WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!

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Shingro

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Oct 4, 2007
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Overquoted said:
Shingro said:
You're upset about bronies/whatever being insults. Got it. But it's the wrong place to be offended over that. It's completely tangential to the topic at hand. (Any sub-group that has funny behaviors or hobbies is bound to get mocked. See: romance novel readers, train set builders, nerds circa 1986, etc.) So I'm going to leave it at that and walk away.

People are people, if the comic wasn't SO savage I might not even care. You don't see any posts from me on the Eva comics you'll note and they're just as much 'people' as everyone listed here. However the comic is SO savage and touches on VERY sensitive ground in the worst most harsh way. I mean... a zimmerman joke by a white guy using a black mouthpiece really? Right after he uses him to (arguably) trivialize the experience of being black and how it might shape your character... I dunno... As far as I can see it's an ugly and gross thing to do, and I'll admit it it makes me kinda mad.

If you're going to be savage, you gotta have laser precision, and this comic isn't even close to that.

I'm trying to communicate with you my perspective. I understand and totally agree with what you said. (minus all the 'boy you're thickheaded' style insults to me.) Can you at least understand the perspective I'm working with?
The Zimmerman joke was deliberate. It was meant to show how some white guys sincerely don't understand why the Zimmerman incident was so upsetting to many black people. They see it as a 'stand your ground' issue while everyone who isn't white goes, "Oh, great. Another unarmed black kid just got murdered by a white guy." Because it's common. (Because of prejudices that black guys are going to attack white people or are far more likely to commit violent crime than anyone else.) And because when it happens, regardless of the situation, the WGDF is there. Always. Everywhere.

Just like in the comic.
I very much disagree about this being 'the wrong place' again, he *had* a laser focus on his main topic (racism) and he *intentionally* expanded it to burn other groups. Exactly how we want to write the direct rules of 'association' and 'correlation isn't causation' and such. That's a really rough choice, and it's all the worse because he did it here in a topic that there was *no* way wasn't going to attract all sorts of ugly feelings, and a lot of sorta 'default' cheerleading. "Yeah! Fuck those racists they're assholes!" Is a super easy slam dunk. basically also saying "oh, and bronies and hipsters and awkward fat nerds too" while everyone is cheering a smite against racism strikes me as *unnecessarily* hateful.

You certainly understand the core of my complaint, I feel it's a bit more wide then that but I completely understand if we must agree to disagree about the topic. Judging from @GreyTheTick he seems to have gone from "yeah, screw you guys I should print t-shirts!" to "H-hey That's a totally legit question to ask a developer! Gosh! Lets talk about something else maybe? Dishonored? Devil May Cry?!" So unfortunately it's unlikely I'm going to get any real closure from the guy himself.

Still I appreciate you engaging me here at the end in a more civil manner. It's a half loaf from getting a response from his head as to his intentions to see how they measure up against the best and the worst they might be... but if that's all I get I'll take it, and I appreciate it.
 
Aug 31, 2011
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Jamz said:
You'd also be wrong. Those crimes are only indicative of hate crimes. There's an obvious bias in what gets reported as a hate crime and what does not. So basically your source is useless.
Useless, no. But violent crime by race doesn't prove motivational intent either. If I'm a criminal and live in an area where 87% of the population is white, and I commit say...30 crimes. What is the likelihood that many, if not a majority, of those were against white people? And not because I was specifically targeting them.

Secondarily, Table 43A of my initial source from the FBI indicates that although only ~13% of the population, over 40% of the murders committed, 25% of forcible rapes, and over 33% of all aggravated assaults were committed by African-Americans. That's against the whole population, white and black.
And? We already know about high-crime areas and ghettoization. I question how many of those crimes would fall into that category.

And it's a table of arrests. Arrests, not convictions. Do we really want to get into a conversation about the different ways the justice system treats whites and blacks? Cuz I promise, there's a wealth of evidence out there for bias against blacks.

But if your point is, "black people commit more crimes and are therefore [insert word]," I'm just going to stay away from that.

Further, in 2010 there were 447 Black on White murders and 218 White on Black murders. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl06.xls

This solidifies my point using some of the original data that I linked.

I thought that maybe, just maybe, you might be able to figure out that the black on white crime was higher than white on black based on Table 42. But I suppose I shouldn't really give you that much credit.

Edit: Granted, the last table was only for 2010. More data probably needs to be compiled. And it doesn't say anything as to violent crime in general, but I would assert that the murder rate is indicative of the violent crime rate as well.
So your point is that more black-on-white crime exists than white-on-crime (for 2010). I'll refer to my earlier point about the likelihood of victims being of a specific race when they're a majority of the population. Of black offenders' murder victims, 15% were white. Of white people's victims, 7% were black. Meanwhile, whites were 72% of the population and blacks were 12%. Good news is, we like to murder our own race more often than not.

Bad news, not much was proven in either direction.
 

thethird0611

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Feb 19, 2011
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knight steel said:
TopazFusion said:
umm, okay. If you guys are really this determined to get yourselves banned, might I suggest simply PMing a mod and asking for a banhammer straight to the face?

It's quicker and less painful than what's happening here.
Why don't you guys just lock the thread?

