When 'grinding' is good

[TehCookie]

Actually no, you can beat the game right out the door. Granted it takes a lot of skill and patience, but it is possible. The only time you need to grind in Dark Souls is to compensate for a lack of skill in the game.

I love games like that, because it gives you another way to play the game if you don't have skill. Even in games like pokemon, you can face the gym leaders overleveled and use your one pokemon to steamroll everything or use a lower level team and exploit the weaknesses to win. With level scaling being the new thing it takes away the option of just putting in time and effort instead of skill. However in some games with the level scaling it doesn't even feel like you're leveling up and getting stronger since you're facing the same challenge you had at level 1.

Then again I love grind, I never do it by itself but if you're waiting for something to bake or watching a movie it's nice to be doing something else you don't have to think about. Grinding is kind of like my knitting.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

I love grinding in games like Kingdom Hearts and Shin Megami Tensei, I love seeing your work pay off!

I only play Pokemon with traded pokemon because grinding in those games sucks because the combat is so damn slow.

I may play Black again soon, does the extra experience from traded pokemon still work?

Yup and I think they may have boosted the extra exp even further this time, my traded ones usually get about 2000-5000 exp I shit you not.


Though they are from Events so that may be why.

 

[hermes]

No. Grinding is not good. It might be inconsecuencial, and some people don't mind it, but a game that requires grinding is not properly designed.

 

[Sean Hollyman]

I love grinding in games like Kingdom Hearts and Shin Megami Tensei, I love seeing your work pay off!

I only play Pokemon with traded pokemon because grinding in those games sucks because the combat is so damn slow.

I may play Black again soon, does the extra experience from traded pokemon still work?

Yup and I think they may have boosted the extra exp even further this time, my traded ones usually get about 2000-5000 exp I shit you not.


Though they are from Events so that may be why.

I am restarting Black and I will use my sisters White (she doesn't play it anymore) to trade Samurott, Emboar, Serperior, Galvantula, Golurk and Excadrill! *bad-ass team*

I hope to do this by the time Black and White 2 come out.

You'd be better off just trading the lower-levelled versions if you're just starting, because if you trade them at a high level they won't listen to you.

Plus if you trade them at a low level it'll be like you have just caught them, albeit with a lot more XP

One of the cool new features of Gen V is that now you don't have to trade a shitty Pokemon for a good one, you can just give one without needing anything in return.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Grinding is fine when it isn't a requirement to complete the game. Many RPGs have hidden dungeons that are much higher level than the final boss of the game and require you to grind levels or skills to make them achievable. This is perfectly fine with me since i have the choice to go into them or just to carry on and finish the game as normal. Lost oddyssey is a perfect example of this, as is infinite undiscovery.

If i had to spend 40 hours fighting the same stuff to stand a chance at the final boss then that isn't cool. The only game i can think of at the moment where this is the case is final fantasy 7. If you don't grind before the final boss then your going to die. Thankfully this was never a problem for me because i always grind a few extra levels where i can regardless of if i need to or not.

 

[The Wykydtron]

I have a strict anti-grinding policy. If I get to a boss fight woefully underleveled and get instakilled because I had the nerve to not wait around in Satan's Reception Area fighting his same secretaries over and over again I will most likely stop playing the game.

[sub]4am makes my examples a bit strange it seems[/sub]

It's why I like Persona 4 so much. You only do as much "grinding" as you want and the game is still beatable even when you're several levels below the bosses. The Social Link system has got to be the best anti-grinding system I have ever seen. Not to mention how it melds seamlessly into the story and overall theme of the game.

Go and play Persona 4 now if you haven't. Yes, you. No, I don't care if you're not one for JRPGs! Neither am I usually! This one basically transcends the genre because it's so good!

 

[Overusedname]

Grinding is always good when ya all up in the club and a pretty girl comes around with a itty bitty waist and a round thing in y-

...oh.

Uuuuhhh I like the battle systems of several games so much I find myself fighting over and over for shits and giggles. Tales of the abyss and Chrono trigger being major offenders of this. It's just so fun and it's rarely the same fight twice. And in the Tales series you can up the difficulty on the fly, so the game doesn't become automatically easy.

Good design choice there. If it feels good, do it.

...we talkin' 'bout games right?

 

[Rack]

We really have to establish what grinding is. My definition is doing something for the in-game reward rather than the intrinsic reward. That pretty much precludes it ever being a good thing. Practising in Demons' Souls isn't grinding.

 

[beastro]

No better grinding that classic EQ for the sense of accomplishment you got from it.

 

[FalloutJack]

I don't mind most grinds, so long as I break it up with other things.

I'm having fun with Guild Wars 2 lately.

 

[Signa]

For me, grinding is great, as long as it doesn't get stale. That's why anyone hates grinds, because it does get stale very quickly.

