Where is the line drawn nowadays?

[xPrometheusx]

I was thinking about this earlier: 5 years ago, there were certain things that, generally, were NOT accepted into the mainstream. 10 years ago, Halo was controversial for the FPS factor. 5 years ago (actually, more like 7 now... christ) Gears of War was controversial for the giant amount of gore. Now you can see games like Dead Rising and not bat an eye. The FPS has become a standard, and our culture is... pretty accepting of it. Meanwhile, Dead Space has you blasting away schoolhouses of undead children and Modern Warfare's latest "controversial" scene was, a child dying. Boo hoo.

But I was thinking that the one line that had always been drawn was sex. In that most games, like Mass Effect, at least have the courtesy to fade to black and rely on the internet for filling-in, in which case I was disproven by Far Cry 3, where you are literally fucking Citra in first person. TWICE. And she's topless, too. Not that I had a problem with that, but short of the squelchy jello-in-shoe (don't ask) noises and the P entering the V, there wasn't exactly many more barriers to be broken aside from maybe a quick-time event to grope, which, granted, would've been absolutely fucking hilarious (no pun intended).

So... I'm confused. Where is the line drawn at this point? Does one even still exist for what can be put into a game? What do people besides myself think?

Please note that I'm not particularly IRKED by changing standards. Hell, I own a copy of Dead Rising 2. I just find it strange that any sense of control over what things are put into things has all but disappeared.

 

[Strelok]

Halo controversial? Maybe for being generic and bland, but I don't think there is a controversy over that, at least for those outside of the XBox world. I am never sure if those with the X for XBox badge are aware that there were FPS games before Halo, sometimes it seems that the answer to that question is no. You know actually controversial games like Doom, filled with gore and Satanic imagery came out long before Halo.

Also what is the FPS factor?

P.S. Before Far Cry 3, there was F.E.A.R. 2, where the main character is raped by a naked undead/ghost in first person.

 

[Verzin]

What line?

the idea of a 'line' of visuals, mechanics, or taboos is...well...silly. It's pretty much just pornography (sex without any other features) and child abuse in modern AAA games. but those lines get crossed anyway in non-AAA games, so...whatever.

It's pretty much just a free for all. stupid imo. I think most mature themes in video games, especially violence and gore, is so cartoonishly overdone a lot of the time. Fun sometimes, but it feels immature. especially sex in video games. I've never seen sex in video games done in a way that didn't feel.. awkward or immature.

 

[dyre]

There's not really a "line," just like there isn't a "line" for other entertainment/information mediums, although certain subjects will outrage certain segments of the population. Handle a subject with a decent level of maturity and you can get away with anything. Just look at The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.

What line?

the idea of a 'line' of visuals, mechanics, or taboos is...well...silly. It's pretty much just pornography (sex without any other features) and child abuse in modern AAA games. but those lines get crossed anyway in non-AAA games, so...whatever.

It's pretty much just a free for all. stupid imo. I think most mature themes in video games, especially violence and gore, is so cartoonishly overdone a lot of the time. Fun sometimes, but it feels immature. especially sex in video games. I've never seen sex in video games done in a way that didn't feel.. awkward or immature.

Witcher 2 did sex pretty well, I think. It just treated it like...sex. Intimate but not the most special thing ever (you know, unlike in Bioware where they pretty much treat sex as the final "reward" for all your hard work romancing the NPCs, lol) Probably was easier because the protagonist and his love interest were already in a long-standing relationship of sorts.

 

[Rednog]

So...why did you make 2 threads that are essentially the same thing?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.406125-So-what-ISNT-allowed-in-video-games-now?page=1
You literally just copy and pasted your previous OP and added a few lines.
I suggest you ask a mod to close one.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Art should have no lines.

If we keep "drawing lines" then we hold the medium back as an art form.

One of the best things to happen to Television were networks like HBO, Showtime, and Stars. By taking off all restrictions, those networks have produced some of the best Television of the past several years. Case in point: Game of Thrones.

 

[Lurklen]

I'd say there are still plenty of lines to cross, not that they all need to be crossed but they exist. To name a few:

-Player actively raping someone. I've never played a mainstream game where I was supposed to rape a man woman or child.
-Player owning slaves in a meaningful way, as in not in a semi-comic fashion(Overlord) or a removed passionless fashion (Rome Total War) but being real slave owners and not being guilty.
- Murdering living children, this has been done in sneaky ways(zombies in DeadSpace) and through mods in Skyrim, but never designed purposely to kill real children just for fun.
- Realistic use of drugs, they have been power ups or power downs at best, and the version of addiction we've seen is laughable.
- Player being raped, unless it's part of a back story it hasn't happened to my knowledge.
- Player being gay in a meaningful fashion, it happens but it's either shallow(Fable series) or part of a wheel of sexualities(most bioware games) but I haven't heard of a really out and out gay protagonist, who wasn't a woman and even they've all been bi.
-Player experiencing a real mental disorder, this one is tough because you could argue all protagonists are insane, but it's always been in a cartoonish fashion really. It's not like we've ever played someone with Down?s syndrome.
- Real and purposeful misogyny, honestly this happens so often by accident that I shudder to think what it would be like if we played something designed for it. It would be a wife beating simulator at worst and a really dark look at gender dynamics across a game world at best.

