When did reading become a thing to hate?

[bangtheDANCE]

Ok I have to say I myself am a CoD4 freak, but I read everyday and to be honest gaining some intellect is something this world is starting to hate more and more... soon in schools you won't have to write an essay or read a book for class you'll have to interpret drawings and freaking draw a picture book for english or french class... The world now is just becoming stupider and stupider...

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Misread my statement/intent bro. I'm not saying all teachers are idiotic and cruel, I'm stating that its the ones that ARE that turn their students off the joy of reading. I've have great teachers, and I had insufferable assfuckers who made suicide appealing. Its been my bad luck that most of the insufferable teachers I've had were for courses I'd otherwise have loved.

yeah and so many teachers are "over worked", personally i'd love a fat full-time union paycheck for what amounts to a part time job with the 3+ months a year teachers have off

honestly most get into it for the wrong reason and have no business being there, i REALLY wished they had made teachers get re-certified every 5-10 years but they cried too much and the gov caved into them

That's just because the government-selected shit is just that, shit. There are good Canadian authors, but many move to the US because it sucks donkey balls here for publishing.

exactly but there's tons of published authors up here, it's just some canadian ones get offered jobs in the states teaching at colleges and universities.

and yeah i'm sure that english class in the states has a bunch of pretty craptastic books. i'm sure same goes for the uk and aussie land and as stephen colbert said aussie land light aka new zealand

tho i do wonder what they call english class in england? it's along the same lines of what do they call brazil nuts in brazil?

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Books I read in English that I enjoyed: The Dark Knight Returns.

Really? In English Class?

Yes. Best. English teacher. Ever. That was one of the books my teacher picked out when the board required English 101 teachers to pick two novels on top of the textbook. Our textbook was an in-depth study on the history of comic books, and the other novel was an anthology of comics drawn by females.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

yeah and so many teachers are "over worked", personally i'd love a fat full-time union paycheck for what amounts to a part time job with the 3+ months a year teachers have off

As I said on another thread, back off on this one cleverlymadeup, there's a lot of astounding teachers out there that work far more than they're actually paid for.

The real reason that a lot of teachers are rubbish is that the schools pay for the cheapest. Most of the high-grade teachers simply cannot get a job in this country because no school will pay for them; so they get row after row of assistant teachers who couldn't teach a school of fish to swim.

There are some really bad apples in the bucket, but tell me a profession that hasn't got some eedjets.

I agree with you on the re-certification, but remember that the certifiers themselves are often full of dipshits.

Edit : And as if to prove my point, read the post above. Bravo to that man.

 

[Geoffrey42]

yeah and so many teachers are "over worked", personally i'd love a fat full-time union paycheck for what amounts to a part time job with the 3+ months a year teachers have off

Maybe it is different in Canuckistan, but that is not the case in the US. At least down here, teachers are paid for the months they work, with up to 3 months of unpaid 'vacation', which often get filled with crap jobs to cover the cost of living.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

The real reason that a lot of teachers are rubbish is that the schools pay for the cheapest. Most of the high-grade teachers simply cannot get a job in this country because no school will pay for them; so they get row after row of assistant teachers who couldn't teach a school of fish to swim.

There are some really bad apples in the bucket, but tell me a profession that hasn't got some eedjets.

i'm not disputing the fact that there are some great ones, i've had a few of them myself, but there are too many of them i've heard complain about "how bad they have it compared to ppl in other fields" when really they are just crying to hear their own voice, i doubt many of them work 12+ hours for the full year minus 3 weeks vacation

i know two teachers, who are at the high end of the pay scale, they honestly laugh at the ones who complain and call them stupid.

most subjects, besides computers, are fairly static in the curriculum, it doesn't change much from year to year, so when you become a teacher you spend the first year to two making your lesson plan for the course and after than you change the date on the hand out to the current date and your lesson plan is done. that was actually both teachers saying to do that.

now granted some kids are more difficult to deal with than others but just toss them out of the class, send them to the office.

i know there are idiots everywhere, i work as a network tech and deal with a person who's been in their roll for 20+ years giving me a deer in headlights stare when you ask them what programs they use on a daily basis and claim they don't know computers.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

Maybe it is different in Canuckistan, but that is not the case in the US. At least down here, teachers are paid for the months they work, with up to 3 months of unpaid 'vacation', which often get filled with crap jobs to cover the cost of living.

yes but the times they do work, they are making the money a person would for a full time job would working for the full year

ie they're being paid $40k/yr plus vacation time for 10 months, the other month is an combination of various days off a year such as spring break and christmas

where a factory worker is working 11.5 months for $40K/yr plus vacation time

and you can live fairly well on your own with $40k/yr, you won't be living in a mansion but you won't be dirt poor

the fact they get "crap jobs" is them stupidly spending their paycheque every week, it's not hard to put $50/week aside so you have some extra money when you aren't working during the summer, especially when you know you won't be paid for those times

 

[Geoffrey42]

... i doubt many of them work 12+ hours for the full year minus 3 weeks vacation

i know two teachers, who are at the high end of the pay scale, they honestly laugh at the ones who complain and call them stupid.

most subjects, besides computers, are fairly static in the curriculum, it doesn't change much from year to year, so when you become a teacher you spend the first year to two making your lesson plan for the course and after than you change the date on the hand out to the current date and your lesson plan is done. that was actually both teachers saying to do that.

