Where's all the SJWs at?

[Thorn14]

Don't worry, I'll fuck your father at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance.

I WILL SALVAGE YOUR EXISTENCE!

OMG. Fappy's my mom. Totally did NOT see that coming.

OT: I kinda want to see more inclusive games...

I don't really think that warrants a radical label :/

Yeah, that totally warrants a radical label, apparently.

I wasn't offering if they are SJW or not, I said just those 2 are why its seen as a SJW fortress, I could go in depth but I don't think that'll help this article.

And I said "and that's your proof?"

Explaining doesn't help your point. It just helps you prove my point.

I don't like Jason because of his attacks on Dragon Crown's art and Patricia's articles tend to be eyerollingly bad and feel like just blog posts but that is just me.

I think that's your real reason. You don't like them. And that's basically the real application of the "SJW" label.

I agree with thorn. I don't visit it much from the impressions I've gotten from it, but Patricia Hernandez is one name I do recognise. Also from having seen multiple "Anita is a hero" and "gamers are trash" articles.

Okay, hopefully you can produce more of them than Thorn could. His attempts to provide such articles involved articles that didn't say what he was reacting to. I don't hold out much hope you'll do better, but vague impressions and vaguer claims? probably bull.

And I recognise Patricia's name, too. It's not hard. She became a scapegoat for what was wrong in the industry, to the point people were making up articles and attributing them to her. That doesn't make her evidence of anything except the internet's capacity for a hate boner.

I don't like them because of their attitude toward things that offend them and how they lash out against it. "I don't like Dragon's Crown art and shittalk it, its written by a 14 year old because it has shapely women!" Is shaming a game because it offends him. That places them in SJW territory for me. I dislike PewDiePie because I dislike his loud annoying voice in his videos, that doesn't make him a SJW to me.

Patricia makes a ton of articles that just make me roll my eyes when I hear about them. Like how a gay joke in Blood Dragon is a big fucking deal.

I mean for god sakes Escapist made a comic about all of this.

So you can't say the perception is false.

 

[Fappy]

I don't see anyone saying that, especially around here. Even "she who will not be named" (Anita) says in her videos that it's okay to appreciate and enjoy something while simultaneously pointing out and identifying its flaws.

I see people complaining that someone's coming for their games significantly more than anyone saying "this game shouldn't exist". I guess everyone slept through English class. Academic criticism is not a prelude to banning all FPSs, some people just like dissecting stuff.

It all comes down to self-validation, imo. People tend to associate criticisms of things they enjoy/agree with as direct attacks. When gamers see their favorite game under fire, many of them feel a need to defend against the criticism lest they feel lessened as an individual.

If everything needs a label, how about this one: HVWs (Hobby Validation Warriors).

 

[Thorn14]

Perception, yes. Is it true? Up for debate, but there are people who believe it exists in journalism. Yes.

Is that really so controversial?

I'm starting to feel that people don't want a discussion in this thread and just make dumb jokes, just like certain circlejerks I see in the pro #GG boards I browse.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

It all comes down the self-validation, imo. People tend to associate criticisms of things they enjoy/agree with as direct attacks. When gamers see their favorite game under fire, many of them feel a need to defend against the criticism lest they feel lessened as an individual.

If everything needs a label, how about this one: HVWs (Hobby Validation Warriors).

You need to trademark that and threaten to sue anyone who says anything using any of those three words in any order and regardless of subject matter.

 

[Jesterscup]

Don't worry, I'll fuck your father at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance.

I WILL SALVAGE YOUR EXISTENCE!

OT: I kinda want to see more inclusive games...

I don't really think that warrants a radical label :/

It doesn't, promote more games. But saying "These games are bad and shouldn't exist because they aren't inclusive enough" is not an action I support. Sorry.

I don't see anyone saying that, especially around here. Even "she who will not be named" (Anita) says in her videos that it's okay to appreciate and enjoy something while simultaneously pointing out and identifying its flaws.

It's a trope, fully developed in it's own right, that anyone criticising a game, and pointing out some area of it that can be found offensive, is calling for it to be banned.


