What's Your Opinion On Sequels? - CHAT WITH THE STAFF!

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Feb 13, 2008
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DirkGently said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
I've never seen a good sequel that didn't depart from it's roots.

One of the few I can even think of is Alien/Aliens, where the two films are Survival Horror/Gunbunny.
What about Back to the Future?
Or Bill & Ted?`
Hrrm...BttF does take the Star Wars route where things set off for good rebound in the second episode; BttF 3 is pretty rubbish, and it does have the "Two Part Trilogy" trope.
Bill and Ted....Hrrrmm...You may have a point on that one, but I'd still say Adventure was far better, and it does have the Sequilitis [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Sequelitis] trope.
 

PedroSteckecilo

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Feb 7, 2008
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For me a good "sequel" is to take and improve on a tried and true formula, granted in some cases they are unnecessary, and in others they are just attempting to capitalize on a well known and loved title.

But without sequels we wouldn't have Silent Hill 2, the best in the series, or Burnout 3 (or Paradise, which I haven't played yet but I hear is good) which tweaked the ideas in the previous titles into a much more refined and enjoyable experience. What about Persona 3? It was a complete reworking of an old idea, but it still used some elements from the previous titles. These games are refinements, not just rehashes. Sometimes game developers need more time (and feedback) with an idea to get it right.

Ask yourself, would Resident Evil 4 have been any better if it hadn't been the 4th Resident Evil? If not another Resident Evil, what should Capcom have released instead?

What's the "real" difference between "A Big Budget JRPG by Square Enix" and another Final Fantasy? (actually the answer is Chrono Trigger, but that was a one time thing unlikely to ever happen again)
 

Woe Is You

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Jul 5, 2008
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
RPG's are a bit of a different beast though. Even Halflife 2 departed from it's roots. Of the 5 mentioned, I've only played the first 3, the former two were better in their original incarnation and HOMM bores me rigid.
Wait, what? The first Baldur's Gate better than its sequel? This is the first time I've seen anyone think that. The second game was more polished, had more content, had an actual overarching plot as opposed to some short scenes in the beginning and the end. As said above, it was a necessary game: the first game had most of the mechanics down but the second game fleshed it all out and had a nice story to go with it.
 

DirkGently

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Oct 22, 2008
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The_root_of_all_evil said:
DirkGently said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
I've never seen a good sequel that didn't depart from it's roots.

One of the few I can even think of is Alien/Aliens, where the two films are Survival Horror/Gunbunny.
What about Back to the Future?
Or Bill & Ted?`
Hrrm...BttF does take the Star Wars route where things set off for good rebound in the second episode; BttF 3 is pretty rubbish, and it does have the "Two Part Trilogy" trope.
Bill and Ted....Hrrrmm...You may have a point on that one, but I'd still say Adventure was far better, and it does have the Sequilitis [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Sequelitis] trope.
Adventure was better the Journey, but Journey was funny nonetheless. And yeah, BttF3 was pretty damn awful, but BttF2 was quite good.

Also, now that I think about it, Die Hard, Indiana Jones, and Star Wars (Excluding their most recentage sequelage, in the case of SW, everything made in the past ten years that isn't Battlefront and KotOR).
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Woe Is You said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
RPG's are a bit of a different beast though. Even Halflife 2 departed from it's roots. Of the 5 mentioned, I've only played the first 3, the former two were better in their original incarnation and HOMM bores me rigid.
Wait, what? The first Baldur's Gate better than its sequel? This is the first time I've seen anyone think that. The second game was more polished, had more content, had an actual overarching plot as opposed to some short scenes in the beginning and the end. As said above, it was a necessary game: the first game had most of the mechanics down but the second game fleshed it all out and had a nice story to go with it.
I like to be original.

Basically, BG1 had a lot more charm because of it's failings. BG2 looked far too neat and they ruined Minsc; which is unforgivable. If I'm playing an "RPG" I prefer to look for the plot rather than it get hammered into me. Hence preferring GTA:VC.
 
Feb 18, 2009
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PedroSteckecilo said:
What's the "real" difference between "A Big Budget JRPG by Square Enix" and another Final Fantasy? (actually the answer is Chrono Trigger, but that was a one time thing unlikely to ever happen again)
The difference would be in reception. Expectations for another Final Fantasy would differ from any other Square Enix game, and expectations affect actual reception. New game title wouldn´t have to carry the weight of myriad predecessors (although it would still have the weight of Square Enix´s name). The name Final Fantasy adds a little extra to expectations.
 

tendo82

Uncanny Valley Cave Dweller
Nov 30, 2007
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Not to derail my own thread, but we've been discussing this in the office and it is at least marginally related to the sequel discussion. Discuss!

 

tendo82

Uncanny Valley Cave Dweller
Nov 30, 2007
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PedroSteckecilo said:
Ask yourself, would Resident Evil 4 have been any better if it hadn't been the 4th Resident Evil? If not another Resident Evil, what should Capcom have released instead?
I think the other tricky thing about sequels, as it pertains to videogames, is that a lot of times a sequel is so radically different that it really feels like an application of a brand name to drive a new game forward more than anything else.

I think Nintendo utilizes this approach. It's developed these really strong brands that help people accept a series of radically different gameplay approaches. Mario Sunshine wasn't what I would call a sequel, but it's familiar faces and some of its familiar tropes allowed the developers to introduce fans of Mario to something totally different.
 