One: 12+ hours? What? I'd say most teachers work 8 hour days, 40 hour weeks. The good ones tend to work more, but I'd estimate more on the average of 10 hour days. Anyone in the 12+ per day range is probably at the tail end of the distribution.

Two: I would posit that your two example teachers are not exactly shining exemplars of the institution. How many people here fondly remember the teachers that were still using the hand-outs referring to Russia as the USSR?

 

[Geoffrey42]

yes but the times they do work, they are making the money a person would for a full time job would working for the full year

ie they're being paid $40k/yr plus vacation time for 10 months, the other month is an combination of various days off a year such as spring break and christmas

where a factory worker is working 11.5 months for $40K/yr plus vacation time

and you can live fairly well on your own with $40k/yr, you won't be living in a mansion but you won't be dirt poor

the fact they get "crap jobs" is them stupidly spending their paycheque every week, it's not hard to put $50/week aside so you have some extra money when you aren't working during the summer, especially when you know you won't be paid for those times

So, now we're comparing factory work (GED optional) with individuals that have Bachelor's degrees, at a minimum? Well, hell. Nobody can complain about salary then, can they? As long as you're making more than a living wage, you should be content that you're being paid what you're worth.

Let's not factor in at all what college degrees cost in terms of opportunity costs of 4 years worth of labor. Last I heard, the average is something like 7 years after graduating with a bachelors to reach equilibrium, and then overcome, the financial position you would've been in had you just started working straight out of college. Past that 7 year mark, it keeps going up, so you're more and more better off. But if going to college and becoming a teacher gets you no more than you would've had had you just gone straight into a factory, then you're actually operating at a loss.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Here in Brazil playing videogames, excluding Winning Eleven and GTA, is a thing to be ashamed of, just like reading.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

One: 12+ hours? What? I'd say most teachers work 8 hour days, 40 hour weeks. The good ones tend to work more, but I'd estimate more on the average of 10 hour days. Anyone in the 12+ per day range is probably at the tail end of the distribution.

i know TONS of ppl who work 10 hours or more a day on a regular basis, i'm pretty sure there's a few ppl who work at the themis group that much.

Two: I would posit that your two example teachers are not exactly shining exemplars of the institution. How many people here fondly remember the teachers that were still using the hand-outs referring to Russia as the USSR?

actually those teachers are probly more of a stand out cause of their eccentricities, so i'd say a lot of them are

So, now we're comparing factory work (GED optional) with individuals that have Bachelor's degrees, at a minimum? Well, hell. Nobody can complain about salary then, can they? As long as you're making more than a living wage, you should be content that you're being paid what you're worth.

but you aren't being paid what you're worth, if that was the case then a farmer would be the highest paid person in society but they aren't, it's the ppl with more education that are "worth more"

look at a doctor, you can go years without needing one but you can't go for more than a few days without the need of someone playing the roll of farmer

Let's not factor in at all what college degrees cost in terms of opportunity costs of 4 years worth of labor. Last I heard, the average is something like 7 years after graduating with a bachelors to reach equilibrium, and then overcome, the financial position you would've been in had you just started working straight out of college. Past that 7 year mark, it keeps going up, so you're more and more better off. But if going to college and becoming a teacher gets you no more than you would've had had you just gone straight into a factory, then you're actually operating at a loss.

$40k/yr is about average for a factory worker believe it or not, those in car plants start at $45k/yr or higher. i remember hearing gm employees complain they couldn't afford gas for their plane cause they were stopping overtime work

however $40k is the higher end of the starting wage of a teacher. so they are getting a bit of a raw deal but 7 years is a bit long, i'd say it's a lot shorter but they end up spending all their money in stupid ways.

that last comment applies to more than just teachers

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

actually canaada does have some good authors, farley mowatt is one of them, tho some of his sutff is a bit bland

there's also mordecai richler, ed greenwood (of eliminster and forgotten realms fame), margaret atwood, jean little (i actually used to talk to her lots without knowing who she really was), robert munsch (well he's adopted canadian but his daughter is smoking hot), cory doctrow, leslie macfarlane (aka franklin w. dixon author of the hardy boys)

but have you read any american books on the pioneers and such? they suck just as much, look at grapes of wrath

and also why would we read stories about american history in canada? i do believe we live in CANADA and not america, there is no can-con rules for literature in school it's only a tv and radio thing

There is a difference between what is commonly considered "Can-Lit" and Fiction written by Canadian Authors. Canada does have good authors, but most of them reside in genre fiction and tend to say "fuck you" to the standard themes of Can-Lit and write about interesting subjects as opposed to stupidly boring ones. Examples of some of these awesome Canadian Authors being R. Scott Bakker, Guy Gavriel Kay, Charles De Lint, Stephen Hunt, Spider Robinson and others.

