What's Wrong with the new Star Wars?

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jjboat

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Karma168 said:
jjboat said:
Don't fuck with the duel of fates man, that was easily the best and most fully realized lightsaber sequence in the star wars cannon. it was stunning, beautifully scored and had an emotional punch.
yeah the whole good versus evil thing that the scene was setting up was brilliant and the dialogue is brilliant (if a little cheesy but it's SW cheesy is the norm) but the actual duel was so bad. they basically went "now we've shown off the lightsaber lets see it in use" but Alec Guinness was to old (63 y.o) to properly fight so the fight seemed stale.

If they had really wanted the fight luke should have tried to fight vader and obi-wan intervening, letting luke escape while still bringing in the great dialogue but leaving out a poor fight sequence
I was actually referring to the badass battle in star wars episode 1 with darth maul. Duel of fates is the name of the song that plays so i assumed that was the name of the battle. where did you get the idea i was talking about the battle in Star Wars Episode 4? i never indicated that.
 

Smooth Operator

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Well when I was about 13-15 I loved the new SW movies, I even wanted remakes of the old ones just to have more xlosinons and lightsabers an phew phew phew, and omg so awesome!!11!

But then I got the whole collection about a year ago, and the new ones were f*ing painful to watch, no one gave a flying shit how the actors actually acted, it looks like half of it just went over on the first take, a distinctive "f*ck it it's good enough" approach to things.
And then there was Anakin Skywalker(Hayden Christensen), I hate his emo sobbing whinny ass somuch, honestly the scenes hes in make my teeth grind bacause it's so god awful, and this guy then becomes the supreme badass of the SW universe... are you kidding me?

Lucas had a great idea with the whole SW universe, but he can't write scripts or direct for shit.
 

Zipa

batlh bIHeghjaj.
Dec 19, 2010
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Lucas had a great idea with the whole SW universe, but he can't write scripts or direct for shit.
The best film was the one he didn't direct (empire strikes back), it speaks volumes tbh.
 

warm slurm

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Dec 10, 2010
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I like the new trilogy, kind of. I just hate Attack of the Clones, but the other two are okay.
 

AugustFall

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It was a story which did not need telling. Darth Vader was mysterious and even after knowing he was Luke's Dad he was still an interesting and awesome character.
By showing us his past he is no longer mysterious in the slightest and now he doesn't carry the same weight in the original films. We didn't know why he turned and it wasn't necessary to the film.
The only good thing about the prequels was Obi Wan. If they could have focused on Obi Wan's path without showing Darth Vader somehow, the movies would have been sweet.

If they had made a prequel where Han Solo was a child molester and that was why he became an outlaw then, even if it was never referenced in the Original Trilogy, his character would be compromised.

By showing Darth Vader's past they killed the awesome Darth Vader in 4, 5 and 6.
 

AugustFall

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Wapox said:
Personally the Chosen One was okay I thought. It's technically referenced in the original trilogy as it is Darth Vader who actually kills the Emperor and restores balance to the force. Also Obi Wan's speech after he leaves Anakin burning is one of my favorite parts of all of Star Wars.
 

vviki

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Mar 17, 2009
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Auron555 said:
Do you have 4 hours to spare?
http://redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html
http://redlettermedia.com/clones.html
http://redlettermedia.com/sith.html

That's what's wrong.
What this delightful gentleman said.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Auron555 said:
Do you have 4 hours to spare?
http://redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html
http://redlettermedia.com/clones.html
http://redlettermedia.com/sith.html

That's what's wrong.
One of the things they mention in the "protagonist" section of the first one.

The prequel is supposed to be about the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker, but I didn't care. Vader was iconic, but in the prequels, nothing mattered. Now, one thing people frequently tell me is that it's because I know how it's going to turn out. But I disagree.

Avatar: TLA was awesome in the respect that while I knew what was coming almost every step of the way, I didn't care. It was so freaking awesome and engaging. I bring it up as a point of comparison because of all the parallels to Star Wars. It's not so much the predictability of Anakin's fall, it's that there's no reason for me to cheer for him or hope against his eventual downfall or care when he does.

If nothing else, that's what kills the movies for me.
 

sageoftruth

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Jan 29, 2010
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Human nature. Studies (from classes, so I have no actual links) showed that one's hatred of something is at its highest when one's opinion of it starts to decline. It is the bane of many marriages, since when falling in love, a couples' opinions of each other couldn't be higher and can usually only go down from there.
The new trilogy was viewed by many Star Wars fans, and almost everyone agrees that the old trilogy was much better. My assumtion is that this dissapointment caused a massive drop in their opinion of the Star Wars fanchise, causing smoldering hatred to manifest within them. After all, the same thing seems to have happened with the Sonic franchise.
 

