When does accessibility become 'hand-holding'?

[Pink Gregory]

Something that came to mind lookin' at the raft of Dark Souls difficulty threads, and the term 'hand-holding' seems to come up a whole bunch when referring to especially modern releases.

So when do you chaps believe that accessibility goes too far, and becomes 'hand-holding'?

 

[TrevHead]

I think it's very much a personal thing, one person will already know how to play the game or have fun working it out themselves through trial and error, while on the opposite end of the scale a person who can't be arsed discovering the most fundamental things and wants everything signposted. One person can flip from one extreme to another, like if they are tired and just want some casual entertainment.

I'm very much of the opinion that many games would be better if the worst handholding was moved out of the main game, in separate tutorials or in a manual, or an ingame manual that's easily accessible while playing the game

Or even better make a special "I can't be arsed using my brain" difficulty mode

 

[Twilight_guy]

When the player personally decides it is. It's not even based on how much the game does it but rather how its implemented and the player's own ideas. For example, the first part of portal holds your hand so much its almost ridiculous. Yet, nobody calls it hand holding. When Dark souls has an unintended glitch, people call it ruined forever because Dark Souls is 'Hard'. In old school games, where nothing was explained and you had to look up everything from somewhere else, people called it cool because it didn't hold your hand, when in reality early games just had very poor ability to convey information. As a result in some recent games, if you explain anything the player will call it 'hand-holding'. It's not really something that you qualify easily since it differs for every person. However I do know the term is often used as a vapid attack that people pull out because they don't like a game.

 

[skywolfblue]

Something that came to mind lookin' at the raft of Dark Souls difficulty threads, and the term 'hand-holding' seems to come up a whole bunch when referring to especially modern releases.

So when do you chaps believe that accessibility goes too far, and becomes 'hand-holding'?

When I'm delayed from playing the bloody game.

I don't mind if the game has popups to say "press X to Y" or something like that but if it actively stops me from playing to say "hey, DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN PRESS R2 TO SHOOT YOUR GUN. DID YA KNOW THAT. HUH?????? HUH????? DID YA??????????????????"

Then is annoys me a bit.

I agree with this. The game can be super easy, but it's not "handholding" till the game comes along and purposely takes control away from you.

 

[Swyftstar]

It's a fine line and it differs from player to player and sometimes it may even differ from game to game. Sometimes it's obviously excessive and you just hope there is an option to turn tutorials off.

When I'm delayed from playing the bloody game.

I don't mind if the game has popups to say "press X to Y" or something like that but if it actively stops me from playing to say "hey, DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN PRESS R2 TO SHOOT YOUR GUN. DID YA KNOW THAT. HUH?????? HUH????? DID YA??????????????????"

Then is annoys me a bit.

I recently just started playing Kingdoms of Amalur and right in the middle of a hectic fight in which I already had low health from a previous one, a large box telling me to remember to press the left and right triggers to enter god mode pops up and obscures the screen so I can't see what the hell I'm doing and I end up having to hit the two triggers just to survive the DAMN FIGHT!!!
Deep breaths, deep breaths, ooosaa, ooosaa.

 

[MidnightSt]

So when do you chaps believe that accessibility goes too far, and becomes 'hand-holding'?

basically, from "point zero" (no implementation of interface) to a certain point (that varies from game to game) adding accessibility means making the interface more and more functional, well designed, and usable. Immediately from that certain point (which is basically "the best and clearest and easiest to use interface possible without giving you any explicit hint/help/tutorial messages") any other accessibility addition is handholding.

Example: Assassin's Creed 1 with its interactive display of contextual functions in upper right corner is exactly at that sweet spot of perfect interface. Tells you all you need to know, and shoves nothing right into your face. Batman: Arkham City with its "contextual tutorial messages" across the center of the screen (you go of gliding, the text "You can gain speed by diving by pushing the right stick forwards", you do that, the text "Now you can gain height by pushing the right stick backwards") is far, FAR beyond that sweet spot, and is actually a silly and obtrusive handholding.

