When does someone deserve death?

[the spud]

The Revenge of the Snip

Well, this is a different argument, but is it really better to lock a person up than to kill him? I, personally, would rather die, but whatever.

Really, it comes down to Consequentialism Vs. Deontology. Is it better to save money by killing such "bad people" and not let them soak up tax dollars, or is it better to quarantine them so they can do no more harm. They do nothing productive and cost more, but you are more "in the right", I guess.

Personally, since the "Life in Prison>Death" is questionable at best, I think it is probably a lot more efficient to employ the death penalty. But I can definitely see your point of view. You are technically "more in the right", but I just don't know if it is worth it to the rest of us.

Life in prison has to be better than death because "good" is derived from the living experience.

Well, all right, that's debatable, but that is an entirely different argument. I enjoyed the debate, but I've got some Deus Ex to play. See you later.

 

[Particulate]

1) Shoot him. I carry every day. Easy answer

2) It would depend on the circumstances. If it was in cold blood or part of a contract killing then its death for them. Crime of Passion though? Life in Prison without Parole. Let them rot for the rest of their days and think about what they did.

I'm for the death penalty. There's simply some crimes which merit death.

hm, why do some crimes merit death?

Due to their nature or the indifference to the human condition. Examples:

Rape
Physically Abusing a Child
Sexually Abusing a Child
Physically Abusing a Senior Citizen
Sexually Abusing a Senior Citizen
Physically Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped
Sexually Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped


I'm sure you're seeing a theme here. There's very little that's more damaging to a person's emotional and mental health than repeated physical abuse or sexual assault. Regardless of gender, regardless of who the aggressor is. To me there's simply a line that no person should find themselves compelled to cross and doing so should result in nothing short of a speedy trial followed by a needle.

you didn't answer my question. why do those crimes merit the death of the criminal?

I did answer your question. "Because of their nature or the indifference to the human condition". Because if you're willing to abandon your humanity out of lust or rage then you do not deserve to live, not even amongst criminals.

but why don't you deserve to live? (the question I've been asking)

I've already said it. A few times.

If you're the sort of person that repeatedly, willingly, and maliciously does physical harm to someone that cannot defend themselves or the kind of person that would force themselves on another person sexually then there's no place for you in any form of civil society or even the controlled environment of a prison system.

 

[zehydra]

The Revenge of the Snip

Well, this is a different argument, but is it really better to lock a person up than to kill him? I, personally, would rather die, but whatever.

Really, it comes down to Consequentialism Vs. Deontology. Is it better to save money by killing such "bad people" and not let them soak up tax dollars, or is it better to quarantine them so they can do no more harm. They do nothing productive and cost more, but you are more "in the right", I guess.

Personally, since the "Life in Prison>Death" is questionable at best, I think it is probably a lot more efficient to employ the death penalty. But I can definitely see your point of view. You are technically "more in the right", but I just don't know if it is worth it to the rest of us.

Life in prison has to be better than death because "good" is derived from the living experience.

Well, all right, that's debatable, but that is an entirely different argument. I enjoyed the debate, but I've got some Deus Ex to play. See you later.

lol yep. for a different thread another day

 

[zehydra]

1) Shoot him. I carry every day. Easy answer

2) It would depend on the circumstances. If it was in cold blood or part of a contract killing then its death for them. Crime of Passion though? Life in Prison without Parole. Let them rot for the rest of their days and think about what they did.

I'm for the death penalty. There's simply some crimes which merit death.

hm, why do some crimes merit death?

Due to their nature or the indifference to the human condition. Examples:

Rape
Physically Abusing a Child
Sexually Abusing a Child
Physically Abusing a Senior Citizen
Sexually Abusing a Senior Citizen
Physically Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped
Sexually Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped


I'm sure you're seeing a theme here. There's very little that's more damaging to a person's emotional and mental health than repeated physical abuse or sexual assault. Regardless of gender, regardless of who the aggressor is. To me there's simply a line that no person should find themselves compelled to cross and doing so should result in nothing short of a speedy trial followed by a needle.

you didn't answer my question. why do those crimes merit the death of the criminal?

I did answer your question. "Because of their nature or the indifference to the human condition". Because if you're willing to abandon your humanity out of lust or rage then you do not deserve to live, not even amongst criminals.

but why don't you deserve to live? (the question I've been asking)

I've already said it. A few times.

