What's your virtue?

[Charlie-two-zero]

If it's of the seven heavenly virtues, I guess I'd say I have (or at least strive for) Prudence, Justice, Temperance, and Courage. But, if I had to narrow it down, I'd say it's justice. On that note:

I always try to make the morally correct choice, regardless of what the consequences may be.

How is this justice, exactly? A just person is one who always grants people precisely what they have earned--under some versions of morality (altruism) being just is considered *cruel*. Justice isn't an altruist virtue, mercy is: the granting of the *unearned*. To an altruist, justice and morality are inevitably and irrevocably opposed.

just because you see it from your point of view doesn't mean it is the absolute truth. justice means different things to different people.

Then it means nothing to anyone and claiming as a virtue or a vice is utterly pointless.

i disagree. some virtues are fleeting within a confined space. it may be to you that you're opposed to this definition of justice. it all depends on which perspective you look at it from.

JMeganSnow is actually correct in this. Justice, when talking of personal virtues, is to always grant people what they have earned. The virtue that best responds to what you, theklng, have described is Pride.

You're partially right, Charlie. In the sense that if one unreasonably holds their opinion on matters of "justice" above that of other people, it would be a sin of pride. That being said, though, the ability to be just first requires one to determine what each person is due. In some cases, it's fairly easy to do, we have entire legal systems premised on this. But, in terms of moral choices (as divorced from legal ones, both being covered under "justice"), one can argue for the validity of ones position on what someone has "earned". But, that takes us into questions of existentialism, the categorical imperative, and every other butting-of-heads about how to determine what is the just dessert for any particular action.

You praise me, partially, for something I never said or intended. And pride isn't just "holding your opinion in high esteem"... that is a value. Pride, the virtue, is the actions taken to EARN that self-esteem in your own eyes. Justice is the esteem in which you hold others actions and values... to each according to their value.

Under NO cirumstances would I EVER consider Pride a sin.

 

[s0ap sudz]

Size (height, weight, and muscle)

Size (Penile).

Seriously though, I'm too honest.

That was good; I'd have to say loyalty.

 

[nova18]

Pessimism.

Interesting fact of this century: The Great Gatsby has no letter E's in it.

grEat

Sorry, I was thinking of Gadsby.

I was actually trying to think of a non-patronizing way of correcting you.
But I got confused between the 2 as well.

Btw, people should read Gadsby by Ernest Wright. Weird book to read, turns out, you cant make a book without E's without making up words

 

[Tattaglia]

Modesty. I know, I'm totally fucking awesome, right?

 

[Marbas]

Erm... What do you call, the "Anti-slut?"
I don't know the right word, but whatever it is, I'm that.

That would be temperance.

Me? Supposedly I have insane amounts of perseverance .

 

[theklng]

I always try to make the morally correct choice, regardless of what the consequences may be.

How is this justice, exactly? A just person is one who always grants people precisely what they have earned--under some versions of morality (altruism) being just is considered *cruel*. Justice isn't an altruist virtue, mercy is: the granting of the *unearned*. To an altruist, justice and morality are inevitably and irrevocably opposed.

just because you see it from your point of view doesn't mean it is the absolute truth. justice means different things to different people.

Then it means nothing to anyone and claiming as a virtue or a vice is utterly pointless.

i disagree. some virtues are fleeting within a confined space. it may be to you that you're opposed to this definition of justice. it all depends on which perspective you look at it from.

JMeganSnow is actually correct in this. Justice, when talking of personal virtues, is to always grant people what they have earned. The virtue that best responds to what you, theklng, have described is Pride.

justice is subjective. who is able to grant whoever what they have earned based on which judgment? who is the judge? what perspective does the judge view the case of 'justice' from? the judge only knows his position based on judgments he or she makes about everything in a case. therefore justice, like judgment, is subjective and may vary from person to person.

 

[nathan-dts]

Pessimism.

Interesting fact of this century: The Great Gatsby has no letter E's in it.

grEat

Sorry, I was thinking of Gadsby.

I was actually trying to think of a non-patronizing way of correcting you.
But I got confused between the 2 as well.

Btw, people should read Gadsby by Ernest Wright. Weird book to read, turns out, you cant make a book without E's without making up words

He actually had to tape down the 'E' on his typewriter to stop himself pressing it by mistake.

 

[Graustein]

Erm... What do you call, the "Anti-slut?"
I don't know the right word, but whatever it is, I'm that.

The word you're looking for is Chastity.