I want to explore this a little.
I seriously believe that the only people screaming for censorship are those that have been dong so since the 90's claiming games were too violent. I want games to be better. I don't expect games to be perfect, I expect , nay demand, that some games are offensive, for freedom of artistic expression is a right. I want to play dead or alive , but I also want to play games with my daughter ( and my son too) that promote strong independent women.

What annoys me, is that by and large I agree with Saarkesian ( oh have I invited the whole Hitman abuse thing? oh god I have haven't I. Tell you what - you can do that to me when you prove she's also wrong about princess peach. Otherwise how about you assume that I agree with you, yes thats right I AGREE, I see her point of view, but on Hitman, her methods sucked, job done. ).

Why does princess peach have to get kidnapped every single time? and ( when the market is clearly different ) do most games seem to be marketed to teenage boys? Do the female supporting characters need to be killed off quite so often?

Forget the 'gender politics' here, lets fight for BETTER GAMES... Because those of us who see issues and like playing game, thats all we're asking for... Stories that are more compelling, characters that are better and more believable. Tropes are bad, if for no other reason than they are lazy, forget any other agenda.

There will ALWAYS be games some people want banned. but these are a small minority of people, and mostly they aren't gamers at all. I mean companies like rockstar use people like that for marketing their games. Similarly no-one should be listening to the minority saying we shouldn't listen to 'those people' because they want to ban our games ( I like to call the the "please don't take my titties away" response ).


Jesterscup - SJW and proud!

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't like them because of their attitude toward things that offend them and how they lash out against it. "I don't like Dragon's Crown art and shittalk it, its written by a 14 year old because it has shapely women!" Is shaming a game because it offends him. That places them in SJW territory for me. I dislike PewDiePie because I dislike his loud annoying voice in his videos, that doesn't make him a SJW to me.

A strawman portrayal places them in SJW territory. Again, not hurting my point. Dude, you can't even get your facts right when attacking the guy.

Patricia makes a ton of articles that just make me roll my eyes when I hear about them. Like how a gay joke in Blood Dragon is a big fucking deal.

More vaguery. That's useful. Though I have a feeling if you get specific, it'll be as fact-lite as Jason Schreier.

So you can't say the perception is false.

I can say the perception is false. There was a time where you would find comics about the negro and his incompetence. The perception existed, but that didn't mean it was true. Or do you think it's true because a comic mentioned it. I also notice they don't specific Kotaku, but hey.

By the way, I'm not sure Critical Miss is where you want to go to validate your argument, considering it's the strip that came up with WGDF.

 

[Fappy]

It all comes down the self-validation, imo. People tend to associate criticisms of things they enjoy/agree with as direct attacks. When gamers see their favorite game under fire, many of them feel a need to defend against the criticism lest they feel lessened as an individual.

If everything needs a label, how about this one: HVWs (Hobby Validation Warriors).

You need to trademark that and threaten to sue anyone who says anything using any of those three words in any order and regardless of subject matter.

I really should.

I would become a millionaire instantly just by looking in a GG thread for the word "warrior".

 

[Thorn14]

I don't see anyone saying that, especially around here. Even "she who will not be named" (Anita) says in her videos that it's okay to appreciate and enjoy something while simultaneously pointing out and identifying its flaws.

I see people complaining that someone's coming for their games significantly more than anyone saying "this game shouldn't exist". I guess everyone slept through English class. Academic criticism is not a prelude to banning all FPSs, some people just like dissecting stuff.

It all comes down to self-validation, imo. People tend to associate criticisms of things they enjoy/agree with as direct attacks. When gamers see their favorite game under fire, many of them feel a need to defend against the criticism lest they feel lessened as an individual.

If everything needs a label, how about this one: HVWs (Hobby Validation Warriors).

I prefer the term "Gamer" thank you. I know, we're dead and all but I'll just be a vampire I guess.

I know it is silly to take it as an attack on yourself but its a human response I think when you deeply care about something. I know I've heard people who disagree with Anita have called it attacks on Feminism before, so its not a gamer exclusive thing.

I just don't like the idea of shaming a game because of an artistic vision. Dragon's Crown is one of the most beautiful games in gaming, we can name the type of games with that kind of artstyle on one hand, and it could have seriously been hurt because of the crusade against it by one prominent website, simply because it DARED to have shapely women (and impossibly buff ass men, but we ignore that because thats just a power fantasy.)

