When Characters in game don't matter

[clarissa]

Hi everyone! I know I am new to this community to post anything, but I would like to discuss something more or less serious with you.

I was reading some texts from a famous ludologist, in order to finish writing my report of independent studies in games, and I saw a strange idea in his texts.
The first one is that the game, for him, is nothing but gameplay, and gameplay is all that matters. By this thought, a game of chess would be more entertaining than a Resident Evil, because the chess you can play many many times without getting too much involved.
And, as only gameplay matters, it would not matter if you played chess with bottle caps or with the simpsons in the place of the queen and king. At this point, I kinda agree. However, he prolongs his saying, using the example that the figure of Lara Croft in Tomb Raider none influence has on him. That he sees through her, and that could there be any other representative in her place that the game would be the same.

Now, I want you to answer me, please: would you play Tomb Raider if Lara Croft was a cow, a moving potato, a gollen?
For those who haven't played TR: would you play Bayonetta if Bayonetta were a clown, for instance?
Really: the character does not really matter?

Your answers will be much appreciated.

EDIT: changed the title

 

[JaymesFogarty]

From Tomb Raider Angel Of Darkness, the gameplay has become more interesting and varied. Lara as a character isn't very interesting, but the gameplay is good enough to warrant a session playing as a vegetable.
Other games however, such as Assassins'S Creed & Uncharted feature well-developed characters; you couldn't play the game without them.

 

[Robyrt]

A game with sufficiently absorbing, flow-creating gameplay can subsume character, becoming a pure expression of mechanics. Lara Croft could be a penguin at these times and it would make no difference, as long as you could still see what was going on.

But in order to achieve this level of mastery, characters are usually required. I find it difficult to get into abstract games unless they are extremely compelling, while an original character or setting can extract more of my hard-earned dollars.

 

[LogicNProportion]

I call bullshit on this theory!

While there are those in the gaming community who care only about what's happening on the screen at the moment, (The kind of people who don't know that there's a campaign on their favorite FPS, and don't give two shits about narrative.) I know for a fact, that while many people care about fun, they also care about the characters and stories and how well structured they are. I am one of these people.

It makes no sense for Bayonetta to be a clown, as even with the game not taking itself seriously, the game talks about witches, etc for the entire time. The mere aesthetic of a clown has no place in the rest of the game. She would not fit in with the game-universe, and such sloppy writing and designing would be reviled as shit from the likes of me.

Same with Lara Croft, basically.

Games like chess, checkers, etc, are different, because there really is no 'universe' that the in-game avatars (characters/pieces) have to try and fit into.

 

[clarissa]

From Tomb Raider Angel Of Darkness, the gameplay has become more interesting and varied. Lara as a character isn't very interesting, but the gameplay is good enough to warrant a session playing as a vegetable.

I haven't played TR a lot, so I can't tell. However, I suppose this title is not the first of the series, right? So, don't you think that she was already consolidated as a strong character, even for marketing reasons?

 

[Good morning blues]

I think you're kind of missing the point between the ludology / narratology divide. The point isn't that only one of them matters; the point is that the guy you're reading is doing a purely ludological analysis. I don't think that anyone would disagree when I say that ludology studies those aspects that define the medium of video games, it's also ridiculous to claim that narratives don't matter at all. Red Dead Redemption wouldn't be the same game if it was a science-fiction story, even if all of the ludological aspects were identical.

 

[TaboriHK]

When a character is one dimensional, then of course they are replaceable. You can't say the same of a character who's actually a character, and anyone who says otherwise is just trying too hard to have a controversial opinion.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

It wouldn't matter WHAT Lara Croft was, I still wouldn't go near those venomous sanity-erasing games with a 10-foot-barge pole that belonged to someone I hated enough to steal it from.

 

[Who Dares Wins]

The point of Tomb Raider and Bayonetta are booooobs (pretty sure you picked out those two for example is because of this). There ARE games where the characters can be replaced but only as an ingame model and everything else stays the same.
eg. in CoD you can't see yourself (at least in SP, in MP other guys can see you) but I'm pretty sure that's not what you're talking about.

 

[Woodsey]

Board games are built without characters in the first place.

Modern games are not; I'm finding the comparison a bit of a stretch. In a board game, the objective is simply to win, in a modern video game, the objective is now often to advance the story.