Karma168

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jjboat said:
I was actually referring to the badass battle in star wars episode 1 with darth maul. Duel of fates is the name of the song that plays so i assumed that was the name of the battle. where did you get the idea i was talking about the battle in Star Wars Episode 4? i never indicated that.
oh never mind then. didn't know about that, figured you were talking about the ep. 4 fight as its seen as the most important and epic scene in SW so would have a fancy name like 'the duel of fates'. my bad :/
 

Jabberwock xeno

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Oct 30, 2009
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I agree with OP.

Sure, the orignal 3 may be better films, but when I go watch star wars, I don't want to see a good film with emotion and other stuff, I want action.

I want lasers and energy swords, space fighters and telekinesses, I want robots.

In those respects, the preqiuals are better. And come on, the lightsaber battles in the 1st 3 films were laughbly slow and uncomplicated.
 

RatRace123

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They're not so incredibly bad that they're unwatchable, and they're at least decent if not actually kinda good (at least Episode 3 is, IMO). Though, compared to the original trilogy, there's not that same spark or likability.

That plus the contradictions:
Midichlorians
The Empire only being around for 20 or so years when everyone talks like it's been around for a lot longer.
Han Solo never seeing the force even though he was alive during the times of the Jedi
Anakin was only a kid when Obi Wan met him, hardly an experienced pilot or a disciplined warrior.
Alec Guiness was in his 70s, Obiwan was only in his late 50s.

The contradictions the prequels created, plus them not living up to the "legacy" of the original trilogy is what the fans hate most about the prequels, I think.
 

Raven's Nest

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NickCaligo42 said:
Argument 1: The Force is Depressing in the Prequels and the Characters Suck as a Result

Argument 2: There's Such a Thing as Too Much Action.
Great post man, this pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. For me the prequels are just... forgettable. I'm huge fan but absolutely nothing sticks out in memory about episode 2 (save the powering up of 30 lightsabers). Episode 1 felt like an entirely unrelated movie (which is why it is probably my favourite of the three) and the less said about episode 3 the better.

Your first argument though really hits the nail on the spot for me.
 

Raven's Nest

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RatRace123 said:
That plus the contradictions:
Midichlorians
The Empire only being around for 20 or so years when everyone talks like it's been around for a lot longer.
Han Solo never seeing the force even though he was alive during the times of the Jedi
Anakin was only a kid when Obi Wan met him, hardly an experienced pilot or a disciplined warrior.
Alec Guiness was in his 70s, Obiwan was only in his late 50s.
The midichlorians was just poorly worded, they were an indicator of potential power not of the force itself.

20 years of the same oppressive government is enough to feel like a life-time, ask Nelson Mandela.

Jedi were really rare individuals in an incredibly vast galaxy of people. Saying that Han didn't have first hand experience with the force is probably what the other 99% of the galaxy experienced. If anything, the prequels slipped up by making the Jedi seem like a far more powerful and famous element in the galaxy. It's not like the Jedi went on tour and staged arena shows is it?

Anakin was an interstellar class pod racer when he met Obi-Wan, That makes him one of the most capable drivers/pilots in the galaxy. No other humans (and likely amongst the human jedi too) could do it.

Yes Alec Guiness was older than his character at the time of filming but this happens in movie making all the time. It's not really something that bothers people. hell, living like a hobo on tattooine can do that to a man?
 

Mahoshonen

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Jul 28, 2008
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Why do I think that the PT is shite? Where to begin? I'm going to challenge myself by not just pointing you to Red Letter Media, and instead voice my grievances myself.

Lets start with Episode One. The low-hanging friut are Anakin and Jar-Jar. But there is something deeper running here. I honestly couldn't give a shit about the actual story. A bunch of merchants who sound like Fu-Manchu and are totally ineffectual blockade then invade a planet that I have no reason to care about. There is no sense that anyone is under any stress except for stilted dialoge saying "WAR IS BAD" and "SLAVERY IS BAD". Movies are a visual medium. These things should be shown, not just told in cold dialoge. Everyone who isn't irritating talks in a stale monotone, as if showing emotion isn't allowed. And there is no one who is central to the plot. For a movie based on a series that is cited by Joseph Campell as a prime example of "The Hero Arc" this is a serious offense. And Darth Maul is the biggest waste of a villian, given the amount of fucking hype he received in the lead-up to the film. By the way, Duel of the Fates wasn't interesting because it had no consequence to the rest of the climax. It was a lightsaber fight for the sake of a lightsaber fight.