I'm pretty sure the Educational Curriculum in Canada requires a certain amount of Canadian Literature to be taught. Which is somewhat similar to the Can-Con laws for Radio and TV, as in we are having "canadian culture" rammed down our throats.

I'm not a fan of Atwood personally, I find her a bit boring and REALLY pretentious, and I can't say I've been exposed to some of the authors on that list but I agree with you about Munsch, Little and Greenwood, they're all quite enjoyable.

The problem with "Canadian Literature" as it is defined by Univesities and Academic Types , is that it is about paralyzingly BORING subject matter. Often containing long drawn out meandering plots based around frontier life, identity crisis', the influence of geography on life and a general unwillingness to build "myth" and an avoidance of real conflict. I suppose it is a positive commentary on Canadian life in general, most literature from this country being about peaceful and argueably boring subject matter, but it sure as HELL makes for lousy reading.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Stephen King is from Bangor, Maine. I believe that's fairly close to Canada.

 

[Geoffrey42]

i know TONS of ppl who work 10 hours or more a day on a regular basis, i'm pretty sure there's a few ppl who work at the themis group that much.

http://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/home.htm
Average time spent working per day on work days: 8.2 hours.

actually those teachers are probly more of a stand out cause of their eccentricities, so i'd say a lot of them are

I didn't ask if they stood out, I asked if your memories of them as a teacher were fond.

but you aren't being paid what you're worth, if that was the case then a farmer would be the highest paid person in society but they aren't, it's the ppl with more education that are "worth more"

look at a doctor, you can go years without needing one but you can't go for more than a few days without the need of someone playing the roll of farmer

Doctors also spend many, many, MANY more years in school and barely paid jobs to get where they are, not to mention the productivity-feedback loop they provide in terms of keeping the population healthy and working. Not that I don't believe that Doctors are overpaid in the US in the long-run... Farmers are important, but so are doctors, and their salaries reflect this. The argument from teachers is that they are undervalued, because we give car manufacturing and educating our children a similar worth.

$40k/yr is about average for a factory worker believe it or not, those in car plants start at $45k/yr or higher. i remember hearing gm employees complain they couldn't afford gas for their plane cause they were stopping overtime work

however $40k is the higher end of the starting wage of a teacher. so they are getting a bit of a raw deal but 7 years is a bit long, i'd say it's a lot shorter but they end up spending all their money in stupid ways.

that last comment applies to more than just teachers

[a href=http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2004/01/dispelling_the.html?t=archive]Average US Manufacturing Salary: $54,000[/a]
[a href=http://www.nea.org/neatodayextra/salaries.html]Average US public school teacher salary: $47,674[/a]

The entire point is that they're getting a raw deal, especially if they average over their lifetime less than people that never incurred the cost of going to college. At some point, you begin discouraging people from entering the profession, and you find yourself without anyone to educate the next generation.

And, that last comment doesn't just apply to more people than teachers, it applies to everyone. People live up to and beyond their means. [a href=http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/SavingandDebt/P70581.asp]43% of US households overspend their earnings, average of $8000 in credit card debt.[/a] Thus, I think the most important thing to say here, is that your comment is irrelevant to the discussion about teachers and their wages.

 

[cleverlymadeup]

There is a difference between what is commonly considered "Can-Lit" and Fiction written by Canadian Authors. Canada does have good authors, but most of them reside in genre fiction and tend to say "fuck you" to the standard themes of Can-Lit and write about interesting subjects as opposed to stupidly boring ones. Examples of some of these awesome Canadian Authors being R. Scott Bakker, Guy Gavriel Kay, Charles De Lint, Stephen Hunt, Spider Robinson and others.

but the same could be said about any country's author, like american-lit

and i totally forgot about spider robinson

I'm pretty sure the Educational Curriculum in Canada requires a certain amount of Canadian Literature to be taught. Which is somewhat similar to the Can-Con laws for Radio and TV, as in we are having "canadian culture" rammed down our throats.

