Where do you see the Tomb Raider franchise going?

[Darth Rosenberg]

We all know the original Lara Croft, as you say she was and is an icon, i just don't see the new one as a deserving replacement.

Does she need to be precisely that (just a replacement)? Do you see value in exploring what an icon is? Generally, you do that by relativism; one thing defines and shapes the other, and you can examine what that means to the character by way of comparison.

To me, Lara was barely ever a character - she was just another Bond (who I never liked), defined by superficial traits and being little more than a cipher for action. So the reboot humanised her, and I loved that. Classic Lara really didn't have a place in the current gaming climate (she absolutely did when it first came out), so she needed to change. And change she did.

...which is - just like Bond - something she's always done. Hell, look at the recent Legend trilogy from TR:L to Underworld; I enjoyed that trilogy, but it represented a colossal identity crisis. Compare the gameplay from Legend to Underworld, along with the art design, script, and so on.

What about the original to Angel Of Darkness as a 'character'? Are all these versions the "actual" Lara? If so, why? Because she's ballsy and carries two pistols? If that's all that defines her, then that's surely a rather pitiful reflection on what she was and began as (this isn't a criticism of you for liking an icon, btw, it's a criticism of the original incarnation and a bygone era).

I played through the reboot about five times, and I never got the impression she was weak, insecure, or downtrodden. There are lots of 'I can do this!' lines, sure, but it is a new origin of the character's development, and essentially NLP'ing yourself to survive an extreme situation is something people actually do - they just don't have an audience watching, and don't have a mulligan when they fall off a cliff.

At one point Lara's pretty much rushing a group of cultists with a newly acquired assault rifle with a grenade launcher, shouting them down amidst explosions... That doesn't seem very passive or snivelly, it seems assertive, aggressive, and just a bit crazy (which is perfect for a character who historically keeps placing themselves in life threatening and/or isolated situations).

I've not got very far in Rise yet, as another game's distracted me. But it seems they're going for a rather PTSD version of Lara, and that's - to me - a superb way to reframe an icon. Just as Casino Royale and Qauntum Of Solace did for Bond (ditto Nolan/Bale with the cinematic Batman).

Granted, on the gameplay front I do want more of the original TR; less combat and more emphasis on environmental exploration and lonesome puzzling. Of the hour or so of Rise I played so far, they seem to have reintroduced more of that, which bodes well.

2. A desire to explore ancient ruins. (You say she lost her lust for advanture, but remember, the whole reason they were out there was Lara was trying to discover some lost ruins or whatever. You don't fund and lead an expedition like that without a "lust for adventure"

That's a good point, and nu-TR even ends - er, kinda but not really a spoiler? - with her resolving to seek out various mysteries around the world. Which couldn't be more in keeping with classic Lara.

(I agree with almost every other word of your post, as well, re humanising what was once a rather bland creation who suited their era just fine, yet needed to evolve)

 

[Frankster]

I don't know if this is where the franchise will be heading, or if it would even be popular, but I'd like to see a return to the style of the first tomb raiders where action was a dramatic pause from the heavy platforming and exploring fantastical locations. I also felt that because gunfights were fewer, they were more tense, I remembered being super stressed when meeting random bears and what not whereas I play the modern Tomb Raiders with more of an action "kill them all!!! raaaargh!" mentality. I can dig the Action Hero stuff, I enjoyed it well enough, but it wasn't what made me interested in the series to begin with.

Even now, the original main menu theme of TR1 still gives me the chills and seem to promise discovery and exploration over action and gunning down hordes of people. Newer Tomb Raiders just ain't about that no more.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Visuals and the atmosphere are really good but Lara's constant whining just ruins it.

Yeah. I remember the whole ludonarattive dissonance argument when the first one came out in 2013 but I didn't care much about it. I didn't care because she had to do a lot of bad stuff to survive and the gameplay was fun. So the dissonance between gameplay and story wasn't that jarring.

However, this is a sequel. She's doing these things because she wants to. I've only seen gameplay videos but the mass murder part is worse than ever. Her character is the same in cutscenes, yet she's now sneaking up to people to slit their throats.

The problem with new Tomb Raider is that it wants to appeal to everybody. Developers wanted to make a good action adventure game with tight combat mechanics, and in that regard they seem to have succeeded. But they also wanted to make a more realistic character who isn't just a cartoony one-dimensional adventurer like the old Lara. But because of the gameplay they've failed miserably. The writing is just so atrocious and it doesn't fit what's going on in the game at all. Lara should have been a hardened adventurer by now, not the same whiny character from the first game who acts like she doesn't have a choice but to be there and do these things.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

Can we count a DLC as going somewhere?

Spoiler

Judging by this video, nowhere good. Everything she says strikes me as being very stupid and "getting out of here" is still the best expression of the new Lara's adventurous nature we've been told about in cutscenes.
Visuals and the atmosphere are really good but Lara's constant whining just ruins it.

(Also Baba Yaga is not supposed to be a combatant)

Holy shit, that was awful. After the first 2 minutes of her walking down a linear path I had to start skipping forward. Was her voice actor always that bad?

 

[Zhukov]

Sideways, mostly.

I imagine they'll just keep putting out middling action-adventure-shooter games with uninspired writing and a kinda inconsistent protagonist who is seemingly supposed to be amazing purely because she shares a name and basic premise with a character from some old games that people played when they were kids.

Which is hardly the worst thing ever, at least in my eyes. I basically enjoy the gameplay of the New Raider games and I don't expect anything from the story. To me they're like the video game equivalent of the Marvel movies. Comfortably entertaining enough for me to show up, but not something I'm ever going to really love.

