When should an actors ethnicity be important when adapting a fictional character?

[mecegirl]

I really don't get why people keep bringing up Heimdall. This isn't a cinematic retelling of the Volsunga saga and the actor for Sigurd was a Black man. This is Marvel's Thor. The Thor comics are very far removed from actual Norse Myth. They hang out with aliens and shit like Beta Ray Bill for instance. It's more space opera-y sci fi with a fantastic bent, than a fantasy story based on myths. If Marvel wanted accuracy then Thor would be a ginger, Heimdall would have gold teeth, and Sif would be wearing a blonde wig cuz Loki shaved her head(she also wouldn't be on the battlefield and Thor would be cheating on her, his wife, by getting involved with Jane). Instead we got super powered aliens that visited earth way back when thus inspiring Norse myths.

 

[Something Amyss]

Kirk is only praised so much for being the first. His portrayal in the movies create a much more moving chracter, but he is still out shined as a chracter by his supporting cast. I don't see how anyone can watch the original and still believe that he is the best without being blinded by nostalgia. Out of all the captains Picard was the best. And Sisko and Janeway are tied in my mind.

I was mostly having fun with this. Though I find Picard to be awful and Janeway just confusing (mostly because of the erratic writing of Voyager, something even Mulgrew agrees with).

Sisko? I like him best when I picture him as Homer Simpson in his Guy Incognito voice. If only Sisko had said "D'oh!" a few times.

I prefer Kirk because he would later team up with Daniel Jackson and Odo to rule the Alpha Quadrant through lawsuits.

As for the Shazam thing. One of Shazam's main villains, Black Adam, is often depicted as an Egyptian along with his Wife Isis. Which considering their backstories is quite appropriate. But Captain Marvel, or Shazam as we are supposed to call him now, also gains the wisdom of Solomon, the strength of Hercules, the stamina of Atlas, the power of Zeus, the courage of Achilles, and the speed of Mercury. So a random mix of Greek/Roman deities plus an Israeli king. So it wouldn't hurt if he actually had a skin tone that reflected that.

Don't be ridiculoous. Greeks are white, and so are Romans. Just look at the Santa Claus debate. Santa is white. He just is!

But seriously, I agree with these points and raised them a couple of times already to people. It's interesting, though unsurprising, that the bad guys can be brown but not the heroes.

To the snarkier bit about Santa being white, it's also sort of interesting just how white-washed culture is. We've had white people in popular culture playing people of colour for so long, from Egyptians to the King of Siam to Othello, and it's only recently that it's been considered at issue at all (except for something as deliberate as blackface).

But now we've got to the point where it's not only a problem for some that white characters are getting recast as black (or whatever), but also that someone who probably should be brown in the first place is being "recast."

I wonder what the overlap is between the people complaining about the possibility of Dwayne Johnson being SHAZAM! and the people who complained about Idris Elba being a Norse God.

 

[faefrost]

Hi there all, im sorry if this has been a Topic before on the forums,( which it undoubtably has), but with the recent rumours going about that Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson is being considered for the role of Cpt.Marvel/ Shazam in an upcoming Movie ive seen in a few places people questioning this choice because Johnson is not Caucasian and Shazam has typically been portrayed as being so.

This confuses me beyond belief, because while Billy Batson/ Shazam has always been drawn as Caucasian, the characters ethnicity is not an integral part of his backstory.

The Character of Billy Batson, while orignally portrayed as homeless in the 1940's , is a typical boy living in modern day America; A multi ethnic society. Billy Batson is not widely known to acknowledge any privalges or contend with any disadvantages due to his ethnicity as a part of his day to day life.

Thus there is no reason why the casting for these two characters shouldnt be colourblind.



This is where i get to the crux of the issue, sorry for waffling ive never put up a discussion on a forum like this before, and it is not a simple topic.

(This is of course unless the director is setting the story as it was originally shown, if its set in an alternate universe or culture/time then there are no rules).

The way i see it, an actor should only 'have to be' a certain ethnicity if:

A- The characters ethnicity is central to the drama of the story, or was in the past.
For example: Virgil Tibbs, Atticus Finch & Tom Robinson, The Red Skull.


B- The character is a national from a REAL country or part of a country which would not be considered particulalrly multiethnic or multicultural at the time in which it is set, to the point that it would break suspension of disbelief if said character was of an ethnicity other than those of said country.

For example: Light Yagami from Death Note, Ororo Monroe/Storm, Imhotep from the Mummy.

