Where is your gaming Line in the Sand?

[Vegosiux]

I mean, seriously? They deliver you a solid thirty hours of great characters, gameplay, technical mastery, and an utter feeling that the world you've invested so much in is well and truly being ripped apart by Reapers

I'm sorry, but have we played the same game? A handful of good characters and maybe five hours of a good story - if you take it slow though those parts.

And tacked-on multiplayer was maybe free, but I generally prefer no shit over free shit...

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I have quite a few lines in the sand most of them being completely against anti-consumer practices or practices that take away my rights as an American consumer. For example I will not buy any game that has DRM including STEAM/Origin (which is why 95% of my games come from GoG), has day 1 DLC (in fact day 1 DLC is boycott material for me), I do not preorder anything unless I get the game cheaper (I feel that gambling on a game that could turn out to be crap deserves at least a 10% discount).

I dont dont accept any of that because I shouldnt have to. Copyright protection is not the job of the consumer. We're buying games. We're supporting developers and allowing them to put food on the table, not to mention keeping them in business to make more games. In any sane society you do not punish innocent people for the actions of another thats how the United states judicial system works and its why theres that line of Innocent till proven guilty. The games industry isnt working like that though and while I know not all companies are well versed in US judicial philosophies I often feel like the games industry is becoming a police state in and of itself.

With Day 1 DLC I have a very clear philosophy. The game you release to the public is one made from 100% of the funds you got to make the game. If anything couldnt make it into the game because there wasnt time but was still partially created from those funds that should be free DLC because your paying for a game that was made with 100% of those funds, not 20%, not 40%, not 90%. Anything thats made outside of that total funding is free game for DLC but if thats the case it wont be day 1 DLC either. Theres just no excuse for that business practice

Just taking some time to applaud you. I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying.

I do use steam, however, I won't lie about that. But I signed up for it before I was savvy to this DRM thing (joined the PC master race only a few years ago).

 

[MoltenSilver]

I haven't bought a triple-A title in ~half a year due to the number of publishers whose current practices I wont put up with.
A few years ago I couldn't possibly have imagined not finishing the Mass Effect trilogy, and felt the same way about the Dragon Age series after the first. Well EA's Origins service sure proved me wrong. The audacity to both bring the malware-like components of it hidden in mountains of EULA and expectation of competing against Steam while offering 0 advantages, with its only bargaining chip being holding its products hostage, is what's made me never take a second look at any recent Bioware (or other EA, but Bioware's the painful one to me) title.
That said, it doesn't seem like I'm missing much if reviews and my friend's opinions are anything to go on.

Ubisoft's comments about PC gamers and their always-on DRM has made them a complete no-chance-of-buying publisher for me as well.
Always-On DRM is an atrocious practice, and I'm saying this as someone with an internet connection that probably goes out less than my power and as powerful a connection as I can buy. I'm not going to buy something only to later see that I cant play it at all because the publisher shut down the authentication servers, or went out of business, and I have absolutely zero trust of a company removing the need for authentication down the line from a game's release, much less when they're in dire financial straits.

Related, this is also why I don't play MMO's anymore.
After City of Heroes was shut down, the frustration and sense of loss of investment (money and time) I experienced was massive enough that I'm willing to pass over any title that I'm not 100% certain I can play years later, whenever I please.

Captcha: no dice
How appropriate

 

[Twilight_guy]

I don't get mad because a company made a bad game. No developer wakes up and says "I'm going to make a shitty game today!" (unless they are doing exactly that as a an experiment), success or failure is more complicated then that.

I also have high hopes that the way games are sold will change in the future and will benefit from a modular selling strategy. DLC seems like the first steps towards that end and I think it would benefit people, so I'm quiet tolerant DLC type stuff.

Legal rights with digital material are a big mess. DRM is a pain but until companies actually have some sense of security for their product and some pirates stop being dicks its not going to end. I don't like it, but I'm more concerned with the shit that causes it then the often crappy programs that implement it.

Nothing that any company or developer has ever done, (in regards to games, screw Zenga and their illegal business dealings) has really made me mad.

 

[Mausthemighty]

You are the worst type of person.

