Where's all the SJWs at?

[CymbaIine]

Wait if it happened in Febuary then I kinda agree with Wikipedia. It's irrelevant.

*sigh* How so? This affair, including the backlash against her baseless allegations against WizardChan (December 2013) only came to light after #GG started. Considering that it then ties to Archon's apology a couple of weeks ago, I find that it's still very relevant to the situation.

Well that depends I suppose, I thought gamergate wasn't about Zoe Quinn personally?

If that's true then how is it relevant that back in February she made tweets slagging off a proposed competition that was the target of vandals and/or hackers?

 

[Impulse725]

It looks like from the comments under that tweet that no one's taking it seriously. It looks like someone accused her of ddossing and she responded the way that she responds to everything, as far as I can tell. It's way before gamergate but that's not the only fight on the internet she's had, I hear.

 

[CymbaIine]

It looks like from the comments under that tweet that no one's taking it seriously. It looks like someone accused her of ddossing and she responded the way that she responds to everything, as far as I can tell. It's way before gamergate but that's not the only fight on the internet she's had, I hear.

Yeah I can see that. But even if we accept that she was genuinely thrilled by the attacks (and that the attacks happened) and encouraged the hate... how is it relevent? Unless it's all about how horrid Zoe Quinn is.

 

[WhiteNachos]

Since my other thread didn't really take off the way I wanted I guess I will try something more simple.

That being, where are all the SJWs who like gaming? And I don't mean the fly by night trollers or the well beaten strawmen, I mean people who are like, legit concerned about what they say and what they believe in. But also who happen to play video games.

Anyway, I only know of one solid community. ... that is it really.

Am I missing something? With all this talk of SJWs of late I would think there would be more organized cabals or some such here-bouts out there somewhere. With all this identity politics flown about I'd figure I group with my own kind, but even so, I don't even know where to look.

I tried searching on Google, and all I got was a mess of links related to decrying social justice or feminism anything. Can anyone help me?

You want to find some, go to jezebel or any other place notorious for questionable psuedo-feminist views and search for their complaints about games. Sure you'll find legit complaints but you'll find garbage like saying GTA not having any women protagonists is a feminist/social justice issue (especially when the latest lets you play as 3 men but 0 WOMEN!!), and its filled with rhetoric about how this is a sign that Rockstar doesn't care about female gamers and blahdy blahdy blah.

Yeah I know Jezebel isn't a gaming site but a lot of the SJWs don't come from game sites, and yet they'll bang on and on about it anyway. You'll find similar clickbait shit on Salon and Cracked, using leaps in logic or exaggerated rhetoric.

Hell you can find rhetoric like that on the escapist with one article that literally says "playing as a minority character is in itself a revolutionary act.". I read that and I roll my eyes at how much the author is patting themself on the back for playing a black character instead of a white one.

That escapist one alone doesn't make the author an SJW but it's a sign that that person leans in that direction.

And you can also find stuff on Kotaku, like them complaining that none of the people at Sony's PS4 reveal conference were women and acting like it's a gender/feminist/social justice issue and that Sony needs to artificially inflate the numbers because if they don't then they're sending a problematic message to woman and *wanky wanky word word*. It's that second part that makes them SJW territory.

 

[Maevine]

Social Justice Shugenja all day, all night. Also love the crap out of video games, though mostly platformers and otomes. Will play anything on the Wii or Gamecube. Favorite console is the PS2 though, and I own four, broken via over-use, which have been left mounted on my wall above my dresser to remind me I need to fix one someday. But I'm hardly vocal online and say a lot of dumb things SO I don't know how statistically significant I could ever be in these kind of discussions or anything.

*quietly skips away*

 

[R0guy]

Well that depends I suppose, I thought gamergate wasn't about Zoe Quinn personally?

I saw someone making a false claim about Zoe and TFYC, I responded by explaining Zoe and TFYC. If someone says nonsense about Ben Kuchera and Brad Wardell I will most likely respond by mentioning Ben Kuchera and Brad Wardell or if someone says nonsense about Patricia Hernandez and Max Temkin.... You can guess the rest.

That said, there is still alot of people (such as myself) who have alot of resentment against her. Particularly by getting gaming websites (which include TheEscapist) to signal boost false allegations against a community of suicidal depressives, who were then raided by alot of misinformed people and ZQ supporters. Needless to say, telling suicidals to "Go kill themselves" can have dire consequences, and perhaps did. But we'll never know since the board in question is anonymous.

The jist of it is in Archon's (Alexander Macris) apology:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12223-The-Escapist-Publisher-Issues-Public-Statement-on-Gamergate.4

But to explain is not to excuse. Our editor-in-chief, Greg Tito, having reviewed the facts at hand, concluded we ourselves have been imperfect in maintaining journalistic standards. A particularly problematic article, the one which generated his review, was about the alleged harassment of an indie developer by a forum community which denied the allegations but was itself victimized as a result of them. The article failed to cite the harassment as alleged, failed to give the forum community an opportunity present its point of view, and did not verify the claims or secure other sources. Mr. Tito has personally updated the article and spoken to all our editors about the importance of adhering to standards that will prevent such bad incidents from happening again. We, as a team, apologize for this error, both to our readers and to the forum community that suffered as a result. I, personally, apologize for this error, as well.