 

[Colour Scientist]

I mean for god sakes Escapist made a comic about all of this.

So you can't say the perception is false.

Why did they make so many racist games in the 2010s? Seems like a bad idea tbh. Obviously, making terrible games in the 2000s was bad too, but that is probably an easier storm to weather than making racist games.

It's really in at the moment, very now.

It was all over New York Fashion Week, a daring departure from the terrible fashions of the 00s.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

I agree with thorn. I don't visit it much from the impressions I've gotten from it, but Patricia Hernandez is one name I do recognise. Also from having seen multiple "Anita is a hero" and "gamers are trash" articles.

Okay, hopefully you can produce more of them than Thorn could. His attempts to provide such articles involved articles that didn't say what he was reacting to. I don't hold out much hope you'll do better, but vague impressions and vaguer claims? probably bull.

And I recognise Patricia's name, too. It's not hard. She became a scapegoat for what was wrong in the industry, to the point people were making up articles and attributing them to her. That doesn't make her evidence of anything except the internet's capacity for a hate boner.

The OP asked a question, I gave my answer off the top of my head. Not a thoroughly researched answer, not a thesis, just something from the impressions I got from the few articles I read from the site a few months ago (I've just stopped caring about seriously getting into this debate anymore, it's endless, and to me, pointless). As for what articles they were, can't find em, guess that's on me. Hell maybe I'm wrong altogether, maybe I read those things on another site.

You also probably shouldn't demand evidence for claims and then make two statements and not provide evidence for them. Not that I'm asking for any, I'm looking to go to bed, not get into a debate on a subject I've lost the majority of my feelings for, I'm just saying.

 

[Thorn14]

I don't like them because of their attitude toward things that offend them and how they lash out against it. "I don't like Dragon's Crown art and shittalk it, its written by a 14 year old because it has shapely women!" Is shaming a game because it offends him. That places them in SJW territory for me. I dislike PewDiePie because I dislike his loud annoying voice in his videos, that doesn't make him a SJW to me.

A strawman portrayal places them in SJW territory. Again, not hurting my point. Dude, you can't even get your facts right when attacking the guy.

Patricia makes a ton of articles that just make me roll my eyes when I hear about them. Like how a gay joke in Blood Dragon is a big fucking deal.

More vaguery. That's useful. Though I have a feeling if you get specific, it'll be as fact-lite as Jason Schreier.

So you can't say the perception is false.

I can say the perception is false. There was a time where you would find comics about the negro and his incompetence. The perception existed, but that didn't mean it was true. Or do you think it's true because a comic mentioned it. I also notice they don't specific Kotaku, but hey.

By the way, I'm not sure Critical Miss is where you want to go to validate your argument, considering it's the strip that came up with WGDF.

Strawman?

http://kotaku.com/game-developers-really-need-to-stop-letting-teenage-boy-472724616

How is that Strawman? He outright says its designed by a teenage boy! You don't need to personally attack me too by the way. I have not attacked anyone personally here and I find that quite rude. I'm here for just a discussion, not a formal debate where I'm going to come with a million links to prove my point. Someone said Anita said we can still enjoy games and I took their word for it instead of going "WHERE ARE YOUR LINKS HUH HOW VAGUE" you know.

And I did mean the perception exists. We can disagree if its true or not, I said that its up for debate, but it does exist. I don't see why that is so freaking controversial.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm starting to feel that people don't want a discussion in this thread and just make dumb jokes, just like certain circlejerks I see in the pro #GG boards I browse.

Maybe practice what you preach?

Hell, your comments about perception validation would readily label you as an angry white virgin, because that's the perception of the people who lash out at "SJWs." Hell, you complained about the "gamers are dead" article, but that's the perception in that article. Do you believe this perception is valid? If not, how can you stick by your arguments about the "perception" of SJWs?

It all comes down to self-validation, imo. People tend to associate criticisms of things they enjoy/agree with as direct attacks. When gamers see their favorite game under fire, many of them feel a need to defend against the criticism lest they feel lessened as an individual.

If everything needs a label, how about this one: HVWs (Hobby Validation Warriors).