That's all I can think of at the moment, though there are many, many more and most of them have to do with the negative aspects of the world?s cultures at the moment. Some are just places no one has dared to go even if they are positive, others are just so nasty the mainstream isn?t willing to accept them. Not that I'm saying these lines should be crossed either but they still exist. Also this only holds for mainstream games, there are plenty of small niche games that have crossed all or most of these boundaries in some fashion. If anyone notices a mainstream game that has the things I mentioned I'd be curious to know which ones because I've never heard of them.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Not that I had a problem with that, but short of the squelchy jello-in-shoe (don't ask) noises

Ha!

and the P entering the V

Double ha!

Christ, I'm immature...

So... I'm confused. Where is the line drawn at this point? Does one even still exist for what can be put into a game? What do people besides myself think?

Why does there have to be a line? Books don't have a line. Movies don't have a line. A ratings system, sure, but as a culture we have apparently accepted that art can push the boundaries of what we're comfortable with.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Halo controversial? Maybe for being generic and bland, but I don't think there is a controversy over that, at least for those outside of the XBox world. I am never sure if those with the X for XBox badge are aware that there were FPS games before Halo, sometimes it seems that the answer to that question is no. You know actually controversial games like Doom, filled with gore and Satanic imagery came out long before Halo.

Someone's bitter today.

Owning one particular console indicates absolutely nothing about a personality, what they have or haven't played, or anything about them. Just putting that out there.

 

[Lurklen]

Art should have no lines.

If we keep "drawing lines" then we hold the medium back as an art form.

One of the best things to happen to Television were networks like HBO, Showtime, and Stars. By taking off all restrictions, those networks have produced some of the best Television of the past several years. Case in point: Game of Thrones.

But they haven't, there are still many, many restrictions to what stories can be told and how. Books are probably the freest but TV (even HBO) and film are still heavily monitered. MovieBob had a neat article in the big picture about films that go over the line so to speak and they were almost all from outside North America and for the most part I wouldn't want to watch them, they be messed up. But I think games are getting there especially on the indie front, and if people do it right there could be some really important stuff being done in this art form.

 

[The Wonder of the net]

The line for all intensive purposes is "in the sand." That joke is not only just a joke about it ever disappearing but it is in fact drawn further and further. I think the most like oh my god issue is still sex, japanese horror violence, and super graphical issues. Personally the line should be made out of jello in my opinion. Like you can eat it at your own risk. We all know the world is a dark place and we accept that. Video games is just going through the same restraints as movies and books. Pretty soon we till have a satire on slavery then horrid fanfic of what ever the new twilite will be and have some BDSM overtones. We will all live to see it because how fast word travels, life moves, and old people die.

That said I am going to make my self a pb&j because I think I will sit and wait for the day we get a game like shawshank redemption or the green mile.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

But they haven't, there are still many, many restrictions to what stories can be told and how. Books are probably the freest but TV (even HBO) and film are still heavily monitered. MovieBob had a neat article in the big picture about films that go over the line so to speak and they were almost all from outside North America and for the most part I wouldn't want to watch them, they be messed up. But I think games are getting there especially on the indie front, and if people do it right there could be some really important stuff being done in this art form.

Yes, I know, but there are far fewer restrictions on HBO etc than normal broadcast TV, and look how much better their shows are.

And yes, of course novels are the least restricted (although they still have some, just far fewer). However, novels have been that way for a long time. I was trying to show contrast - network TV vs HBO is a huge contrast. I can't think of another form of media that shows as much contrast between different viewing restrictions within itself than TV. Hence my use of it as an example.

Edit: In case it wasn't obvious, video games are the other media with a great internal contrast - hence why I used the TV comparison. This is being added to prevent people from going "what about video games?!" - yes, that's my point, I was looking for something similar to video games that I could compare them too. Right now, most (not all) video games are like network television, highly restricted on content. If we could even move as far as HBO type channels, look at the kind of contrast that might create (Ie, considering how different network TV is from HBO/Showtime/Stars, imagine how different video games would be if they could have a similar lifting of restrictions).

Edit 2: Again, to make sure I'm not misunderstood. I am a proponent of removing ALL restrictions from video games (and TV, and movies, and novels, and all art) but I understand that such a cultural revolution isn't likely to occur. I want that, but it is very unlikely. So instead, I hope for a lifting of restrictions - a lessening of them. Most of my favorite TV shows currently airing are from HBO, Showtime, and Stars - shows like Game of Thrones and Spartacus. I like them because they don't have to hold back (much) while telling their stories. I would like to see video games have this same sort of freedom (or more freedom) in telling their stories.

 

[Lurklen]

SNip

Fair enough, I agree with you on most points, we share the same favorite shows. And I think many of the restrictions in other mediums are just that no one is willing to sell it. I like that most of those channels are buy in so if you want access you get it but it isn't pushed on you, to me that still makes more sense than all restrictions being lifted.

 

[Niarro]

I'm curious as to what you mean by "FPS factor" with Halo, OP.

Also, the FPS has been a 'standard' (genre) for a lot longer than Halo.

As for mainstream acceptance of violence vs sex, that's a north american societal view. It's not the same everywhere else in the world.

Also, anything can be put into a game, now and since forever. Just like with any other form of media. Putting certain things will obviously change your audience. So it's not 'the line' that's changing, it's actually your own point of view. As you get older obviously you're going to be exposed to different things, possibly progressively more graphic as people figure you can 'handle it'.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I remember a PS2 game that had a sex scene in it that wasn't God of War, I forget if there was nudity cuz I was shocked at the cutscene showing up, I didn't expect that... It was a vampire western called Darkwatch. Main character fucks the chick voiced by Rose McGowen. Totally shocked me and I never heard word one about it negatively. I also remember the game wasn't great, but wasn't horrible either. Good if you have a weekend with nothing else to do but not enough to review it in more than two similar sentences.