If you're the sort of person that repeatedly, willingly, and maliciously does physical harm to someone that cannot defend themselves or the kind of person that would force themselves on another person sexually then there's no place for you in any form of civil society or even the controlled environment of a prison system.

How about a prison system of solitary confinement 23 hours a day? (these do exist)

 

[Particulate]

1) Shoot him. I carry every day. Easy answer

2) It would depend on the circumstances. If it was in cold blood or part of a contract killing then its death for them. Crime of Passion though? Life in Prison without Parole. Let them rot for the rest of their days and think about what they did.

I'm for the death penalty. There's simply some crimes which merit death.

hm, why do some crimes merit death?

Due to their nature or the indifference to the human condition. Examples:

Rape
Physically Abusing a Child
Sexually Abusing a Child
Physically Abusing a Senior Citizen
Sexually Abusing a Senior Citizen
Physically Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped
Sexually Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped


I'm sure you're seeing a theme here. There's very little that's more damaging to a person's emotional and mental health than repeated physical abuse or sexual assault. Regardless of gender, regardless of who the aggressor is. To me there's simply a line that no person should find themselves compelled to cross and doing so should result in nothing short of a speedy trial followed by a needle.

you didn't answer my question. why do those crimes merit the death of the criminal?

I did answer your question. "Because of their nature or the indifference to the human condition". Because if you're willing to abandon your humanity out of lust or rage then you do not deserve to live, not even amongst criminals.

but why don't you deserve to live? (the question I've been asking)

I've already said it. A few times.

If you're the sort of person that repeatedly, willingly, and maliciously does physical harm to someone that cannot defend themselves or the kind of person that would force themselves on another person sexually then there's no place for you in any form of civil society or even the controlled environment of a prison system.

How about a prison system of solitary confinement 23 hours a day? (these do exist)

Are you aware of how much it costs to maintain a single person in prison? Why allow someone to brutalize someone else in a manner that few people every recover from AND THEN put a financial burden on the community?

 

[chadachada123]

Self-defense always allows for death. That's pretty self-explanatory and outside the scope of this thread.

As far as "deserving" death, there are a couple of people in my life that have screwed me over so completely, have done everything in their power to make my life as miserable as possible, that I truly believe that they deserve a fate worse than death. I would, if given the chance, kill them if I knew that I would get away with it.

As far as legality goes, I am okay with the death penalty for certain cases. Cases like Charles Manson and the people in his family. Cases where the person fully admits to it or there is indisputable evidence that goes beyond "reasonable doubt" and is so absolute that there is not even unreasonable doubt, like being caught at the scene with video evidence showing the murders happening AND the perp being arrested all in the same shot.

Otherwise, life in prison OR allowing the inmate to choose. I, personally, would prefer death to 50 years in prison.

 

[chadachada123]

snippet

While you may be correct about the costs, they are another issue altogether. The US has the most ludicrous Law costs in the world, and most of the Jail system has been outsourced to private companies, again at a premium cost.

The question is about our moral choices and reactions. Those were given. However, if we start accounting every imperfection in this world, we'll get nowhere. We should strive to make a better system and to educate everyone so incidents like this are rarer and rarer. But I think it is too naïve to dodge the question and the morality behind it. I think that, under certain circumstances, anyone will do anything.

Also, in a perfect world, no one would commit heinous crimes, so, it's a moot point.

A huge amount of our problems, and a GIGANTIC chunk of the costs, would be solved by legalizing marijuana alone. But that would require the powers in charge to actually give a damn about anything besides money and power.

 

[zehydra]

1) Shoot him. I carry every day. Easy answer

2) It would depend on the circumstances. If it was in cold blood or part of a contract killing then its death for them. Crime of Passion though? Life in Prison without Parole. Let them rot for the rest of their days and think about what they did.

I'm for the death penalty. There's simply some crimes which merit death.

hm, why do some crimes merit death?

Due to their nature or the indifference to the human condition. Examples:

Rape
Physically Abusing a Child
Sexually Abusing a Child
Physically Abusing a Senior Citizen
Sexually Abusing a Senior Citizen
Physically Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped
Sexually Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped


I'm sure you're seeing a theme here. There's very little that's more damaging to a person's emotional and mental health than repeated physical abuse or sexual assault. Regardless of gender, regardless of who the aggressor is. To me there's simply a line that no person should find themselves compelled to cross and doing so should result in nothing short of a speedy trial followed by a needle.

you didn't answer my question. why do those crimes merit the death of the criminal?