People do, but gamers do it more in my experience. You don't normally see Michael Bay fans backlashing because someone called his latest turd "explosion porn." They're too busy going "FUCK YEAH! WHEN THAT ROBOT BLEW UP THE OTHER ROBOT, AND ROBOT GUTS WERE LIKE EVERYWHERE!"

#notallbayfans

HVW indeed. It's just amazing that gamers seem to have the most.

 

[Fappy]

I don't see anyone saying that, especially around here. Even "she who will not be named" (Anita) says in her videos that it's okay to appreciate and enjoy something while simultaneously pointing out and identifying its flaws.

I see people complaining that someone's coming for their games significantly more than anyone saying "this game shouldn't exist". I guess everyone slept through English class. Academic criticism is not a prelude to banning all FPSs, some people just like dissecting stuff.

It all comes down to self-validation, imo. People tend to associate criticisms of things they enjoy/agree with as direct attacks. When gamers see their favorite game under fire, many of them feel a need to defend against the criticism lest they feel lessened as an individual.

If everything needs a label, how about this one: HVWs (Hobby Validation Warriors).

I prefer the term "Gamer" thank you. I know, we're dead and all but I'll just be a vampire I guess.

I know it is silly to take it as an attack on yourself but its a human response I think when you deeply care about something. I know I've heard people who disagree with Anita have called it attacks on Feminism before, so its not a gamer exclusive thing.

I just don't like the idea of shaming a game because of an artistic vision. Dragon's Crown is one of the most beautiful games in gaming, we can name the type of games with that kind of artstyle on one hand, and it could have seriously been hurt because of the crusade against it by one prominent website, simply because it DARED to have shapely women (and impossibly buff ass men, but we ignore that because thats just a power fantasy.)

Some of the things said about Dragon's Crown were unfair to be sure, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to criticize it. Personally, I have no problem with the art in the game as I know its roots (Frank Frazetta + anime right?) and there's nothing inherently malicious about having a sorceress with giant, floppy bewbs.

 

[briankoontz]

I tried searching on Google, and all I got was a mess of links related to decrying social justice or feminism anything. Can anyone help me?

It makes no sense for a warrior to be among allies, or at least so many allies that they overwhelm the opposition. A Paladin in hell is surrounded by demons or devils. That's just where he wants to be.

You're asking for the equivalent of a Paladin hangout, which would defeat the purpose of a Paladin. Paladins would only temporarily go to such a place - their real work is always among the enemy.

 

[Thorn14]

I'm starting to feel that people don't want a discussion in this thread and just make dumb jokes, just like certain circlejerks I see in the pro #GG boards I browse.

Maybe practice what you preach?

Hell, your comments about perception validation would readily label you as an angry white virgin, because that's the perception of the people who lash out at "SJWs." Hell, you complained about the "gamers are dead" article, but that's the perception in that article. Do you believe this perception is valid? If not, how can you stick by your arguments about the "perception" of SJWs?

And there it is, I disagree with you therefore I am a white angry virgin. You know I never once attacked you personally. I never called you false labels that people put onto the SJW label. And yes, that perception does exist. But I'm not so shallow as to throw a shitfit because someone claims it exists. I can disagree with that perception, but I won't deny its existence.

 

[Something Amyss]

He outright says its designed by a teenage boy!

You said "written." He was talking character design.

"I don't like Dragon's Crown art and shittalk it, its written by a 14 year old because it has shapely women!"

Your exact strawman.

If you think that calling you on this sort of thing is an attack, report me. It's not, though. It's calling you when you misattribute and distort things because, ironically, a writer hurt your feelings over a piece of artwork.

 

[Verlander]

If you sit there, have a think, realise that you are generally pretty cool with inclusion and diversity, and say "hell, I guess that makes me a SJW!", then you're wrong. That makes you a decent stand-up human being.

SJWs are people who actively try to tear down everything men know and love, who would sooner see the media and hobby in ruins just to further their own agenda or get smug self satisfaction. Therefore, they don't exist.

That is such bull. You don't speak for men, and you don't speak for what men love. Hell, you don't even speak for what "ruining" even means. As a man, do not co-opt me into this crusade to save the masculine space.

...Not sure if serious... Sorry, my bad, I'm terrible at reading sarcasm on t'internet.