I like to use Castlevania as an example of why grinding can be OK with me. The Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow versions featured the soul capturing systems, which lead to a lot of grinding. The reason why I was ok with it was because there was a certain challenge finding the best grinding area, and the best soul/attack in your arsenal to do the job as quickly as possible. The challenge wasn't the grind, but figuring out the procedure for it. Also, most souls could be captured within 10 minutes so the grind on those enemies wouldn't get too stale.

Alternately, Ragnarok Online is a perfect example of why grinding is bad. The whole game is centered around getting more XP, so finding an area to get that XP and get nothing else is the biggest part of the game. Sure, you could take breaks from grinding to do exploring, but that's mostly for the sake of finding more grind. At least in Castlevania, the allure of what power the next soul might bestow was reward enough.

 

[DracoSuave]

No better grinding that classic EQ for the sense of accomplishment you got from it.

God that was the worst.

'Congrats you gained a level and now all your spells are just a little more obsolete! Only four more levels of grinding to go and you might have spells worth using again!'

 

[Fractral]

I love grinding in games like Kingdom Hearts and Shin Megami Tensei, I love seeing your work pay off!

I only play Pokemon with traded pokemon because grinding in those games sucks because the combat is so damn slow.

I may play Black again soon, does the extra experience from traded pokemon still work?

Yup and I think they may have boosted the extra exp even further this time, my traded ones usually get about 2000-5000 exp I shit you not.


Though they are from Events so that may be why.

I am restarting Black and I will use my sisters White (she doesn't play it anymore) to trade Samurott, Emboar, Serperior, Galvantula, Golurk and Excadrill! *bad-ass team*

I hope to do this by the time Black and White 2 come out.

You'd be better off just trading the lower-levelled versions if you're just starting, because if you trade them at a high level they won't listen to you.

Plus if you trade them at a low level it'll be like you have just caught them, albeit with a lot more XP

One of the cool new features of Gen V is that now you don't have to trade a shitty Pokemon for a good one, you can just give one without needing anything in return.

Yeah, I know the (Exca)drill (lol, bad puns) I'l probably trade a Tepig, Snivy, Oshowatt, Joltik and the Golurk and Excadrill pre-evolutions (forget their names)

Looking forward to it, levels fly for traded Pokemon and that nothing in return feature is a godsend.

There's also the lucky egg, which was in the previous versions, but was very rare. In bw its now mandatory to get it to proceed the story. It gives a 1.5* exp mutliplier, which stacks with traded multipliers. I've had upwards of 14000 experience from a single pokemon before with both of those, although it was a level 65 audino.
OT: I enjoy the grinding in persona 3 up to a point. Generally when I've beaten all the avaliable tartarus bosses I stop grinding. I also liked grinding in FF13, though that may be because I really enjoyed the battle systems in both those games.

 

[josemlopes]

The article just uses "grind" as a synonym for progression, which is a mistake. There's nothing wrong with progression; it's the fundamental mechanic of RPGs. If you're enjoying the content you play through to progress, then it's not a grind.

But I think it's generally agreed that Dark Souls definitely has grinding. You need to do it to proceed in the game, to progress.

Actually no, you can beat the game right out the door. Granted it takes a lot of skill and patience, but it is possible. The only time you need to grind in Dark Souls is to compensate for a lack of skill in the game.

A new player with no experience can beat it right out of the door? I'd like to see that. It would have been impossible for me. If I need to spend hours honing my skills without getting anywhere within the game, that's grinding.

A brand new player, no of course not. Like I said, it takes considerable skill and patience if your goal is to beat the game staying level 1 (or whatever your class starts at). I don't know anyone who would choose to walk into a game blind and do that, however it is possible. That is just to illustrate if you can do it with the base stats with enough skill, it is possible at any level.

Personally, I progressed through the game just fine, and at no point was it required that I grind souls to gain levels/abilities. The option to do so is there if you feel you want to, but it is not needed. It becomes a choice you get to make, grind up levels so that things are easier, or learn how the fights and areas function so that you can beat it as you are.

And how many times did you die because you didn't have the requisite skill? How many times did you have to repeat a section because you weren't good enough? The game's called "Prepare to Die". It's part of the game to "prepare" by repeating things again and again to get better - whether by levelling or by improving your skill with the controller, and to learn by dying what works and what doesn't. I call that grinding.

My brother grinded in the game but I didnt, I never went to a specific area to kill the same guys over and over again just of the points. He did it and yet he still dies at the asylum demon lol. I just used the points that I earned from progressing through the areas and the bosses which are more then enough to stay prepared for the battles. And no one just dies in a boss fight because they werent in the right level, it does make it easier but not by that much, you still have to be good with it. I took 4 hours to reach Solaire on my first playthrough, on my second I took 20 minutes (and I had an inferior level since it was less time killing and earning points).

It would be grinding if the purpose was just to level up or practice, but no, that is the real thing, every try was to get to the bonfire, not just to learn the enemy.

 

[Sidonis]

Question:
When is grinding good?

Answer:
When its on a girl.