That's assuming they make enough money anyway. If not it'll get put to sleep for a few years at least before being rebooted again, either as a boring return-to-our-roots platformer or as a modernisation out to imitate whatever's trendy at the time.

Maybe at some point they'll get a new writer and surprise me. That'd be a nice, well, surprise.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

What I hope for:
-Less shooting things
-Less 'story'. I'm Lara and couldn't care about her past. She's an open vessel for us to explore tombs, not a fascinating enigma whose actions reveal her hidden motivations.
-Less QTEs and cinematics
-The return of some actual puzzles to solve
-MORE TOMB RAIDING

What we'll get:
-More shooting. Much more.
-More 'story', with exhaustic explanations of Lara's adolescent life including why she has a scar on her upper left thigh and why she always packs two toothbrushes when going camping.
-More QTEs and cinematics, with achievements for each cutscene that you stay awake for.
-Greater dumbing down until you're basically walking in a straight line shooting stuff down the whole game.
-Tombs will be erased from the game entirely, with a complex story behind this phenomenon with the eventual outcome being Lara has to shoot a bunch of things to bring them back.

 

[Ishigami]

What we'll get:
-More shooting. Much more.
-More 'story', with exhaustic explanations of Lara's adolescent life including why she has a scar on her upper left thigh and why she always packs two toothbrushes when going camping.
-More QTEs and cinematics, with achievements for each cutscene that you stay awake for.
-Greater dumbing down until you're basically walking in a straight line shooting stuff down the whole game.
-Tombs will be erased from the game entirely, with a complex story behind this phenomenon with the eventual outcome being Lara has to shoot a bunch of things to bring them back.

Translation: "I have not played RoTR and judge the direction of the new series solely based on reviews by some internet trolls."

I'm not a big fan of overarching stories. Video games simply have a horrible track record when it comes to them.
If you want some recent examples of this have a look at Assassins Creed or Mass Effect.
In case of AC the story went nowhere, disappointed for all the foreshadowing it build up and was ultimately rebooted to give new players easier access.
And for Mass Effect it was simply disappointing in its conclusion.
But this seems the setup for the next Tomb Raiders: On one hand you will get the in the game contained story of the artifact on the other hand the overarching story of Lara fighting Trinity over several instalments.
Like I said I'm not too happy about that because I think the overarching story will go nowhere or disappoint so better keep it straight and simple like Uncharted or Indiana Jones.

One should also not underestimate the influence of the business side of things.
SE already complained about TR2013's lack of success despite being the most successfully TR yet.
And they botched the release of RoTR hard and pissed away fan goodwill by making it timed exclusive for the less successful console and after that release it on the platform with the weakest sales promise (PC usually tends to only matter for roughly 10% of the sales of a multiplatform game).
So depending on how much Microsoft paid we are looking at a game that may have costs SE a fortune to make and has nothing to show for it.

What I hope is that they might rethink is the survival part.
There is only so much leeway you have with this setup. We already had Lara getting lost/isolated twice now having to make due with makeshift weapons etc. a third time would be borderline silly.
I think they should think of something new here.
Streamline it like Uncharted (aka getting rid of skills, crafting and upgrading) or changing the system e.g. that you get upgrade points instead of XP in order to unlock new tools and weapons.
Whatever just not redoing the same thing over again.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah pretty much. It would at least make the exploring and tomb raiding be part of the actual game. Maybe ROTR does this better, since she's actively going out to explore these ruins, not washing ashore on one of them by accident, and being forced to deal with a survival issue instead of her archeological expedition.

Yeah couldn't tell you, since I don't have an Xbone, but I really hope they did step it up. It fit the plot but not necessarily the premise. And maybe they should have thought about the premise a little more.

I remember almost nothing of that game, except the terrible writing, and sacrificial lambness of the supporting cast. The only part I enjoyed out of that whole game, well 2 parts, was when that old, crochety guy from the ship, got tired of dealing with the hostage situation across that gap, and just bumrushed the thug over the edge. He was like "Fuck this noise, I'm going out how I chooose to, and I'm taking this asshole with me! He's not using me as a bargaining chip!" *Jumps off cliff like a boss*

The other being where the other female character, ( I forget her name, the black woman with the curly hair who stayed on the shore the whole time), gave Lara some lip, commenting "People sure do have a tendency to die around you." I remember shouting at the screen. "Thank you! Finally someone else fucking noticed this terrible writing!!"

I thought there were some pretty damn good moments in Tomb Raider. The problem is, they were in Tomb Raider.

Like, and I'll avoid actual spoilers here, but I thought there were some really great moments in Star Trek Into Darkness. Particularly a couple that paralleled a better movie in the series. And when I saw those moments, I was like "why did they have to be in this movie?"

In another game, such moments could have shone through. Like, there are a handful of Lara triumphs I was really into during the game, but they were brief moments, and then it was all:

Spoiler: kinda like this

The horror movie deal didn't really play with me. Though I hadn't played a TR game in a while, and wasn't sure if maybe the franchise had gone that route anyway.

 

[votemarvel]

I think at some point they are going to have to decide whether Lara Croft is the original or the reboot.

Original Lara still exists in her isometric shooter series and a comics mini-series featuring her has just finished.

I've posted before that I think the reboot game would have worked better with original Lara, as it is a situation she would have thrived in

At the moment both Lara's co-exist and for the franchise to survive, I really don't think that can remain the case.