For me, I'd say Love. I'm compassionate to a fault.

 

[acer840]

Loyalty. I've never turned my back on anyone.

 

[Charlie-two-zero]

I always try to make the morally correct choice, regardless of what the consequences may be.

How is this justice, exactly? A just person is one who always grants people precisely what they have earned--under some versions of morality (altruism) being just is considered *cruel*. Justice isn't an altruist virtue, mercy is: the granting of the *unearned*. To an altruist, justice and morality are inevitably and irrevocably opposed.

just because you see it from your point of view doesn't mean it is the absolute truth. justice means different things to different people.

Then it means nothing to anyone and claiming as a virtue or a vice is utterly pointless.

i disagree. some virtues are fleeting within a confined space. it may be to you that you're opposed to this definition of justice. it all depends on which perspective you look at it from.

JMeganSnow is actually correct in this. Justice, when talking of personal virtues, is to always grant people what they have earned. The virtue that best responds to what you, theklng, have described is Pride.

justice is subjective. who is able to grant whoever what they have earned based on which judgment? who is the judge? what perspective does the judge view the case of 'justice' from? the judge only knows his position based on judgments he or she makes about everything in a case. therefore justice, like judgment, is subjective and may vary from person to person.

Subjective means it is created (or alterable) by an individuals consciousness. So justice is NOT subjective. The reasons why people arrive at different appraisals is not proof that the universe is in flux and that the judgement (and the other persons character) is created within the mind of the judge. Just that they have different evidence available to them, or that they judge by different standards.

For instance, I have already stated that I consider Justice and Pride virtues of the highest order. Depending on what YOUR virtues are would influence your judgement of my character. That does not mean your judgement is subjective. Just that it is different.

As for the other questions. We are talking about moral judgement. Because in virtue we deal with ethics and that is the context used for Justice. FOr which judgement; that would be the judgement of a persons moral worth. The judge is yourself. The perspective a judge views the case from is his personal perspective. They evaluate the defendant based on their personal moral code using the evidence available to them to the capacity of their reasoning mind (or blind emotional reaction depending on the judge.) As stated above, this makes the judgement personal, not subjective.

 

[theklng]

I always try to make the morally correct choice, regardless of what the consequences may be.

How is this justice, exactly? A just person is one who always grants people precisely what they have earned--under some versions of morality (altruism) being just is considered *cruel*. Justice isn't an altruist virtue, mercy is: the granting of the *unearned*. To an altruist, justice and morality are inevitably and irrevocably opposed.

just because you see it from your point of view doesn't mean it is the absolute truth. justice means different things to different people.

Then it means nothing to anyone and claiming as a virtue or a vice is utterly pointless.

i disagree. some virtues are fleeting within a confined space. it may be to you that you're opposed to this definition of justice. it all depends on which perspective you look at it from.

JMeganSnow is actually correct in this. Justice, when talking of personal virtues, is to always grant people what they have earned. The virtue that best responds to what you, theklng, have described is Pride.

justice is subjective. who is able to grant whoever what they have earned based on which judgment? who is the judge? what perspective does the judge view the case of 'justice' from? the judge only knows his position based on judgments he or she makes about everything in a case. therefore justice, like judgment, is subjective and may vary from person to person.

Subjective means it is created (or alterable) by an individuals consciousness. So justice is NOT subjective. The reasons why people arrive at different appraisals is not proof that the universe is in flux and that the judgement (and the other persons character) is created within the mind of the judge. Just that they have different evidence available to them, or that they judge by different standards.

For instance, I have already stated that I consider Justice and Pride virtues of the highest order. Depending on what YOUR virtues are would influence your judgement of my character. That does not mean your judgement is subjective. Just that it is different.

As for the other questions. We are talking about moral judgement. Because in virtue we deal with ethics and that is the context used for Justice. FOr which judgement; that would be the judgement of a persons moral worth. The judge is yourself. The perspective a judge views the case from is his personal perspective. They evaluate the defendant based on their personal moral code using the evidence available to them to the capacity of their reasoning mind (or blind emotional reaction depending on the judge.) As stated above, this makes the judgement personal, not subjective.

you can have different situation where one individual may think something is more just than what another person judges. what you see as just may not be just for another person, or indeed, for another being. judgment, being either a passive or active observation of the mind, can only see objects the way any observation apparatus (e.g. eyes) lets it.

let's put in a different way: for ethics, we have good and bad. but good for some may be bad for others. this is the proof, this demonstrates that judgment is subjective, and by extension, that justice is subjective.

from this discussion i gather you don't know the definition of subjectivity:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/SUBJECTIVE?r=75

i rest my case.

