actually gave us glimpses of the non-grimdark, non-warring, everyday life of the WH40k universe, where the foot-soldiers are actually human beings and the ones in charge are trying to do their best to save civilians instead of treating them like numbers on a spreadsheet and where battles have their stakes and reasons. These kinds of things gave life to the Imperium of Man, which I previously considered the silliest, most forced grimdark thing in existence, and the Tau was a great opportunity to do the same to the entire setting, seeing the universe through the eyes of a species that has yet to be jaded out of their skull by millenia of pointless xenophobia and warfare... In fact, in many ways they would provide a very nice thematic throwback to pre-Horus Heresy humanity, as the ambitious, rapidly advancing, science-focused species of the setting.
But no, we have to focus on the combat specs, give them grimdark undertones to fit in the setting better and hate them for not conforming, because that is how you keep a franchise fresh and interesting, right?
Do you have any pictorial examples of the former? Eldar have had a specific aesthetic to their mecha since before anime became a thing, it has evolved over the years but not to the extent that it's like any anime-mecha I've ever seen.Alleged_Alec said:
*disclaimer* I've not touched manga/anime since the mid-late 90's so maybe anime design has changed since then and the Eldar have evolved to look more like current anime mecha, but looking at early-mid 90's and even late 80's sci-fi type you see some very definite lifts for Tau.
That's what I meant with hamfisted. It doesn't mean the faction does not fit in, though.thaluikhain said:
I still think that the new fluff is an improvement, despite the awful writing. We already had the emotionless evil in the Tyranids, and the new fluff allows for much more diverse armies. Yes, it has the trademark Matt Ward stupid and 'we're the bestest', but I still like it that now there's a reason for not all Necron armies to look exactly the same. Furthermore, although they are still very limited in their choices, it gave the army a few extra units, which was desperately needed.
Well, eldar mechs changed fromZykon TheLich said:
They became less squat and much sleeker and thinner limbed., which reminds me of many of the 'main character' mechas in anime, like for example those in Neon Genesis evangelion:
Oh, I completely agree here. The Tau mecha's, and especially the battle suits, look very much like the old Gundams
So, exactly my disclaimer.Alleged_Alec said:
Remember, if you say something has "always" been a certain way to someone who states they are a Rogue Trader grognard in their first sentence, be prepared for them to call you on it.
N.B, I think the new versions of the Contemptor look animu, something about the styling of the legs.
Well, not everyone's as much of a moaning old grognard as me.Alleged_Alec said:
Also part of my point, although I probably didn't make it very well, was that being a new thing they stood out, making the influences more obvious. Eldar evolving over time doesn't stand out as much, they still bear a close resemblance to the early Eldar Titans and Knights (though seeing the new stuff next to those anime pics you can see the similarities with anime too), so when you get a new guy like the OP they're wondering what all the fuss is about.