Which is the bigger problem? Piracy or DRM?

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Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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I actually don't know how bad piracy is

but it must be pretty bad to justtfiy all the hoops us honest consumers have to jump through just to play a game (like assassins creed 2, yeah ubisoft that was real FUCKING brilliant of you)

anyway it just seems that the worst of DRM is more of a problem for gamers and only serves to make us angry, I can cope with entering a cd code (and holding my breathe for that split second before it eather tells me its valid or invalid) and I can even cope with steam

But dose piracey justify all this? has DRM become a bigger problem?
 

oplinger

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Sep 2, 2010
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Piracy is not as bad as the publishers say.

Yeah it's bad...but not -that- bad.

They are both however..about equally evil, as the more publicity piracy gets, the more people get interested and learn about it, the more piracy we get and the less money they make.

However DRM pisses people off they boycott the game, or switch to piracy and we get more pirates and people learn about it tell their friends we get even more piracy and they get less money.

>> it's sort of a big circle. We pirate therefore they make DRM, they make DRM therefore we pirate..

We just don't really know what we're doing yet as far as DRM goes.
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Both pirates and Publishers are being dicks to the same large degree.

Only difference is that some pirates can only play the game through pirating(when the game isn't sold anymore/in a nation/in a nation where the cost of the game is equal to a month's salary/DRM doesn't let you play the game).

I really can't support either one. Both tend to be complete assholes and refuse to compromise. It just keeps going in a stupid, vicious cycle.
 

JourneyThroughHell

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Sep 21, 2009
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DRM is the bigger problem. It usually punishes the people who actually pay for the game, and make it better in comparison for the pirates, thus giving people more incentive to pirate.
 

TomLikesGuitar

Elite Member
Jul 6, 2010
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Honestly, it's piracy.

End of story.

That's like saying, "What's the bigger problem, terrorism, or random airport searches?"

Not saying you can always blame the pirates for what they do, though.
 

CCountZero

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Sep 20, 2008
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Piracy is illegal, and as such it is a wrongful act.

However, not all piracy constitutes a lost sale. I imagine a lot of the people who regularly pirate games got started in their youth, because they didn't have the money to buy them.

Once they get older, they usually come into more money, but likely not enough to buy every game that interests them. Because they're already so used to pirating games, they simply keep doing it, but it's important to remember that when a kid pirates 20 games a year, they likely would only have the cash to buy a few of them.

Personally, I've "circumvented" Games for Windows Live quite a few times. Strictly speaking, I didn't pirate, I simply used mods or altered .exe's, but from my own experience with it I can see the sense in people pirating games to avoid DRM. After all, DRM annoys the crap out of most of us. Today, I buy most of my games through Steam, Impulse or Direct2Drive, so I don't usually have any issues with DRM, but nevertheless.

As said, copyright infringement isn't a classy thing to partake in, but publishers are shooting themselves in the feet when they impose stricter and more intrusive DRM on the consumers. I personally know people who have bought a game, and then downloaded a DRM-free pirated version. I don't consider that illegal, I consider it consumer rights.

The only way to combat piracy is for publishers to change their business models.
Whether that's possible or not is unknown to me, but piracy is not something we will ever be rid of, for better or for worse.
 

CCountZero

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Sep 20, 2008
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I'd like to add a post from a thread lost to my memory, a long, long time ago.

This is not my own work, and I only know the guy who wrote it as "-M"

It's not about game piracy only, but rather about piracy as a whole.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The issue is not that it isn't theft. The issue is that technology has democratized consumption, and the companies at the heart of the issue have failed to react, adapt, and cater to these new consumption methods in an effective way.
Media companies are adamant about retaining their control over the consumption habits of customers, and desire to direct the path of the industry themselves.

The fact of the matter is that piracy, theft or not, DOES serve a functional purpose for consumers aside from simply taking shit they want without paying.
The ability to try before you buy, as it were (which, as evidenced by the consumption patterns of pirates, is a pretty common pattern of behavior), allows customers to identify and expose themselves to more media, and to more knowledgably direct their money towards artists and content creators that they feel have earned it. The democratization of media allows consumers to identify products they don't like, preventing them from wasting money, and allowing them to spend that money on products they do.

Legal Consumption in this manner isn't inherently costing media companies money. More simply it's made consurmers much more avid, efficient consumers of media, and has granted us a much greater ability to direct industry trends.

Under the old model of content distribution, media finding and exploration present HUGE financial obstacles to consumers. This is what generated the pop superstar back in the 50's and 60's. With those obstacles being torn down, the industry has seen a huge surge of indie artists, and unknowns getting significant exposure. The industry is seeing fewer big, easily bankable stars, but the tradeoff is thousands upon thousands of niche markets, scrambling for more.

The industry needs to work at monetizing and catering to this new breath of taste, and they need to bereak down the barries of media exploration. Understand that people want to know what they're spending their money on before that money is spent, and the industry needs to find ways of providing that access to information in a low-investment way.
It's not impossible to rebuild an industry model around consumer need. But the way to curb piracy, and wrap these people into the fold is decidedly not to call them all criminals and sue them into the dark ages.

