Where are all the female antagonists?
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Well in the Last of Us...
[spoiler/]Marlene was an antagonist. Ok, she wasn't a "villain", you didn't had any gameplay against her, you only battled her male-only Firefly troops and she only comes back at the end of the game.
However, she did lost in the end. She wasn't spared even if she was thinking "I don't like the idea of killing Ellie".
Note* Could be a discussion there of what constitutes a video game antagonist. [/spoiler]
[spoiler/]Marlene was an antagonist. Ok, she wasn't a "villain", you didn't had any gameplay against her, you only battled her male-only Firefly troops and she only comes back at the end of the game.
However, she did lost in the end. She wasn't spared even if she was thinking "I don't like the idea of killing Ellie".
Note* Could be a discussion there of what constitutes a video game antagonist. [/spoiler]
Excepting, of course, the fact we already knew she was a horrible monster from the train sequence and the fact she's a commandant of a nazi labour camp. And a lot of the ingame lore snippets paint her as such to.Vault101 said:
Underated game, need to finish it.
Edit: The Boss is a terrible example, you are made to feel remorseful for killing her because she amounts to a foster mother for Snake, it's nothing to do with her being female be sad for killing her, there's a lot more to it than just that.
The Main reason Poison from Final Fight grew a dick and ommited completely later in the NA port.Batou667 said:
Musei became and Ally though in ToX2 and Chidori is the tragic enemy that was actually in love with one of the main characters. Not really good examples.-Ezio- said:
Nicole Horne is the villain from Max Payne, and Max(with your aid) sends a radio tower crashing down onto her helicopter.Batou667 said:
On topic, I know Dragon Age 2 had Knight Commander Meredith, KotOR2 had Kriea, DA:O had the Archdemon(ymmv due to high dragons being only female, DA:A had the Mother, and Mass Effect 3:Citadel had possibly 2 female villians(not saying why for reasons of spoilers).
Perhaps it's tough to call them "antagonists" at times, but about half of the assassins in No More Heroes are female. Shinobu, Holly Summer, Speed Buster, Bad Girl, and -insert spoiler of final boss here-. Travis Touchdown has an issue with killing women, though all but Shinobu (who is also a kid) end up dying. Then there is another somewhat antagonist that isn't an assassin. But ya, most of them are pretty fun. Dayum there, Bad Girl. Wtf?
Spoiler tags and previews aren't working for me, so I'm trying to dance around things best I can.
Spoiler tags and previews aren't working for me, so I'm trying to dance around things best I can.
Well, Meredith in Dragon Age 2 was a good female villain/antagonist in the sense that she wasn't sexualised, (you get no boob armour), she is a very physical fighter (I think it was a very concious choice to make the leader of the less physical mages a man and the templar knight a woman) and an older woman too.
All things we don't see as much as I'd like.
Her writing had issues, but none of those had anything to do with her gender.
Since those faceless grunts are generally blown away by male protagonists.
It relates back to the whole idea of men being the norm for most things.
Make a character (a standard enemy or a protagonist) a man, and it's business as usual.
Make them a woman, and it's suddenly a 'message'.
The only way we can get away from this idea is to have more even splits in all roles; more female protagonists and more female background characters and enemies.
All things we don't see as much as I'd like.
Her writing had issues, but none of those had anything to do with her gender.
It's not like those men are seen as expendable for their masculinity either.Batou667 said:
Since those faceless grunts are generally blown away by male protagonists.
It relates back to the whole idea of men being the norm for most things.
Make a character (a standard enemy or a protagonist) a man, and it's business as usual.
Make them a woman, and it's suddenly a 'message'.
The only way we can get away from this idea is to have more even splits in all roles; more female protagonists and more female background characters and enemies.
My point still stands, they're not good examples of a female antagonists.-Ezio- said:
As an Antagonist Muzet always and ALWAYS needs orders to act, and she's heavily dependent to people. To makes thing worse all of the people she's dependent on are all males. Jude, Maxwell and then Gaius.
In Chidori's case, Most of the time she's manipulated by Takaya and Jin, and in FES she turns out to be just a normal person when she lost her Persona.
Tales of Symphonia had Lady Pronyma as the second-in-command of the main villain. She's portrayed as clever, merciless, and fiercely loyal towards her boss, as she truly supports his utopian vision for the world(s). She doesn't get much screentime, but she's one of several interesting villains in the game.
Blackwell series: The Countess and
Gabriel Knight: Tetelo.
Saints Row 2: Jessica(Not a gang leader but she does something pretty horrible despite that).
Saints Row 3: Viola and Kiki, at least at the beginning of the game.
Back to the Future(Telltale game): Edna Strickland.
Final Fantasy 3: The cloud of darkness(final boss) is shown as being female, so it might count.
Portal/Portal 2: What, no GLaDOS yet?
Thief:
Thief 3: The Hag.
Sanitarium: Mother.
Valkyria Chronicles: Selvaria.
Madeline
Gabriel Knight: Tetelo.
Saints Row 2: Jessica(Not a gang leader but she does something pretty horrible despite that).
Saints Row 3: Viola and Kiki, at least at the beginning of the game.
Back to the Future(Telltale game): Edna Strickland.
Final Fantasy 3: The cloud of darkness(final boss) is shown as being female, so it might count.
Portal/Portal 2: What, no GLaDOS yet?
Thief:
Victoria
Thief 3: The Hag.
Sanitarium: Mother.
Valkyria Chronicles: Selvaria.
Uh... you sure there aren't plenty of female antagonists? Like... I just got finished killing The Sheriff in Borderlands 2. And that same franchise has Commandant Steele.
And in the past few weeks I've faced down Bloody Mary, Meredith Stannard, The Mother, Flemeth, that chick from DX:HR who's name escapes me...
And in the past few weeks I've faced down Bloody Mary, Meredith Stannard, The Mother, Flemeth, that chick from DX:HR who's name escapes me...
How could you all forget the Dark Queen from Battletoads? She's not a love interest, and you just punch her in the face until she dies (or runs away, I can't remember). She's pretty damn sexy though.
There's waaay more female antagonists than protagonists, but yes most of them are cliche. As are most male antagonists. Video game writing!
There's waaay more female antagonists than protagonists, but yes most of them are cliche. As are most male antagonists. Video game writing!
I mentioned the sex appeal part, didn't I? And personally, I haven't beaten Battletoads, which means that the only exposure I've had to her was...that photo. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing she's not exactly a well-rounded character in her own right.NoeL said:How could you all forget the Dark Queen from Battletoads? She's not a love interest, and you just punch her in the face until she dies (or runs away, I can't remember). She's pretty damn sexy though.
There's waaay more female antagonists than protagonists, but yes most of them are cliche. As are most male antagonists. Video game writing!