some of it is VERY bad and i hate but it's also very necessary because without it we would have american culture shoved down our throats

look at quebec where they have both cancon AND the french language laws

I'm not a fan of Atwood personally, I find her a bit boring and REALLY pretentious, and I can't say I've been exposed to some of the authors on that list but I agree with you about Munsch, Little and Greenwood, they're all quite enjoyable.

and i'm shocked you don't know who mordecai is, his most famous book kids know is jacob two two and the hooded fang, older ppl know the apprenticeship of duddy kravtiz. both are movies

yeah jean is nice, she can be a bit crabby at times, i used to talk to her a lot and see her around a lot but had no idea who she was until i saw her picture, she told me and my friends her name but wasn't like "i'm jean little the children's author"

as for atwood i don't like her, too girly for my likes

The problem with "Canadian Literature" as it is defined by Univesities and Academic Types , is that it is about paralyzingly BORING subject matter. Often containing long drawn out meandering plots based around frontier life, identity crisis', the influence of geography on life and a general unwillingness to build "myth" and an avoidance of real conflict. I suppose it is a positive commentary on Canadian life in general, most literature from this country being about peaceful and argueably boring subject matter, but it sure as HELL makes for lousy reading.

well our history isn't overly colourful and kinda boring. so really there's not much to write about in literature that would be exciting, the metis revolt, the war of 1812, flq crisis and maybe the '72 series

tho some of those topics are very relevant such as the identity crisis, we're stuck as a society, we aren't british but we aren't american, i say we're americans with more common sense cause the "i spilled hot coffee on myself so i'm going to sue the company who sold it to me" type cases don't fly in canada and we don't really have a national identity as it is but that is a whole other topic

but yeah that rest is boring as hell, i fully agree

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

i'm not disputing the fact that there are some great ones, i've had a few of them myself, but there are too many of them i've heard complain about "how bad they have it compared to ppl in other fields" when really they are just crying to hear their own voice, i doubt many of them work 12+ hours for the full year minus 3 weeks vacation

All I wanted to hear. Thanks. (Sorry, but attacking my parent's chosen profession does get me riled)

And what teachers have to deal with; which other profession's rarely have to is : Child Abuse, Child Death, Starvation due to Religious Fastings, Child Sexual Abuse, Violent Parents, Being lower on the chart than some worse teachers, Sports Day, Plays, School Trips, False Accusations of Bullying/Abuse, Two hours of marking each night (Imagine trawling /b/ looking for spelling mistakes), Playground Duty (Renamed Call of Duty), Exams, Wetting/Puberty/Rebellion (depending on the age your teaching), Unrequited Love from a Child, Crippling Budgets... Need I go on?

My first day was spending 16 hours wiping a selection of viruses left by a previous disgruntled teacher.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

All I wanted to hear. Thanks. (Sorry, but attacking my parent's chosen profession does get me riled)

And what teachers have to deal with; which other profession's rarely have to is : Child Abuse, Child Death, Starvation due to Religious Fastings, Child Sexual Abuse, Violent Parents, Being lower on the chart than some worse teachers, Sports Day, Plays, School Trips, False Accusations of Bullying/Abuse, Two hours of marking each night (Imagine trawling /b/ looking for spelling mistakes), Playground Duty (Renamed Call of Duty), Exams, Wetting/Puberty/Rebellion (depending on the age your teaching), Unrequited Love from a Child, Crippling Budgets... Need I go on?

My first day was spending 16 hours wiping a selection of viruses left by a previous disgruntled teacher.

My mother-in-law is a teacher, I agree, holy hell they have it hard, and don't get paid NEARLY enough for their efforts.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Whew... got done reading the thread. How fitting that I just finished Fahrenheit 451.

I find it interesting that so many enjoy reading but few seem to have many (positive) things to say about analysis. Though I concede that the subjectivity of analysis and the busy work nature of it being taught in school.
Teacher:"Repeat after me 'Shakespeare made many a work of art because of the prose and the timeless nature of the plots'"
Students(Droning):"Shakespeare made many a work of art because of the prose and the timeless nature of the plots"

Funnily enough I didn't really develop a taste for applied psychology or the exploration of human interaction until after lit analysis and film analysis helped me understand EM-PA-THEE or MO-TEH-VAY-SHUN. People often get things completely wrong, but that comes with the territory of people guessing deeper meaning of anything another human puts forth. Finding deeper meaning appears to be just another puzzle to me.

---

I have mixed feelings and mixed anecdotal evidence about people enjoying the act of reading less. I had a roommate who seemed to be against the idea of "elitist intelligentsia" (my vocabulary not his), but loved to read. Yet I often meet people who simply have no patience for any drawn out activity that doesn't have an immediately self-evident gratifying point.

I'm afraid I can't think of any particular answers for fostering the desire to read, but I hope one might understand how the act of analysis might be more fun, or derivations of the skill more useful.

--Edited for readability (and the last paragraph for specification)--