I mean, seriously? They deliver you a solid thirty hours of great characters, gameplay, technical mastery, and an utter feeling that the world you've invested so much in is well and truly being ripped apart by Reapers, and you fixate upon the last ten minutes? And then, when they announce that they want to keep exploring this unimaginably rich universe without making cash cow sequels but honest expansions, you call them sellouts? Fuck this entitled noise.

Oh, and by the way? That "multiplayer dlc" they made to "cash in on"? It was free, Sherlock. They did it because they wan to support the community, not because they wanted to make money.

Dude. Don't act like you know everything about me and have any right to judge me and call me names.

The question was what was the last time you decided to draw the line. I was talking about that.

What they did do was take two franchises (DA and ME) and ruin them for me by releasing a rushed game (DA2) and not delivering on their promises (ME3).

Oh and btw: I didn't mean the free Extended Cut DLC that was supposed to patch the endings. I meant the Citadel DLC, the Omega DLC, the Leviathan DLC and all the weapon packs/skins for which you need to pay.

"A solid thirty hours of great characters etc indeed". And it was all ruined because someone decided that it was a good idea to take away all of my choices and decisions from the previous games and let me choose between three similar endings with different colors. That is my main reason for hating the endings.

It is clear that you obviously love Bioware to a fault and feel the need to throw money at them unconditionally. That's your choice.

But for me it is over. I want to buy good products not faulty products. They won't get any money from me anymore.

 

[astrav1]

I had high hopes for Mass Effect 3 and thought they would redeem themselves with that.
As we all know now they made a good game, I loved it and I cried when some characters died until I heard about the ending. It wasn't that important for me if there would be a happy ending or that Shepard survived. What I hated about the ending was the fact that there was a blatant disregard of my choices and the mythology of that universe. Although they tried to patch the ending it still is a stupid ending. Instead of really fixing the ending, they threw a lot of multipleyer dlc to the masses and tried to cash in on that. And now they want to make another Mass Effect? They only care about money.

You are the worst type of person.

I mean, seriously? They deliver you a solid thirty hours of great characters, gameplay, technical mastery, and an utter feeling that the world you've invested so much in is well and truly being ripped apart by Reapers, and you fixate upon the last ten minutes? And then, when they announce that they want to keep exploring this unimaginably rich universe without making cash cow sequels but honest expansions, you call them sellouts? Fuck this entitled noise.

Oh, and by the way? That "multipleyer dlc" they made to "cash in on"? It was free, Sherlock. They did it because they wan to support the community, not because they wanted to make money.

OT:

I don't really have lines in the sand so much, since I don't generally pick up games that aren't thing I'll enjoy for one reason or another, but the marketing aspect of games can be downright sickening. The OP mentioned it, but what pisses me off most is people selling skeletons of games for full price, then charging for map packs and the like.

I mean, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it if I payed $30 for a basic multiplayer-centric game, and then five dollars each for the next four map packs, but asking full price up front in addition to the DLC? That's too much.

Enjoy your dead space 3. As for me I don't buy games that I could either play on newgrounds for free, or are the generic 5 hour long cash sacks that most of mordern gaming is today.

 

[ThriKreen]

Yeah, I think they altered the EULA a bit to address people's concerns. I honestly didn't hear much about it after that. They could have switched it back for all I know =).

They did more than that [http://i.imgur.com/Fzdgk2e.jpg] - could also argue having this is better than always asking you every time. I mean, how many people actually decline Steam's request? I know I always hit send but wish it would just auto send it and stop pestering me, no matter how much Good Guy Steam is.



But it's not like verifying it really was spyware was on anybody's agenda as opposed to continuing to vilify the company.

Cuz you know, everyone knows how to read and understand file I/O tools.

 

[Signa]

Always-online DRM is an instant no-buy for me. Limited installs is also a no no, but I will make an exception if the price is right, the game is good enough, and if a revoke tool exists. I also will not give out my cash willy-nilly, since that seems to be what they are hoping for. I see things like skins going for $1-$5. Fuck that. I'll give $.50 tops. As a rule, if I feel like there's a chance the price won't be worth it, I won't buy it. Steam has done me right with that, because I never buy anything that I'm not willing to gamble a few dollars on.