If that's true then how is it relevant that back in February she made tweets slagging off a proposed competition that was the target of vandals and/or hackers?

Really? We're back to square one again? She said herself, that she did the DDOS ("we", remember?), she indirectly admitted her best pal did the Doxing and the hackers did the hacking in her name. So no, it isn't just slagging off. Neither was it intended to "troll GamerGate" since the tweet was made 6 months prior. Keep up.

 

[WhiteNachos]

My guess? Us "SJWs" are all around. Some of us are on the Escapist, some on Kotaku, some on Destructoid, etc.. The reason you don't see us is because we aren't some unified, secret cabal that plot to pick apart games and picket releases we don't like. We are just gamers that want our games to be a bit better, like most gamers do. The recent mess in the gaming community has made many of us surface however, we've stopped just playing games and being content with what we got (because games are fun) to speak up about how we want games to be made, about how the community treats many of its' members (particularly those of us that didn't get a Y chromosome from our dad). Which is another reason you don't see us that much, because trying to express a simple wish to developers about how they could make their game better (such as "less sexualization of women") often ends up with us being overwhelmed by replies from angry guys who feels that we are ruining their fun by virtue of having an opinion. Better to keep your head down and try to avoid the shit storm.

Oh god drop the whole innocent victim act will you? Your 'side' is not some innocent group politely offering critique on games.

If I had a dollar for everytime someone said that the game industry or gamers (as a whole) were sexist or misogynist I'd be rich. Even if you think they are that's a hell of a lot different than "I'm tired of women in bikinis"

 

[CymbaIine]

Well that depends I suppose, I thought gamergate wasn't about Zoe Quinn personally?

I saw someone making a false claim about Zoe and TFYC, I responded by explaining Zoe and TFYC. If someone says nonsense about Ben Kuchera and Brad Wardell I will most likely respond by mentioning Ben Kuchera and Brad Wardell or if someone says nonsense about Patricia Hernandez and Max Temkin.... You can guess the rest.

That said, there is still alot of people (such as myself) who have alot of resentment against her. Particularly by getting gaming websites (which include TheEscapist) to signal boost false allegations against a community of suicidal depressives, who were then raided by alot of misinformed people and ZQ supporters. Needless to say, telling suicidals to "Go kill themselves" can have dire consequences, and perhaps did. But we'll never know since the board in question is anonymous.

This started because somebody said there was no proof that Zoe Quinn did those things. You produced something as it if were proof and it isn't. Zoe Quinn may be a complete arsehole, I truly have no idea but her general arseholery is (supposedly) nowt to do with gamergate.

Really? We're back to square one again? She said herself, that she did the DDOS ("we", remember?), she indirectly admitted her best pal did the Doxing and the hackers did the hacking in her name. So no, it isn't just slagging off. Neither was it intended to "troll GamerGate" since the tweet was made 6 months prior. Keep up.

If I asked Zoe Quinn about what she meant about those tweets what do you think she would say? I think she would say she meant something else. Like it was a joke or that she meant "we" as in people who were against the site or something else entirely. Now she could be lying and your interpretation could be completely correct but it would still just be an interpretation. It isn't proof.

If all this happened within the gamergate timeline then fair enough but it isn't. If you can't understand why Wikipedia don't want to post something so contentious as fact then I really don't know what to say.

 

[Bat Vader]

Because derp

Spoiler

Someone's probably gunna come and correct me but this is all I have to contribute. Don't know this topic well enough to debate it really.

Perhaps I am interpreting her comments wrong but it seems like she is being sarcastic and egging these people on. I find it funny how angry people are getting at her comments.

I don't. Whether she's being snarky or no, it's perpetuating a cycle of ignorance and loathing and it's reprehensible.

Edited to add:
In the name of fairness I would and have said the same thing on various unmentionable image boards when the hate machine starts up in earnest and the 'egging people on' that goes on there makes headlines. Those gents have no excuse, she has no excuse.

Eventually people have to stop kicking each other and start healing.

Yeah, but at the same time though if someone is going to attack me because they dislike something I said in snark I would continue to act snarky and egg them on.

 

[WhiteNachos]

I wasn't offering if they are SJW or not, I said just those 2 are why its seen as a SJW fortress, I could go in depth but I don't think that'll help this article.

And I said "and that's your proof?"

Explaining doesn't help your point. It just helps you prove my point.

Him choosing to not go into detail doesn't prove your point, just because they don't feel like arguing it with you doesn't mean you have a point. Nor can you generalize this to everyone who uses the label

 

[R0guy]

If I asked Zoe Quinn about what she meant about those tweets what do you think she would say?

She would tell you that she only made 4 tweets about not knowing how she felt about TFYC's approach. Which would be two big lies. Just like she told this person: https://twitter.com/TheQuinnspiracy/status/503645064623452160

I think she would say she meant something else. Like it was a joke or that she meant "we" as in people who were against the site or something else entirely. Now she could be lying and your interpretation could be completely correct but it would still just be an interpretation. It isn't proof.