 

[Wolfram23]

When a character is one dimensional, then of course they are replaceable. You can't say the same of a character who's actually a character, and anyone who says otherwise is just trying too hard to have a controversial opinion.

Yeah, that.

In plenty of games, say WoW, the character is pretty much the only thing that does matter lol.

 

[Cogwheel]

Depends on the game.

Some games can't survive changing a character - no, not a word, even a single character. For instance, take Nethack or any other roguelike. The protagonist is an @ character/symbol. I don't think I could play the game if that was casually replaced with, say, a #.

I mean, then I would think they're a wall, and that's just silly.

 

[Link XL1]

from looking at your examples (lara and bayonetta) i think your missing the point. these two arent good characters, they're chicks with impossible sex appeal. now, if you were to ask if i'd still play Heavy Rain or The World Ends With You if the characters were replaced with mindless cows, then i'd say no and call you an idiot (no offense).

as for the chess player, i'd say he hasnt played the right games to be able to make a statement like that.

 

[Judgement101]

Heavy Rain, I didn't give a f*** about the characters but the stroy was beyond great.

 

[JaymesFogarty]

From Tomb Raider Angel Of Darkness, the gameplay has become more interesting and varied. Lara as a character isn't very interesting, but the gameplay is good enough to warrant a session playing as a vegetable.

I haven't played TR a lot, so I can't tell. However, I suppose this title is not the first of the series, right? So, don't you think that she was already consolidated as a strong character, even for marketing reasons?

The reason I started with Angel Of Darkness, is that it was the first Lara Croft game I played, and was actually interested in her character. The first four games featured boobs on legs as far as I'm concerned; it was the delicious drama in AOD that started to build her character for me.

 

[Drakmeire]

As long as it's someone I don't want to punch in the face I'm fine with it. Samus in other M is a good example of a character ruining the game as is any character that never shuts up with the same lines during a fight.

 

[qwewee]

generally in games that don't rely heavily on story or personality input (ex: call of duty, mechwarrior, crackdown) the emphasis is very detracted from the main character and thus the character becomes mearly a vessel for your will in stead of a free thinking character guided in battle or other aspects of life.

 

[Twaddlefish]

From Tomb Raider Angel Of Darkness, the gameplay has become more interesting and varied. Lara as a character isn't very interesting, but the gameplay is good enough to warrant a session playing as a vegetable.

I haven't played TR a lot, so I can't tell. However, I suppose this title is not the first of the series, right? So, don't you think that she was already consolidated as a strong character, even for marketing reasons?

The reason I started with Angel Of Darkness, is that it was the first Lara Croft game I played, and was actually interested in her character. The first four games featured boobs on legs as far as I'm concerned; it was the delicious drama in AOD that started to build her character for me.

You mean you pieced together a story despite all the horrific bugs?

 

[ExplosivePerson]

I wouldn't mind playing Cole MacGrath as a potato. He already looks like one, after all.

But in all seriousness, as long as it isn't a story-heavy game like Mass Effect playing as something random and silly wouldn't be too bad. Hell, Super Meat Boy stars a cube of meat, a bandage, and a fetus in a robot suit in a twisted version of THE Mario Story (You all know the one I mean).

 

[Minky_man]

I'm one of those (aparently) few video game players, who doesn't really care too much about the story. I play for the gameplay and whether I'm finding a suitcase to stop a bomb or shutting down a powergrid to let the military in, I'm still going to be sneaking around corners stealth killing guards no matter the reason the game tells me I'm doing it.
But with characters it's different, I enjoy characters, I enjoy the likes of Dante, JC Denton, Kratos, the Prince from Katamari, Even if they hardly speak, I couldn't say play as the Cow from Kung Pow in Devil May Cry doing the same types of moves, it wouldn't work for me.

I started to question why this was when I have a passing care for the story, I think it might have to do with Image really, what works and what doesn't. I'd much rather play a Tennis game that looks like Tennis rather than playing Pong, in the same line of thought, I'd rather play as Kratos in GOW rather than a Cream Dounut because he acts the part well and by looking at him, you can pin-point the genre of game that he's from without a second glance.

On the more shallow side of things, I'm not going to pick up a game with a Shotgun welding Crow, no matter how much it kicks ass.