Steam also gets a pass because I'm pretty sure that its DRM is as it is because they wouldn't get any publishers to sign on if it wasn't in place. It's one thing to tell the publishers that they want to sell their game, it's another to tell them they want to sell their game without any sort of protection from copying. As it is, the DRM is so loose, I've done things within Steam that I'm sure said publishers would get pretty pissed about. Namely installing it on several computers with my account, and then going into offline mode so that I can LAN with those computers. To me, that action invalidates any argument against Steam's DRM because I'm still getting the freedom of a DRM-free copy at that point.

 

[Lilani]

Because my internet has a habit of disconnecting for a second and reconnecting, I cannot tolerate always-online DRM.

Cannot. The end. At least Steam and GFWL don't disconnect you the instant you're offline and let you try to reconnect!

Same here. There is absolutely no reason for always-online DRM, except to give the company the illusion of heightened security.

 

[ScorpSt]

I don't really like always on DRM, but if the game is good enough to justify it, I'd consider it, as long as I don't lose progress if my internet spontaneously resets (as mine is prone to do; I really hate Comcast). If a game has a lot of DLC already, I'll probably wait to buy it until they come out with some sort of Complete Edition.

I guess my only real "Line in the Sand" as it were is that I stop playing a game if it starts to feel like work. That's why I stopped playing WoW and why I never really stick with Free-to-Play games.

 

[Candidus]

Bioware is almost on the list for ME3. The ending was garbage. Don't spew up the argument from artistic integrity at me. If they had any of that, they wouldn't have tacked on-- I was going to say "that lazy fanfiction masquerading as an ending", but scratch that. Any fan would have put more effort into the finale than Bioware did, and even the least gifted writer among them all would have produced something better.

Rant.

Spoiler

Screw Bioware for crushing hundreds of hours and thousands of decisions into red, green or blue explosions. For introducing the hilariously named Star Child AI God thing a minute before the end. For undermining the whole premise of the first game with his presence (the machine-ghost can whim systems into activity that will obliterate all relays everywhere, but he can't open his own front door? Fuck off. OH, but he can't use them personally, that stuff was always there as a contingency, in case of almost-victorious organics? So they harp on and on about how their cycle is the galaxy's absolute, but know in their little robot heart of hearts that one day, a meatbag champion will-- nope, piss off mr badfanfiction). For failing initially to even explain the Normandy's having used a relay.

Just a pathetic effort all around; almost as bad as the people who still to this day condone it.

/Rant.

But all that being said, the extended cut- while still keeping most of the foul, shitty components of the undeniably dreadful ending- was sufficient gesture to get me back on the court. I'm not sure I'm game or anything, but I'm on the court and waiting to see ME's next iteration.

I draw the line at cynically marketed and misleading products like Aliens:CM, just as the OP does; in that case, I was fortunate to draw the line before even pre-ordering. I also draw the line at any product that requires a superfluous-to-steam gateway service besides Origin. I'm willing to swallow Origin in exchange for BF3 (and soon BF4), and Mass Effect 3 (the first 90% of it and the horde mode, anyway). But nothing produced by Ubisoft is worth the extra hassle of Uplay.

Edit: Also, just no to whatever the hell you call what Blizzard did with Diablo 3. On several levels that I'm just not going to cover, ALL MY NOPES. Again, I'm fortunate not to have bought it.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Any decision that compromises gameplay for external (usually money-related) reasons:
-Always Online DRM (duh)
-Grind-centric gameplay (always done to artificially extend gameplay, establish a base currency for a market, or otherwise pressure the player into committing more time and money than the content would normally offer while making the game boring in the process)

Those are my two biggest.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

Are there things about the industry that piss me off? Sure. I hate being treated like a criminal by default because I choose to play PC games that I bought legitimately. I hate "disc locked content." I hate how short games have gotten now that publishers know they can fill in the hours lost with a handful of massively overpriced downloadable content. I hate the constant simplification of games in order to pander to the lowest common denominators. I hate the constant efforts to merge gaming and social networking. I hate games being constantly released before they're ready and relying on the fans to come up with their own fixes. I hate the shift from physical copies to digital copies where you spend your money and don't actually own anything. I hate having to have a dozen extra programs installed on my computer because each publisher requires its own unique service to play their games. I hate ridiculously restrictive EULA's that, for any other form of media out there, would likely be illegal (and in some countries are illegal, like Origin's EULA originally was in Germany). I hate publishers trying to force us to buy games and DLC before they're even out yet. I hate the game reviewers who show the same level of journalistic integrity as Fox News and MSNBC. I hate gamers themselves, particularly in MMOs and competitive shooters, who are insufferable bastards constantly bragging about their K ratio/gear/whatever or constantly finding excuses for why they didn't win.