I did answer your question. "Because of their nature or the indifference to the human condition". Because if you're willing to abandon your humanity out of lust or rage then you do not deserve to live, not even amongst criminals.

but why don't you deserve to live? (the question I've been asking)

I've already said it. A few times.

If you're the sort of person that repeatedly, willingly, and maliciously does physical harm to someone that cannot defend themselves or the kind of person that would force themselves on another person sexually then there's no place for you in any form of civil society or even the controlled environment of a prison system.

How about a prison system of solitary confinement 23 hours a day? (these do exist)

Are you aware of how much it costs to maintain a single person in prison? Why allow someone to brutalize someone else in a manner that few people every recover from AND THEN put a financial burden on the community?

so it's an issue of cost then. This is not meant to be a criticism, but essentially your view is that criminals of these crimes deserve death because it is too costly to punish them properly, and they must be punished, so death penalty it is.

I suppose my next question would be, would you be willing to place criminals of a less serious crime in the prison system I have mentioned? For instance, there was a high-ranking US official who sold secrets to the Russians for years, and was caught I think a month or so before his retirement. He will now live in solitary confinement 23 hours a day for the rest of his life for treason. He did not commit any of the crimes you have mentioned, but our society deems it necessary to punish this crime to a severe magnitude. What should be done with him?

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

I see no need for death, only redemption. That being said, if someone is fully unwilling to change their ways, particularly if they kill or scar someone, whether physically, emotionally, or mentally then the only thing we can really do for them is... The inevitable. I believe everyone is able to redeem themselves no matter what, but they have to want to.

 

[-Samurai-]

Well, according to the average Escapist user, a person deserves death for doing anything at all. Step on an ant? Death! Defend yourself from an attacker and hurt them? Death! Call someone fat? DEATH!

Realistically, a person deserves death when they've killed another person in cold blood, and show obvious signs of being a constant danger to society and human life.

People can make mistakes and have momentary lapses of insanity or mental instability, and can sometimes be rehabilitated or may snap back into reality. Those people, while dangerous, are not as bad as the ones that, nomatter what, will kill again and again for the sheer enjoyment or thrill of it.

 

[superstringz]

Capital Punishment should go to: Human Trafficking (No Mercy!), Rape (If particularly heinous), Murder (If particularly heinous)
Michigan, USA - The State That Does Not Have A Death Penalty

Self defense and fighting on behalf of a sovereign power gets a pass.

 

[Kyoh]

As soon as they're born.

- Dark Souls

 

[Crazy]

For killing someone, unless it was accidental. An eye for an eye, eh?

 

[Suicidejim]

Unless it's a truly exceptional circumstance, such as an individual on the level of Stalin or Hitler who committed widespread atrocities, I do not believe in handing down the death sentence to criminals. I suppose I could also make an exception for serial murderers, too. Of course, this is all generalization, and the sentence could well vary depending on the details. If I wanted to justify keeping the others alive at taxpayer expense, I suppose some sort of forced labour or other productive activities could at least make up for a portion of the expenses used to sustain them (and I do mean something productive, not just busy work). Also, I am in favour of chemical castration for repeat sexual offenders.

Currently, I live in Ontario (that's Canada for those of you who aren't brushed up on your North American geography), but I have lived most of my life in the UK, so I guess I have a mix of perspectives.

 

[NightHawk21]

everyone deserves death eventually. People cant cause death they can only shorten life.

Really? Just are you serious? Do you think you are being wise or meta or something? Explain how everyone deserves death and how apparently its impossible to kill some.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Never. Death is a release, not a punishment.

Edit: rephrase.

 

[NightHawk21]

1) Shoot him. I carry every day. Easy answer

2) It would depend on the circumstances. If it was in cold blood or part of a contract killing then its death for them. Crime of Passion though? Life in Prison without Parole. Let them rot for the rest of their days and think about what they did.

I'm for the death penalty. There's simply some crimes which merit death.

hm, why do some crimes merit death?