It's also not to cling vehemently to a distribution model that was born there.
A person who pirates 1000 CDs, but buys 100 of their favorites is doing a great deal more to support the industry than a person who bought 5 or 6 nickelback records, and Big Shiny Tunes 3.

It's also worthy of note - in the old model it's up to the industry to find, identify, and build fanbases for artists. Under the new model, we do that for them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Written by " -M " a long time ago, don't remember where)
 

Om Nom Nom

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Feb 13, 2010
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Considering that the definition of piracy publishers have extends to breaking/modifiying the DRM at all (which means using any no-CD/-DVD patches, mods for games not designed to be mod-able, making a backup copy in case your disk gets damaged, unofficial patches and some other bits and pieces I can't get off the top of my head all make you a pirate, even if you bought the game from a retailer and have the receipt, box and disk to prove it)... yeah.

It's a trick question, really. The problem is overly greedy publishers. Not the DRM (though that doesn't help). Piracy isn't good either, but until publishers don't charge $50+ per game (most of which not having a single original idea in them), piracy will never go away. Developers have the internet for cheap distribution: they shouldn't NEED a publisher anyway. Put a great game out there in the e-wilds, perhaps with some cheap banner ads scattered about, and it would quickly self-distribute (or maybe 'go viral' is a more descriptive term) via word of mouth and filesharing.

Though, going with the choices, I'd pick at the DRM. It's just wasted (as in, it'll be cracked within a week or two) money and effort that could have been put to much better use in the development of the actual game. Some of the best games I have ever played had little to no DRM (i.e. Minecraft [http://minecraft.net/] to give a modern example).
TL;DR
Neither, Publishers are to blame for both. You shouldn't NEED a publisher when you've got the Internet.
 

Choppaduel

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Mar 20, 2009
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DRM. not fun for people who have payed for the game and have to put up with it.
fun for hackers as they circumvent the protection.
 

CCountZero

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Sep 20, 2008
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Om Nom Nom said:
Neither, Publishers are to blame for both. You shouldn't NEED a publisher when you've got the Internet.
That's actually... thought provoking. Why didn't I think of that before?
 

Om Nom Nom

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Feb 13, 2010
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CCountZero said:
That's actually... thought provoking. Why didn't I think of that before?
I will happily have the man-babies of the first development studios that realize it. xD Steam doesn't really count in this case; they lose out for forcing you to use a client to play your games (E: But as far as DRM goes, it's a lesser evil IMO as it delivers some extra features and tools.).
 

CCountZero

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Sep 20, 2008
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Om Nom Nom said:
I will happily have the man-babies of the first development studios that realize it. xD Steam doesn't really count in this case; they lose out for forcing you to use a client to play your games.
Not to mention that Steam is insanely expensive these days.

Example:

Black Ops on Steam - 420 DKK
Black Ops on Direct2Drive.co.uk - 310 DKK

Funny thing is that buying it from D2D gives you a STEAM INSTALL, that links it to your Steam account. How the HOLY MOTHER OF GOD does that make any sense?!?
 

Cryo84R

Gentleman Bastard.
Jun 27, 2009
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Piracy. Blaming someone else for your misbehavior is the hight of immaturity.
 

Om Nom Nom

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Feb 13, 2010
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Cryo84R said:
Piracy. Blaming someone else for your misbehavior is the hight of immaturity.
Because it's fun to blindly spend $50-60 only to find out what you just bought is horse crap (or not to your tastes), amirite?
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Sep 26, 2008
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DRM. No contest. I can ignore the pirate scene if I want; I can't ignore Assassin's Creed 2 kicking me out of the game because my or Ubisoft's internet went down.

Pirate Kitty said:
Piracy;

DRM can be a pain.

Piracy can bankrupt a company.
"Can" and "Does" are two very different things. Piracy isn't nearly commonplace enough to run a company bankrupt; not to mention that not every pirated copy of a game is actually lost profit. Here's a little thought exercise; if a man has no money and pirates 3 games published by the same company, how much money has that company lost? Mind that I'm not justifying piracy with this question, simply pointing-out that piracy doesn't always mean the company loses money.

TomLikesGuitar said:
Honestly, it's piracy.

End of story.

That's like saying, "What's the bigger problem, terrorism, or random airport searches?"

Not saying you can always blame the pirates for what they do, though.
An interesting analogy, my counter to that would be to ask what is the death-toll on video game piracy. While I get what you're comparing, it's a bit of an extreme example.
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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Sep 26, 2008
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Cryo84R said:
Piracy. Blaming someone else for your misbehavior is the hight of immaturity.
That statement applies to DRM more than it does piracy. While some people might get into piracy because they're sick of DRM, it's a small percentage of over-all piracy. Meanwhile 100% of DRM practices blames piracy for its existence.

Edit: Mind you, if you feel piracy is a bigger problem, then feel free. Just make sure you use a reason that isn't more applicable to the side you're supporting.
 

icame

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Aug 4, 2010
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Drm is their to stop piracy. If piracy disappeared then drm would too. So my vote is that piracy is the bigger problem, and i hope one day piracy can be eliminated so the developers/publishers can just worry about crafting a great experience.