I mean if this was any other thread it would already be locked before it reached seven pages but for some reason you guys are keeping it open despite all the hostile flaming and attacks that are going on.

If you guys really care about all the attacking/warnings/bile just use your mod powers to close this thread and be done with it there no more discussion to be had.

That is unless you want the flame war to continue in order to gain more clicks and in turn earn more money from the advertisment's or perhaps you're not allowed to lock threads based on contributors works in which case why?

I'm not attacking you/the staff or anything I'm just genuinely curious as to why this has gone on for so long without definite action to stop it.

OP: I found the comic funny-Am I the only one who thinks the costume for the Omega guy is totally badass :D
Im pretty sure, if I remember past threads correctly, that they dont lock featured content threads. I dont know the specifics of -why-, but im pretty sure thats the reason it hasnt been locked yet.
 

Ishal

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Oct 30, 2012
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-Dragmire- said:
Ishal said:
Oh Jesus. If this thread doesn't turn into seven pages of arguing I'm going to be really disappointed.

Omega, alpha, and beta males. The Twilight Sparkle plushy was inspired, as was the fedora.
Sounds like quite the underestimation at this point...

I take it you're not disappointed?
Nope. The biggest draw to these strips is the comments. I knew this would be like poking a hornets nest, and look at it. Glorious. Simply glorious. It's the same people who always comment and argue in the gender issues and feminism threads. The same people who argue over it, gain no ground, and change nothing. Though some would say they make the forums worse by making it so other topics (potentially more fun, lighthearted ones, are eclipsed) and they may have point. After a while of perusing the topics due to my own masochistic tendencies, certain names/avatars start to stick. One of them got banned in this thread and more might well be on their way. Not bad.

The funniest part? For all the claiming that this is troll/flame bait, its those same people who comment again and again and make this thing go over 1000 posts. What's rule number 1 about trolls again? Oh... right...

See, some posters seem to think Grey is laughing at this and admiring his handy work. Dry washing his hands plotting evil schemes about he can make another one of these to incite flame wars. If he is indeed doing that, it because some of these posters have given him a reason to.
 

scorptatious

The Resident Team ICO Fanboy
May 14, 2009
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I'm loving the amount of rewritten versions of the comic. This needs to be a meme.
 

Caiphus

Social Office Corridor
Mar 31, 2010
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knight steel said:
Why don't you guys just lock the thread?
I believe that it's impossible to lock a thread that is created by content, such as videos, comics, et cetera.

This was also the reason that they didn't lock the Zero Punctuation thread in which similar amounts of rage and shiptoasting occurred.
 

knight steel

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Jul 6, 2009
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thethird0611 said:
Well that a crummy system-If your going to lock systems you should be consistent on what you lock.
*SIGH*
But the Escapist has always had a bad case of double standard when it comes to contributors compared to the average Escapist user.
*SHRUG*
Still at least we get to watch a fun shit storm so I guess that's a bonus I suppose.
*Chews Popcorn*
 

knight steel

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Jul 6, 2009
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Caiphus said:
knight steel said:
Why don't you guys just lock the thread?
I believe that it's impossible to lock a thread that is created by content, such as videos, comics, et cetera.

This was also the reason that they didn't lock the Zero Punctuation thread in which similar amounts of rage and shiptoasting occurred.
Do you know why it's impossible surely they could do it if they really wanted to-it is their site after all it just seems strange is all.
 

shrekfan246

Not actually a Japanese pop star
May 26, 2011
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knight steel said:
Caiphus said:
knight steel said:
Why don't you guys just lock the thread?
I believe that it's impossible to lock a thread that is created by content, such as videos, comics, et cetera.

This was also the reason that they didn't lock the Zero Punctuation thread in which similar amounts of rage and shiptoasting occurred.
Do you know why it's impossible surely they could do it if they really wanted to-it is their site after all it just seems strange is all.
Staff don't want Featured Content threads locked, most likely because it contributes to ad revenue and helps pay the content contributors.

The mods would get in trouble for locking it down, and the staff aren't going to be back in until Monday.
 

Shadowstar38

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Jul 20, 2011
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knight steel said:
Caiphus said:
knight steel said:
Why don't you guys just lock the thread?
I believe that it's impossible to lock a thread that is created by content, such as videos, comics, et cetera.

This was also the reason that they didn't lock the Zero Punctuation thread in which similar amounts of rage and shiptoasting occurred.
Do you know why it's impossible surely they could do it if they really wanted to-it is their site after all it just seems strange is all.
You're starting to ask too many questions around here kid. People go missing 'round here for that.
 

ArithianFlame

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Jun 11, 2013
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Hover Hand Mode said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Why is Beta a brony? That shit still confounds me.
After encountering about 3 real-life examples of White Guy Beta, I'd say the artist simply drew from reality.
I was going to post a long and witty response to this comic/post explaining why I don't like it and why I feel it doesn't contribute anything worthwhile. Instead, I will embrace my cynicism, tip my hat, and walk into the sunset.
 