If all this happened within the gamergate timeline then fair enough but it isn't. If you can't understand why Wikipedia don't want to post something so contentious as fact then I really don't know what to say.

Ohhh I see:

-There's no way to say that she was talking about TFYC.

I link to her actual twitter account.

-It wasn't her who said it it was someone else.

I link to the actual tweet.

-She only said that to troll #GG.

I point out the date.

-6 months before #GG? Well that's hardly relevant.


You do understand what goal post moving means right? You are familiar with the concept?

 

[WhiteNachos]

By the way, I'm not sure Critical Miss is where you want to go to validate your argument, considering it's the strip that came up with WGDF.

Well I mean if THEY though there was a trend that lends some credibility to it don't you think?

 

[WhiteNachos]

The OP asked a question, I gave my answer off the top of my head.

I don't care. You made a statement, back it up if it's worth anything.

As for claims, I made one in that post. You might want to recount. But hey, here's an example (original image taken down):

http://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/comments/1e3av1/

And they got this from this totally legit article:

http://trolledbot.net/?i=6013

Wait a minute you know about http://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction and you want to argue that SJWs don't exist? Is that your argument or am I misinterpreting it?

And so what if Hernandez had some straw men made of her, that doesn't make her not bad. I could make up straw men about Ann Coulter would that suddenly prove that she isn't a hateful self righteous person?

 

[WhiteNachos]

I suppose I can always go for Social Justice Hydra? Or a Social Justice Pigeon? I hope nobody took that yet.

What about one of those Eagles from LotR? You could be one of them, but social justicey. You deserve more than pigeonhood!

Well, I have been playing video-games for 20 years and that whole time wanted more female protagonists, better writing, once I got a bit older, LGBT+ people, and good stories about different life-experiences.

With dragons, if possible.

Now I want to play as a lesbian dragon of colour.

DAMN YOU, FEMINISM!

I'm trying to think of the last time I saw a white dragon and I can't. Can you.

I'm not trying to make a point I just can't remember ever seeing an albino dragon in fiction (or a dragon that's white as chalk) and now it's bothering me, I mean there must be at least ONE right?

 

[WhiteNachos]

Thank you. Now, I don't hold this opinion myself but around the circles that hate the "SJW Menace" there is a very prevalent mindset of "These people never cared about video games when we were growing up, hell they made fun of us for doing so (girls) and now they want the industry to cater to THEM?!"

So many 'anti-SJWs' are self-centered idiots, then?

Many [insert any large group of people here] are self centered idiots. Feminists, muslims, white people, black people, Jews, Christians, Tucson residents.

And SJW refers to the ones with radical views and the ones who act like special snowflakes and/or make self righteous crusades out of everything that annoys them.

There's some who self identify as misandrists, think of the worst thing that comes to mind when you think tumble feminist and that's where the term came from. Being against that is probably the majority.

 

[Thorn14]

Thank you. Now, I don't hold this opinion myself but around the circles that hate the "SJW Menace" there is a very prevalent mindset of "These people never cared about video games when we were growing up, hell they made fun of us for doing so (girls) and now they want the industry to cater to THEM?!"

So many 'anti-SJWs' are self-centered idiots, then?

Many [insert any large group of people here] are self centered idiots. Feminists, muslims, white people, black people, Jews, Christians, Tucson residents.

And SJW refers to the ones with radical views and the ones who act like special snowflakes and/or make self righteous crusades out of everything that annoys them.

Thank you. That is the point I was trying to make.

 

[Impulse725]

It looks like from the comments under that tweet that no one's taking it seriously. It looks like someone accused her of ddossing and she responded the way that she responds to everything, as far as I can tell. It's way before gamergate but that's not the only fight on the internet she's had, I hear.

Yeah I can see that. But even if we accept that she was genuinely thrilled by the attacks (and that the attacks happened) and encouraged the hate... how is it relevent? Unless it's all about how horrid Zoe Quinn is.

I was trying to make the point that twitter is not a great source for snatching quotes and interpreting them, sorry for being unclear. My point in an earlier comment was that Quinn is very often sarcastically saying "yes, I totally did this thing you accused me of", and then these are pasted together in image dumps as confessions.

I was suggesting no one is taking Zoe's tweet seriously, and eye rolling at the idea she did it.

 

[R0guy]

I was suggesting no one is taking Zoe's tweet seriously, and eye rolling at the idea she did it.

So 44 tweets get's trumped by speculation that "that's not the only fight on the internet she's had, I hear." Where she self admits to the DDOS, a *private* convo (not Twitter) with the organiser indirectly implicating one of her closest friends (Maya aka @Legobutts), and a screenshot of the recorded Hacked TFYC Indiegogo page (also not Twitter) starting with the line "We think it is abhorrent what you are doing to Zoe Quinn...".


So tell me, who was "fighting" her back then? Who? How come none of those 44 tweets have any "adversaries" replying to them (Aside from those posted in August)? Are you going to look for them and prove me wrong? Of course you won't, challenging preconceptions is really hard, I know.

 

[FlameBoyBen]

They are watching, always watching...

be on your guard