Episode Two. George Lucas abandons using real sets for CGI, and boy, does it show. Anakin has aged 10 years through perhaps the most important years of his life as far as character development go, and we are told nothing about it. Instead, we get a trilogy that's essentially a character study, but flat out fails to show how a character develops. Anakin fails to evolve at all in this film. Okay, he gets married, but he's still the same character. He's ready to fall face first into Natalie's breasts at the start of the film, and he's still that way at the end. The plot itself is nonsensical. If you asked what the characters accomplish in this film, the answer is essentially nothing. A bunch of events happen to them, and they flat out declare that nothing was accomplished. There are stretches of the film that I can't watch, or cause me to burst out laughing when I'm well aware Lucas was not aiming for that reaction. The love story is dead on arrival, somehow Out-Twilighting Twilight before Twilight was even written. And the relationship between Anakin and Obi-wan was painful to watch. Aren't these two supposed to be friends? Making Anakin into an unlikable twat is pretty damning if the central story you're trying to tell is how he falls from grace. Because if he was a dickhead to begin with, then absolutely no pathos is generated when he becomes a different kind of dickhead.

Episode Three. The most glaring flaw with this movie (and one that I noticed before Mr. Plinkett pointed it out) is that everyone is a total moron. Anakin, Obi wan, the Jedi, the bad guys. The attempt at political relevance is so embarrasing that it would make Seth McFarlane blush. Grievous is just another Villain of the Week. The mood whips wildly around going from fun adventure to mafia-style executions and child murder. Anakin's fall is totally unconvincing. George tries going for a Grecen style tragedy but instead everything is so contrived. The utter lack of chemistry between Hayden and Natilie makes any notion that Anakin's love for Padme is the cause of his fall utterly laughable. And then, he runs straight from willing to do anything to protect Padme to killing her at the first sign she might not approve of what he's done. The whole segment on Kashyyk is needless padding. There is no reason for it to be there. Padme is reduced to being a prop. None of the actors ever conveyed a sense of urgency. "The Chancellor is a Sith? We must hurry." says the man not moving faster then a brisk pace. And like the second movie, there is no sense that anything was accomplished. It speaks volumes that when Anakin fell to the Dark Side, I didn't felt pity, but relief that we finally got past that plot point. I've heard the argument that Palpatine is so powerful that he fills all the plot holes. There is a name for this plot device: "A Wizard did it." Not only is it incredibly lazy, but is discredited because in the last movie, Palpatine loses. If we follow Occam's Razor, then the simpler answer is that everyone in this film is criminally stupid.

I know what some of you are saying: that the Original Trilogy was jsut as dumb. And that's just bullshit. We're talking about a collection of movies cited by literary scholars as the ur-example of ageless themes in story telling. I'm more than willing to put up with its flickering lightsabers, hand puppets, and ewoks, because the story it tells is so compelling that it grabs my attention and refuses to let go. And if you're honestly just watching these movies for the special effects, then there are much better movies and directors that can satisfy your need for that. I'll admit, I just want to watch action and to hell with the plot. In which case I watch Avatar, or Transformers, or Star Trek, or Tron: Legacy. In these movies at least the actors show interest in what is going on around them.
 

^=ash=^

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Sep 23, 2009
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TOGSolid said:
Auron555 said:
Do you have 4 hours to spare?
http://redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html
http://redlettermedia.com/clones.html
http://redlettermedia.com/sith.html

That's what's wrong.
Damn, beaten me to it.

If you really think the new movies are good, then it's safe to say you have a different taste in movies than I do.
Fixed for you.

OT: I don't really mind Episodes 1 through 3; some scenes were good, others weren't. I won't say I thoroughly enjoyed them, sure I liked a lot of it but as I said some scenes were total stool water, but that can be said for the original trilogy aswell.
 

springheeljack

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May 6, 2010
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I for the life of me will never understand the appeal of star wars..it seems people are crazy about it..
 

Ranchcroutons

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Sep 12, 2010
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I think George just got a little CG happy and made a bunch of decisions that made these movies unrecognizable when compared to the original trilogy.