There's a lot in this past-time that I'm not fond of. But at the end of the day, I'm still having fun with it. When the day comes that I'm no longer having fun - THAT will be the day that I've drawn the line in the sand. In the meantime, I'll just keep doing what I'm currently doing: avoiding anything that might get me closer to that point. Avoid publishers/developers that I feel have wronged me, pay no attention to game reviewers that are in the pocket of the industry, and most importantly, immediately disable the ability to hear voice communications in all multiplayer games.

 

[Batou667]

Pissing on the franchise. There's only so much abuse a series can take before I just wash my hands of it and walk away. With the Sonic series this equates to everything made after Sonic Adventure 2 (with the possible semi-exception of Sonic 4).

DLC: I get mightily riled with Day 1 and on-disk DLC, and even more riled when I pay for DLC that then gets underused or just stops being supported later down the line. That hasn't yet made me actually stop playing a franchise yet, and actually I thought that Gears of War 3's season pass was a good example of DLC done right, even if some of it was on-disk. Halo Reach/Halo 4 DLC, now that's a different story... (Majestic pack is out in a week, and it better not suck if it knows what's good for it).

Always Online required to play: This hasn't yet been an issue for me. Halo 4's Spartan Ops apparently requires you to be online to play, but I tend to only ever play through this with friends, so it;s a moot point, I can understand people's frustrations though.

 

[KillaBC]

To me the lack of single player focus is becoming a real grind for me. What makes it worse is that games are now priding themselves over there rich single player content such as Skyrim (Which is a good game). The shift to social competitive multiplayer is a real downer for me. Most of my friends are busy with University or have jobs and it's very rare and far between that we get all together to play games. I actually long for a game that has in depth single player be it an rpg, rts or shooter. With something innovative and different with a long life span and plenty of content.

I know it's going to be a bit of a fluff example but Battlefront 2 for the PS2 was great in my eyes. It had a fully fleged campaign (Co-op too), a Galactic conquest mode, instant action and split screen with all the modes above as well as Hunt, CTF and space battles. It was by no means perfect but it had content and it was varied.

Now most games don't have bots and in a time of powerful PC's and the next gen you'd expect some of the best sandbox AI out there but in most cases it's still thick as shit (A:CM).

Also DLC that's been cut from the game, that needs to stop now as that is a key undermining subject which is causing a loss of faith in the market.

 

[Antari]

snip

Welcome to the club! My line got leapt over quite a while ago with the introduction of DLC. I still remember the days when a game had to be finished in the box or the company went under. Because there were no patching systems. The games industry has become so lazy its beyond excuse or forgiveness. I eventually realized its a cycle. They rely on young gamers spending without checking. Its the basis of the entire business. Once you've been a customer your no longer in the demographic. Its always the next customer they want to impress. It doesn't matter how many people they piss off. As for a solution? I don't see one except for finding other things to fill the time. I still game, but I have hundreds of games. Its quite easy to hold back from a new release. Grats on breaking the cycle! Things do get better from here.

 

[J Tyran]

I mean, seriously? They deliver you a solid thirty hours of great characters, gameplay, technical mastery, and an utter feeling that the world you've invested so much in is well and truly being ripped apart by Reapers, and you fixate upon the last ten minutes? And then, when they announce that they want to keep exploring this unimaginably rich universe without making cash cow sequels but honest expansions, you call them sellouts? Fuck this entitled noise.

To some extents I totally agree, ME3 was great. It had the best mechanics and combat in the series, in its own right its a capable and solid third person shooter. Compare it to Gears, ME3 had more guns, weapon customization and the customization biotic and tech powers. The gunplay and variety of enemies created many ways of dealing with the different threats and situations are varied and fun to experiment with.

The story is OK there where some great moments in there, killing Mordin, Tali trying to kill Legion and so on. One thing annoys me with a lot of people that complain about ME3 is when they say "my choices didn't matter" well guess what? They did, sure not in the end of Mass Effect 3 so much but because the whole of ME3 is the bloody ending. Shepard finally (one way or the other) settles the conflict between the Geth and Quarians, he deals with Krogan and the genophage (one way or the other) and he finally brings down Cerberus.