Not all hand-holding is bad, though, if I encounter some object for the first time (AC2 spring boards), it's nice to have it explained - ONCE. However, game giving me unrequested tips on how to defeat certain enemies? (Again, AC2 tips on light/heavy soldiers) Too much, that's a thing I should be left to discover for myself. It's hard to really define accurately and universally at the same time where good interface ends, appropriate amount of handholding begins, and where that ends and annoying handholding begins. It can be done only on game-to-game basis.

 

[TrevHead]

I'm playing Mirrors Edge atm (kinda surprised at myself that I haven't played this sooner) and imo this game is quite good at not handholding.

The red marked runner vision is a good way of signposting new platform elements aswell as normal route the player can go, which from what I understand the red shows less and less further into the game. (plus runner vision can be turned off)

It's basically the same thing as the shiny metal in Enslaved, but because that world is so busy with all the colours and rust the devs have no option but to signpost every single platforming piece which detracts from it's enjoyment and almost feels like handholding.

ME also has a separate skippable tutorial too, which while good teaching players how to platform although fails in the combat side

EDIT It might be a good thing for some games to have something akin to a difficulty slider for handholding.

 

[Mirroga]

Excessive UI hint popups are where I consider it to be handholding. If a new skill or gameplay mechanic is implemented, introduce what it brings new on the table, explain its versatility and specs, and then never EVER talk about that mechanic/skill ever again. I don't like redundant tutorials.

 

[mjc0961]

When I'm delayed from playing the bloody game.

I don't mind if the game has popups to say "press X to Y" or something like that but if it actively stops me from playing to say "hey, DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN PRESS R2 TO SHOOT YOUR GUN. DID YA KNOW THAT. HUH?????? HUH????? DID YA??????????????????"

Then is annoys me a bit.

You know what, this sounds about right actually. I get pissed off rather quickly when a game keeps taking control away from me to show me something obvious and then refuses to give it back in a timely fashion. Probably not a fair example because it's a PS2 game and most of the people you hear using "hand-holding" like a buzz word are talking about newer titles, but I was playing Ratchet and Clank Going Commando in the HD collection and it had a really stupid moment where it did this. I enter this round circular area and it takes control away to point the camera at a bridge extending and a horde of enemies running across it. Okay, cool, I see them coming, let me play now. "No" the game says. It makes me keep watching until they have all crossed the bridge. Did you think I am stupid, game? Did you think I would forget about them and go look for flowers if you didn't keep the camera on them long enough? Stop wasting my time and let me shoot these bastards.

Also fuck the taxis. Why do they have to take the longest possible route back to my ship? Why am I nailed to them while they fly past my ship and take me further into the level? Why do I have to wait for them to come to a complete stop for them to jump off and why does it take several seconds for them to come to a complete stop? LET ME OFF THIS GODDAMN THING SO I CAN FUCKING PLAY!! ... I guess that has nothing to do with handholding at all. I just hate hate HATE it when games waste my time for no good reason.

 

[Ferisar]

I call Castlevania, Lords of Shadow handholding.

Because when I jump the tenth ledge in the same way I've jumped the last nine, I don't need to know which buttons to click, thanks game.

Essentially, I personally find "hand holding" anything that repeats key gameplay information and provides hints for puzzles that nullify the experience of finding a solution in the first place. This applies to every boss fight ever which gets paused and explained by the game, so all that's left at that point is the execution. There is no reason at all to create game mechanics if you plan to not let the player have any say in how they use them.

I would say this extends to games that provide you extremely obvious visual clues akin to game pauses and camera control wrestling for the sake of nothing more than literally handing you a correct route/point of view that you should be taking. It's a bit more personal though, and I can see where others may find it convenient in having help navigating awkward layouts.

 

[Evil Smurf]

when the difficulty makes it so that the enemies are weaker then normal, it should change the ai smartness

 

[scorptatious]

Something that came to mind lookin' at the raft of Dark Souls difficulty threads, and the term 'hand-holding' seems to come up a whole bunch when referring to especially modern releases.

So when do you chaps believe that accessibility goes too far, and becomes 'hand-holding'?

When I'm delayed from playing the bloody game.