 

[theCMNDER]

Ninja.

 

[Charlie-two-zero]

I always try to make the morally correct choice, regardless of what the consequences may be.

How is this justice, exactly? A just person is one who always grants people precisely what they have earned--under some versions of morality (altruism) being just is considered *cruel*. Justice isn't an altruist virtue, mercy is: the granting of the *unearned*. To an altruist, justice and morality are inevitably and irrevocably opposed.

just because you see it from your point of view doesn't mean it is the absolute truth. justice means different things to different people.

Then it means nothing to anyone and claiming as a virtue or a vice is utterly pointless.

i disagree. some virtues are fleeting within a confined space. it may be to you that you're opposed to this definition of justice. it all depends on which perspective you look at it from.

JMeganSnow is actually correct in this. Justice, when talking of personal virtues, is to always grant people what they have earned. The virtue that best responds to what you, theklng, have described is Pride.

justice is subjective. who is able to grant whoever what they have earned based on which judgment? who is the judge? what perspective does the judge view the case of 'justice' from? the judge only knows his position based on judgments he or she makes about everything in a case. therefore justice, like judgment, is subjective and may vary from person to person.

Subjective means it is created (or alterable) by an individuals consciousness. So justice is NOT subjective. The reasons why people arrive at different appraisals is not proof that the universe is in flux and that the judgement (and the other persons character) is created within the mind of the judge. Just that they have different evidence available to them, or that they judge by different standards.

For instance, I have already stated that I consider Justice and Pride virtues of the highest order. Depending on what YOUR virtues are would influence your judgement of my character. That does not mean your judgement is subjective. Just that it is different.

As for the other questions. We are talking about moral judgement. Because in virtue we deal with ethics and that is the context used for Justice. FOr which judgement; that would be the judgement of a persons moral worth. The judge is yourself. The perspective a judge views the case from is his personal perspective. They evaluate the defendant based on their personal moral code using the evidence available to them to the capacity of their reasoning mind (or blind emotional reaction depending on the judge.) As stated above, this makes the judgement personal, not subjective.

you can have different situation where one individual may think something is more just than what another person judges. what you see as just may not be just for another person, or indeed, for another being. judgment, being either a passive or active observation of the mind, can only see objects the way any observation apparatus (e.g. eyes) lets it.

let's put in a different way: for ethics, we have good and bad. but good for some may be bad for others. this is the proof, this demonstrates that judgment is subjective, and by extension, that justice is subjective.

from this discussion i gather you don't know the definition of subjectivity:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/SUBJECTIVE?r=75

i rest my case.

From your link:
sub·jec·tive (səb-jěk'tĭv) Pronunciation Key
adj.

1.A. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.
1.B. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.
2. Moodily introspective.
3. Existing only in the mind; illusory.
4. Psychology Existing only within the experiencer's mind.
5. Medicine Of, relating to, or designating a symptom or condition perceived by the patient and not by the examiner.


You'll notice every single one of those (apart from moodily introspective, that one is outside the context of any discussion we might have) agrees with my version except 1.2. And THAT particular one prefaces itself by adding "; personal: subjective experience." Which is also what I added. PERSONAL.


And apart from your mistaking the meaning of Subjective in a philosophical context (remember, ethics is a branch of philosophy, where Subjective means "Existing only in the mind, illusory" and where personal means "of or relating to an individuals experience",) you agree with me almost completely.

Me: Depending on what YOUR virtues are would influence your judgement of my character.

theklng: for ethics, we have good and bad. but good for some may be bad for others. this is the proof, this demonstrates that judgment is subjective, and by extension, that justice is subjective.

As I said, apart from your misuse of the word "subjective" it is essentially the same statement. Further we aren't talking about taking any ACTION based on this judgement. We aren't sending anyone to prison or firebombing their homes. We're just assigning a value of respect or condemnation (with no further power of coersion) upon the actor.

And all this still doesn't change the fact that it is the virtue of "pride" that always tries to make the correct moral choice, and "justice" that judges the moral worth of other people and assigns your love, respect, or condemnation upon the actions of others according to what they have earned.

 

[Yog Sothoth]

...does smoking count?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Loyalty I suppose although I can be brutally honest however I also lie, so cannot be honesty.

 

[Wolvaroo]

Justice I suppose.

 

[megapenguinx]

Patience or Justice.
Either or