Trivun

Stabat mater dolorosa
Dec 13, 2008
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tendo82 said:
Not to derail my own thread, but we've been discussing this in the office and it is at least marginally related to the sequel discussion. Discuss!
Seems that for trilogies there's a trend to go downhill after the second in the series. As a Maths student I'm doing a module in Statistics, and using my 'expert knowledge' (xD) there seems to be a trend whereby 52% (so just over half) of these films have improved or remained consistent with a sequel. However, only 24%, less than half that value, maintain consistency or improve between the second and third films. Therefore this seems to suggest that most series happen to become progressively worse as more sequels are released. However, I feel personally that sequels, especially in video games, can be good provided they remain true to what made the series good in the first place.

Several series of games have been able to improve or stay good with the release of sequels, the most notable of these being Half Life. I never played Half Life when it first came out, but am now eagerly awaiting the release of Episode 3, just as many others are. The sequels there didn't try to change what was good about the series in the first place, but rather changed the bad things, and also expanded on the story. Half Life was originally focused on Black Mesa and the events during the Black Mesa Incident, whereas later games expanded on this and introduced us to City 17, the White Forest, and new characters too. We could see the series from the viewpoint of new people, like Alyx Vance and Adrian Sheppard. This was all done while keeping the games true to their roots.

However, sequels can also be good for other things. With Halo, for instance, we saw the sequels create a new storyline and expand in one way, while the novels and comics expanded the series in another. Many people accuse Bungie and Microsoft of doing to Halo what LucasArts have done with Star Wars, i.e. milking the cash cow. However, the sequels are to expand the story and the rest of the expanded universe is built for the fans. Too much pandering to the fans can, of course, ruin the game completely, and indeed cause the inevitable downfall that franchises such as Star Wars have undisputedly faced.

The point of all this is basically that sequels can be a good thing, provided the developers know what they're doing. Sonic is a classic example of a game that has overstayed it's welcome because the sequels ruined the franchise. When Sonic Team made the jump to making 3D Sonic games (save of course for Sonic Adventure), they basically destroyed what was so great about the original games, and so the sequels were pretty much the downfall of Sonic itself. If they had stuck to the basics that made Sonic what it was then we wouldn't have any problems with the franchise now. Sadly, this wasn't the case. If a sequel is to be successful then it needs to remember it's roots. Simple as that.

N.B. Just realised this is my 1000th post. Woooo!
 

SsilverR

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Feb 26, 2009
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some are ok .. others made me want to go out and kill someone .. my beloved characters ... raped before my very eyes .. and there was nothing i could do about it
 

Lvl 64 Klutz

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Apr 8, 2008
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As far as the trilogy meter goes, I agree with most that I've seen except two. I enjoyed the first Spider Man more than the second, and I don't feel like the Lord of the Rings trilogy was as consistent as the meter suggests.
 

tendo82

Uncanny Valley Cave Dweller
Nov 30, 2007
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Lvl 64 Klutz said:
As far as the trilogy meter goes, I agree with most that I've seen except two. I enjoyed the first Spider Man more than the second, and I don't feel like the Lord of the Rings trilogy was as consistent as the meter suggests.
The meter's biggest crime is in not recognizing that Sylvester Stallone doesn't do trilogies. He does lifetimes. We won't see the end of Rambo and Rocky until we've seen the end of Stallone. Only then can we judge that series. I mean Rocky IV should be proof enough that a third movie can just be a blip on the radar.
 

Easykill

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Sep 13, 2007
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If I liked a game, I want more. Sequels usually fulfil that need. Unless they go and change everything into stupidness, trying to avoid being a samey sequel. Too much of anything is a bad thing though.
 

kommando367

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Oct 9, 2008
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as much as some people hate sequels, they have to realize that sequels are the reason the video game industry prospers. if there where no sequels the entire industry would die out and quick, eventually taking movies with it. and then we'd all be bored
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Indigo_Dingo said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Woe Is You said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
I've never seen a good sequel that didn't depart from it's roots.
Fallout/Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate/Baldur's Gate 2, Heroes of Might and Magic 2 (and 3) and hell, even more recent games like Gears of War 2 and God of War 2 are basically just bigger, more badass and better versions of their original games.
RPG's are a bit of a different beast though. Even Halflife 2 departed from it's roots.
How?
Half Life is far more an "Alien" game, where Freeman is running to escape before he gets betrayed. HL2 is more "Aliens" where he leads "the troops" to defeat the Combine. Survival Horror vs. Quake. imho.
 

EMO_of_LiGHT

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Jan 25, 2009
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Sequels that add something new to the game are all well and good. Simply awesome sequels like Half Life 2 are also good. Lastly, if a game changes enough, like Fallout 3, then it should be ok, though be jugde as a completely original title, just set in the same universe. But sequels that add nothing and are simply just reskins of the last game with an updated plot can be buried in Arizona for all I care.
 

stormcaller

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Sep 6, 2008
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Seqeuls are great for some not for others, without sequels we wouldn't have such gems as: Warcraft III, to some extent WoW, uhhh crap I need more games..., Half-life 2, Age of Empires 2 and again to some extent Age of Mythology.

There's a lot more on the list but I think a seqeul has to expand in all areas Gameplay,graphics and story not just the same with a new story,or better graphics, etc.

Also: Please no more MMO sequels for story-heavy games developers! Blizz realise this and it's taken them this long to find out a good way of keeping story flow even with the massive numbers.