I don't mind if the game has popups to say "press X to Y" or something like that but if it actively stops me from playing to say "hey, DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN PRESS R2 TO SHOOT YOUR GUN. DID YA KNOW THAT. HUH?????? HUH????? DID YA??????????????????"

Then is annoys me a bit.

I can agree with this. It can be pretty annoying if a game stops you from playing just to tell you something you already know.

I think it's very much a personal thing, one person will already know how to play the game or have fun working it out themselves through trial and error, while on the opposite end of the scale a person who can't be arsed discovering the most fundamental things and wants everything signposted. One person can flip from one extreme to another, like if they are tired and just want some casual entertainment.

I'm very much of the opinion that many games would be better if the worst handholding was moved out of the main game, in separate tutorials or in a manual, or an ingame manual that's easily accessible while playing the game

Or even better make a special "I can't be arsed using my brain" difficulty mode

I'm personally in between the spectrum. I'd like the game to give me the basics and at least some idea of what I'm supposed to be doing. After that, I think the game should let you figure certain things out on your own for the most part.

 

[sammysoso]

It's a really difficult balance to find, making a game challenging but not frustrating.

To me, I only dislike it when the UI gets intrusive: "Do this. Do that. Go Here. Shoot that"

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

As with most things, I'd like to hold up the original Deus Ex as an example of a game that doesn't hold your hand.

It has fairly complex gameplay (for the time definitely, and to some degree even still today compared to many modern FPS titles), but it doesn't spend the first hour of the game setting up highly specific scenarios in a completely linear fashion specifically to teach you the controls. Rather, it has a completely optional tutorial that does that, designed to look like you're taking a UNATCO training course.

When you start your first game it will ask if you want to do the tutorial before jumping into the story, and if you feel confident that you don't need it, all you have to do is click no and you're done. If you get into the game and decide you need it, all you have to do is save your game and exit to the main menu, where you can start the tutorial at any time without having to start the main game over again.

Rock on, Deus Ex!

 

[Something Amyss]

A game shouldn't solve itself. There's nothing wrong with making an easier difficulty for Dark Souls, elitists who are worried about their badge of honour being taken away are just equating it with hand holding. Nobody wants that.

 

[daveman247]

-when the game keeps repeating the controls.

-When the game asks you to solve a puzzle, but then shows a cutscene to what the solution is etc. Tomb raider underworld did it best, where there were no hints at all. But if you were stuck you could look at lara's journal for a little hint, and if need be, press A to get a big hint.

- constant waypoint chasing. A few games do this right, they let you find you're own way, and if im in the same area for 4 mins or so. It shows me where to go because i have obviously lost my way . Any waypoints at all in a linear game is not ok, because there is only one way to go! Although the constant waypoints of gta and sleeping dogs was a little annoying.

 

[daveman247]

A game shouldn't solve itself. There's nothing wrong with making an easier difficulty for Dark Souls, elitists who are worried about their badge of honour being taken away are just equating it with hand holding. Nobody wants that.

i think they should take the splosion man/ ms splosion man route. Take the easy mode and you must wear a pink dress/ get a fat ass

Or more serious: They would have to segregate the players so only easy players can play with easy players etc to keep it balanced. They would also have to make it so you can't change the difficulty mid-game. Gotta keep it fair

 

[DeadlyYellow]

When I'm delayed from playing the bloody game.

I don't mind if the game has popups to say "press X to Y" or something like that but if it actively stops me from playing to say "hey, DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN PRESS R2 TO SHOOT YOUR GUN. DID YA KNOW THAT. HUH?????? HUH????? DID YA??????????????????"

Then is annoys me a bit.

Better yet, when the popups can only be closed by a menu button rather than a play button.

 

[BiggyShackleton]

-when the game keeps repeating the controls.

-When the game asks you to solve a puzzle, but then shows a cutscene to what the solution is etc. Tomb raider underworld did it best, where there were no hints at all. But if you were stuck you could look at lara's journal for a little hint, and if need be, press A to get a big hint.

Pretty sure Starfox Adventures did this as well, rendered most of the puzzles fucking useless when they could be solved by pressing one button. I know you didn't have to use it but it was annoying when the puzzles weren't exactly brain teasers.