The whole game was about tying up all the story arcs from the previous games as much as it was about fighting the Reapers, my mind boggles as to why people cant see that. The game shit the bed in the last 30 mins or so though, it wasn't just the Star Child. I was expecting to see an ME2 suicide mission style attack on earth where you got to choose and deploy some of the different units you collected along the way, even a tense Ilos and Citadel run would have been better than what we got.

Up until then the game was good, I can see how the end and the Star Child might have angered people enough to hate the whole game though but still it didn't retroactively go back in time and remove any fun the players might have had.

 

[wearesoneutralthatithurts]

sigh. i had a long nice text and then i decided to prepare food and left my pc and my cats without supervision.

argh.

the line: 1. dragon age 2, then the fucked up ending of an otherwise very good game (me3) and the marketing bullshit ea comes around with.
i compared my
zelda skyward sword collectors edition (a nice shiny golden hyrulian controller with integrated motion+ thingy and real cd with music for the 25 year anniversary for 10? more than the original game-the original controller is worth 24-40 ? alone) and my
new vegas collectors edition (a very pretty and solid big box, a card deck for caravan, one not real platin but nice heavy chip and some other poker-chips and a big hard cover comic (or visual novel) and a making-off-dvd for, i think 20 ? more.)
with the
me3 collectors edition(cheap box, a nice n7-velcro-patch, a very small art-book and a very small part of a comic, a few digital goodies-2 weapons, the music and some cosmetic things and THE CHARACTER WHICH IS ON THE CD and his mission for 30? more.

well, i think the last point was more like the line of the sand-the marketing practices of ea are the problem, these "we force the studios to do what we want and to put out a game with an ending no dev is satisfied with and we flood all with senseless bullshit devotional stuff..)

and i am not very wealthy, i am a student and with 600? a month, games for 60 or more are a big investment. i cant spare my money for something i think will disapprove me and ruin my day.

so, bye bye bioware and EA, and well, bye bye final fantasy games (ff12 broke it for me-there was no final fantasy feeling. i stick with mistwalker and the last story(haven't found the time to play much of it, but I like it I think) and the GREAT Lost odyssey.
for bioware games- i think i will see and if the meta-critic and fans will like the next dragon age, i will buy a used copy and see if this company (ea, i am looking at you) tries to earn my trust and my money again.

until then-there is much fun to have with nice indie games-which people which really love their work and try to create something good. not the safe, safer, the safest-ea and their mediocrity..

 

[lacktheknack]

You are the worst type of person.

I mean, seriously? They deliver you a solid thirty hours of great characters, gameplay, technical mastery, and an utter feeling that the world you've invested so much in is well and truly being ripped apart by Reapers, and you fixate upon the last ten minutes? And then, when they announce that they want to keep exploring this unimaginably rich universe without making cash cow sequels but honest expansions, you call them sellouts? Fuck this entitled noise.

Oh, and by the way? That "multiplayer dlc" they made to "cash in on"? It was free, Sherlock. They did it because they wan to support the community, not because they wanted to make money.

Dude. Don't act like you know everything about me and have any right to judge me and call me names.

The question was what was the last time you decided to draw the line. I was talking about that.

What they did do was take two franchises (DA and ME) and ruin them for me by releasing a rushed game (DA2) and not delivering on their promises (ME3).

Oh and btw: I didn't mean the free Extended Cut DLC that was supposed to patch the endings. I meant the Citadel DLC, the Omega DLC, the Leviathan DLC and all the weapon packs/skins for which you need to pay.

"A solid thirty hours of great characters etc indeed". And it was all ruined because someone decided that it was a good idea to take away all of my choices and decisions from the previous games and let me choose between three similar endings with different colors. That is my main reason for hating the endings.

It is clear that you obviously love Bioware to a fault and feel the need to throw money at them unconditionally. That's your choice.

But for me it is over. I want to buy good products not faulty products. They won't get any money from me anymore.

"You don't have any right to judge me," he says, after giving us every reason to in his first post.

"You obviously love Bioware unconditionally and need to throw money at them", he also says, trying to backpedal and clarify himself after the fact.

Delicious.

If you want us to respect your opinions and responses, then write your opinions clearer and with more thought.