Due to their nature or the indifference to the human condition. Examples:

Rape
Physically Abusing a Child
Sexually Abusing a Child
Physically Abusing a Senior Citizen
Sexually Abusing a Senior Citizen
Physically Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped
Sexually Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped


I'm sure you're seeing a theme here. There's very little that's more damaging to a person's emotional and mental health than repeated physical abuse or sexual assault. Regardless of gender, regardless of who the aggressor is. To me there's simply a line that no person should find themselves compelled to cross and doing so should result in nothing short of a speedy trial followed by a needle.

you didn't answer my question. why do those crimes merit the death of the criminal?

I did answer your question. "Because of their nature or the indifference to the human condition". Because if you're willing to abandon your humanity out of lust or rage then you do not deserve to live, not even amongst criminals.

but why don't you deserve to live? (the question I've been asking)

I've already said it. A few times.

If you're the sort of person that repeatedly, willingly, and maliciously does physical harm to someone that cannot defend themselves or the kind of person that would force themselves on another person sexually then there's no place for you in any form of civil society or even the controlled environment of a prison system.

How about a prison system of solitary confinement 23 hours a day? (these do exist)

Are you aware of how much it costs to maintain a single person in prison? Why allow someone to brutalize someone else in a manner that few people every recover from AND THEN put a financial burden on the community?

A lot less then it takes to kill a single person.

 

[Particulate]

1) Shoot him. I carry every day. Easy answer

2) It would depend on the circumstances. If it was in cold blood or part of a contract killing then its death for them. Crime of Passion though? Life in Prison without Parole. Let them rot for the rest of their days and think about what they did.

I'm for the death penalty. There's simply some crimes which merit death.

hm, why do some crimes merit death?

Due to their nature or the indifference to the human condition. Examples:

Rape
Physically Abusing a Child
Sexually Abusing a Child
Physically Abusing a Senior Citizen
Sexually Abusing a Senior Citizen
Physically Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped
Sexually Abusing someone that's mentally or physically handicapped


I'm sure you're seeing a theme here. There's very little that's more damaging to a person's emotional and mental health than repeated physical abuse or sexual assault. Regardless of gender, regardless of who the aggressor is. To me there's simply a line that no person should find themselves compelled to cross and doing so should result in nothing short of a speedy trial followed by a needle.

you didn't answer my question. why do those crimes merit the death of the criminal?

I did answer your question. "Because of their nature or the indifference to the human condition". Because if you're willing to abandon your humanity out of lust or rage then you do not deserve to live, not even amongst criminals.

but why don't you deserve to live? (the question I've been asking)

I've already said it. A few times.

If you're the sort of person that repeatedly, willingly, and maliciously does physical harm to someone that cannot defend themselves or the kind of person that would force themselves on another person sexually then there's no place for you in any form of civil society or even the controlled environment of a prison system.

How about a prison system of solitary confinement 23 hours a day? (these do exist)

Are you aware of how much it costs to maintain a single person in prison? Why allow someone to brutalize someone else in a manner that few people every recover from AND THEN put a financial burden on the community?

so it's an issue of cost then. This is not meant to be a criticism, but essentially your view is that criminals of these crimes deserve death because it is too costly to punish them properly, and they must be punished, so death penalty it is.

I suppose my next question would be, would you be willing to place criminals of a less serious crime in the prison system I have mentioned? For instance, there was a high-ranking US official who sold secrets to the Russians for years, and was caught I think a month or so before his retirement. He will now live in solitary confinement 23 hours a day for the rest of his life for treason. He did not commit any of the crimes you have mentioned, but our society deems it necessary to punish this crime to a severe magnitude. What should be done with him?

In his particular case I'd let him rot but not in solitary. Throw him in with the general population. Life sentence, no parole. He only goes to solitary if he contracts a contagious illness.

In my personal opinion only things that would be considered a crime of passion or accidental manslaughter should result in solitary. Because in those instances usually the biggest punishment is isolating someone with their own thoughts. Things like Assault, Drug Possession, and other serious but not quite severe or inhuman crimes should all be ran through the same general population meatgrinder. As for things like Murder or Possession with intent to distribute that would need to be a case by case basis dependent on the exact motivations and situations.

And note that when I say "Drug" I'm referring to Meth, Heroin, Cocaine, and other "hard" drugs... not marijuana which I believe should be farmed, legalized, and most of all taxed. Because unlike substances evan as mundane as alcohol.... no one ever smoked a bunch of pot and then beat up their spouse. They might have eaten all the food in the house or played a lot of Katamari though.