C-The Plot takes place in a fictional Universe, but racial predjudice (not cultural) is still important to the drama, and ethnic groups are a direct analogue to those in the real world.

On the other hand, I beleive cases where an actors ethnicity is not important at all are:

A- When the character is an Alien, from another world/ dimension/ alternate universe, or has been stated to be so.
For example: Superman, Goku from Dragonball, Heimdal in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

B- When the original plot is set on earth, but the adaptation has changed the setting to another culture or time, this has been done many times with Shakespeare characters.

C-When the major characters are human but the plot takes place in an alternate world where earth as we know it does not exist. Wether the cultures shown are inspired by real world cultures or not and racial predjudice (not cultural) between humans is not addressed.
For example: The cast of Star Wars, the cast of Naruto, the cast of Avatar the Last Airbender.

D-When the producers have specifically stated that their adaptation of the story will ommit any references to racial predjudice as an issue, and informed the audience of colourblind casting in order to prepare to let them prepare their suspension of disbelief.

For example: the BBC's adaptions of Arthurian Legend 'Merlin', and its Robin Hood Adaptation.

What are peoples thoughts? i know that many people will disagree with me on some examples, andthere may be other cases where an actors ethnicity probably should or should not be considered that i hanvt thought.

There are also examples which may be too complex an issue, for example the cast of Star Trek.

Captain Kirk is American is he not? and while his orignal actor was Caucasian, being Caucasian isnt central to his character as Star Trek is set in a world without racial predjudice between humans, so who says he has to be played by someone Caucasian?

But then Sulu is Japanese, is Japan as multiethnic as America in the future of Star Trek? John Cho isnt Japanese or of Japanese decseant but George Takei said that Sulu represented all of Asia on the Enterprise. But then does Sulu even have to be portrayed by someone Asian?

Pretend Billy got a tan I guess *shrug*. Rock's got the 'chin' or 'jawline' if that's more precise. I presume this visual aspect is essential to the overall look. Hence we got Batfleck in attempt to 'Frank Miller' ol' Batsy's look onscreen.

If only DC's cinematic universe was centered around the Bat instead of SupeDupe. Love Clark's endearing persona, but frankly Bruce is the glue. The guy researched a full doc on how to eliminate every last one of the JL in a worse case scenario, and Darkseid was more worried about HIM than anyone else.

If Tony charged up the MCU, lesson is you gotta focus on the 'entrepeneurial' tactical heroes to draw everyone together for crossover stories. Its just builds better ground that way.

I am more confused about why they would ever consider the Rock for the role of Shazam (old Captain Marvel) when honestly he is the living breathing embodiment of Shazam's nemesis brought to life. Honestly Rock would not be bad as Shazam. You get the hair right, plus he has that sort general historical ethnic feel about him that works wonderfully for a historical fantasy character. But he is shear perfection for Black Adam. No makeup needed. No special effects. Not even a stretch of acting range. Give the man some black spandex with a lightning bolt and we roll film. And Black Adam is the much more interesting character to play. He is far far more nuanced than "Captain Whitebread" (literally what some villains called him in the comics). Black Adam has the pro's and con's of somebody like Vladamir Putin. A dark terrifying force that is a hero to some and a mass murdering villain to others.

And honestly if you want to do them right than Shazam should have a bit of a European Mediteranean look to him. (His magic word mainly comes from Greek and Roman figures). Whereas Black Adam should reflect a Northern African Mediteranean look (his word and magic coming from Egypt and Northern Africa, particularly the fictional land of Khandahar which is adjacent to Libya in the DCU). So what exactly would "race swapping" gain either of those characters that seem to have a fairly specific yet diverse ethnicity going on with them?

 

[Amir Kondori]

I only care when characters that are supposed to be "of color" are played by white people. Otherwise unless we are talking about a character where race is integral to the identity of that character, i.e. Edward Norton's character in American History X, then I don't mind diverse casting. It worked well for Heimdal in Thor.

 

[mecegirl]

This is off topic... But I just saw this on tumblr and its sorta related becase of the Rock and Captain Marvel other wise known as Shazam.

And that's why DC had to change the name. XD

 

[waj9876]

It should only be an issue because of the reason it's being changed. Nothing else.

Like, if an actor of a different ethnicity is just better suited for the role of a character, then yeah, that's fine.

If an actor of a different ethnicity is chosen just to make the company look good, as in just to fulfill some quota, then no, that's bad.