Phrozenflame500

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Dec 26, 2012
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1000 posts and 30 pages, you guys are terrible people nice work guys! Next time I want to show people how the internet debates controversial, multi-sided, morally ambiguous issues like basic racial equality I'll direct people to this thread.
 

N3squ1ck

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Mar 7, 2012
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This is me at 4:15 am, after some beers and a terrible night on a family celebration, so excuse my sloppy language:

I don't think that this comic is all that funny, but then again, I absolutely hate strawmaning, which this thing clearly does.

I /really/ miss the days when videogame websites were, you know, about sodding videogames and not social justice issues. Those are important, don't get me wrong, and we have to have this discussion in the gaming communities too, but not this terrible circlejerking that is sometimes celebrated here. If I would want this I would go to Kotaku, Jezebel, or Tumblr. We don't need the millionth flame-bait comic, we need to have a real discussion and not trolling - countertrolling, no matter who started it.

I really am concerned about social issues in the real life, but videogames are my way to escape the real world and just lean back and relax in another world. I don't want to get the real world involved there.

Also, kinda funny that this weeks Jimquisition discussed exactly this topic too and that a lot better.
 

Caiphus

Social Office Corridor
Mar 31, 2010
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knight steel said:
Do you know why it's impossible surely they could do it if they really wanted to-it is their site after all it just seems strange is all.
Well, the mods don't own the site. They need to answer to someone. And I assume that 'someone' told them not to lock content threads. For whatever reason.

It could be that the thread is locked/connected to the content somehow, and locking the thread would screw with it. I don't know. In any case, the mods have said before that they don't do it:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.825922-Zero-Punctuation-Papers-Please-and-Brothers-A-Tale-of-Two-Sons?page=14#20062734

Normally, a thread as vitriolic and derailed as this would've been locked many pages ago. But because this is a Featured Content thread, it cannot be locked.
Another mod further down that page seemed to suggest that it was more a moral stance/standard procedure thing than an impossibility:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.825922-Zero-Punctuation-Papers-Please-and-Brothers-A-Tale-of-Two-Sons?page=14#20065383

We don't lock feature content threads. That's just not something we do
Edit: I see shrekfan got in an explanation before I did. Splendid.
 

EvilRoy

The face I make when I see unguarded pie.
Legacy
Jan 9, 2011
1,858
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Moth_Monk said:
Wait.....


...Doesn't Yahtzee wear a fedora?

:O



Thats actually a Trilby, some consider it a sub-category of fedora (it can be referred to as a 'crumpled fedora'), but is significantly different in that it will tend to have a more tightly shorn brim than a fedora and, rather than a guttered crown that might be seen in a fedora, the trilby has a shallow edge-eased crown.

As it was drawn in the comic, it seems like the thin brim of the trilby was mixed with a more fedora like guttered crown. Now that I look at it again, it looks more like a Französin missing a feather.

...

HAT LOVERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!

Edit:

I've changed my mind. I think as it was drawn the hat looks more like an unadorned traditional Trachtenhut. Although he would be wearing it wrong in the image if it is. Its supposed to tip back on your head, not forward.
 

knight steel

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Jul 6, 2009
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shrekfan246 said:
Staff don't want Featured Content threads locked, most likely because it contributes to ad revenue and helps pay the content contributors.

The mods would get in trouble for locking it down, and the staff aren't going to be back in until Monday.
So in the end it comes down to a double standard based around money-contributors and their content/threads make money our's don't so we are expendable.
*EXHALE*
Well that incredibly sad and disappointing I mean I always suspected but still so sad :(
Shadowstar38 said:
You're starting to ask too many questions around here kid. People go missing 'round here for that.
Don't I know it and considering my health bar.......I think I'll be leaving now:
 

Shadowstar38

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Jul 20, 2011
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ArithianFlame said:
Hover Hand Mode said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Why is Beta a brony? That shit still confounds me.
After encountering about 3 real-life examples of White Guy Beta, I'd say the artist simply drew from reality.
I was going to post a long and witty response to this comic/post explaining why I don't like it and why I feel it doesn't contribute anything worthwhile. Instead, I will embrace my cynicism, tip my hat, and walk into the sunset.
Bullocks. You can't do that. Now I'm going to forever wonder what that post consisted of.

Hover Hand Mode said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Why is Beta a brony? That shit still confounds me.
After encountering about 3 real-life examples of White Guy Beta, I'd say the artist simply drew from reality.
I disagree!

Phrozenflame500 said:
1000 posts and 30 pages, you guys are terrible people nice work guys! Next time I want to show people how the internet debates controversial, two-sided, morally ambiguous issues like basic racial equality I'll direct people to this thread.
...two sided and morally ambiguous are contradictions.
 

Shingro

New member
Oct 4, 2007
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ArithianFlame said:
Hover Hand Mode said:
Shadowstar38 said:
Why is Beta a brony? That shit still confounds me.
After encountering about 3 real-life examples of White Guy Beta, I'd say the artist simply drew from reality.
I was going to post a long and witty response to this comic/post explaining why I don't like it and why I feel it doesn't contribute anything worthwhile. Instead, I will embrace my cynicism, tip my hat, and walk into the sunset.
He's a class act isn't he? Alt account too. *Clearly* the guy everyone wants to be.