WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO!

[Rebel_Raven]

I'm going to stop reading Critical Miss. These guys are only interested in self-righteous flame bait. That's great at producing clicks, not for rational conversations on serious issues.

People who claim that they don't get what's offensive about this comic. Imagine someone drawing the same exact comic, but replaced the three white men with a feminist, African-American, and a transgendered person. You can bet that you and the comics' creators will be crying, "OMG!!! BIGOTRY!!!"

Thing is those 3 white guys are already bigots.
They're the people that fight against diversity. When someone complains about representation, sexism, and/or racism, these are the people that try to shut it down because they have it worse or something. They're condescending, rude, and basically don't want anyone to have any of their pie.

Walk into a gender issue thread, especially about games, and see the people that bring up pretty much these exact arguments and you'll generally see those people that the comic is aimed at.

I'm not saying an african american, a feminist, and a trans gendered can't be bigoted, but what sense would it make? Why the heck would they be mad about a black guy talking about the lack of black people as protagonists when one would be seemingly on his side?
More over, you're picking on the victims in your swap. The people who're under-represented, so yeah, it'd get more heat. The comic isn't even picking on white men in general, but the people that defend the sea of default white males in te manner I described..

Of course those 3 white guys don't represent all of white men. I'd like to say we all know that, but apparently that'd be a lie.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

Look, I was just trying to point out to Dansrage that what he seems to be describing from his POV is something more like Ethnic Cleansing than Genocide. Now agree or disagree with the guy, but your argument on interracial marriage is with him, not me. I'm not the one labeling interracial marriage as a form of Genocide.

Actually, it's your understanding of the terms that are absurd. Neither term refers specifically to the indigenous peoples of south america[footnote]the term used for them in academic circles, weirdly enough, is "amerindians," even though it's "native Americans" for the indigenous peoples of North America[/footnote], but to the descendents of the Spaniards who invaded starting in the 15th century. Many of those descendants also have native american in them, because especially at first, there weren't all that many European women to go around. But it's a far cry from all of them.

You make it sound as if I was the one who came up with this definition of the word, but I'm not. I'm telling you what I've always heard, seen, and read.

Also, I've met people from Spain before and they never introduced themselves as Hispanic so it seems quite odd that people who live on another continent would insist on using the word "Hispanic" to mean that they have Spanish heritage when Spanish exchange students don't use that word in such a fashion.

Thinking about it now, the only alternative I have ever heard was the word, "Mestizo" but that was only on rare occasions, and the people who used the word....well, lets just say that their people who have very "strong beliefs"(see:racist) on the subject of race and its best to avoid them unless you find it amusing to read something that belongs on 4chan(and personally I don't find such things amusing).

As for "Latino" vs. "Hispanic," that actually /is/ one of those things that make no sense. It's just another step on the euphemism treadmill, with "hispanic" heading towards the offensive side.

Edit Edit: And actually, there is a reason for it: some people are starting to get offended because if you look in the dictionary, it defines the term as people from the island of Hispaniola. Latino is a more general word. Which is funny, since Latino is Spanish for "Latin Person," and Latinos aren't exactly known for their descent from the ancient Romans (although their language is), but that's how these things work. They don't always make total sense.

....

Spoiler: Mod edit: Please add spoilers for images!

So both words apparently fail to describe the people of Central and South America because one apparently just refers to to non-native people with Spanish genealogy while the other refers to people from a particular Island? *Facepalm*

Well I guess I learned something today, huh? Seems like the best I guess the proper thing to do is drop both words, Hispanic and Latino, from the common Lexington and instead start using the word "Amerindians".

 

[SAMAS]

The "kid" was beating his head into the ground. This is self defense, pure and simple.

Where I come from, losing a confrontation you started is known as "Getting Your Ass Kicked", not "Self Defense." That kind of thing is why the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to confront him.

could have chosen to not engage

Can you cite your source that prove that Zimmerman engaged anyone?[/quote]

The 911 call, where he was specifically told to leave the dude alone. Advice that he ignored.

 

[madwarper]

Where I come from, losing a confrontation you started is known as "Getting Your Ass Kicked", not "Self Defense."

Yes, Zimmerman was attacked and "getting his ass kicked", but can you offer the slightest shred of proof that Zimmerman started the confrontation? No? Thanks for (not) sharing.

Zimmerman was justified in using lethal force against his attacker.

That kind of thing is why the 911 operator told Zimmerman not to confront him.

Except, that didn't happen. Go listen to the 911 tape, read the transcript. Become educated about the facts of the case.

The 911 call, where he was specifically told to leave the dude alone. Advice that he ignored.

Again, you're wrong. That's not what was said.

 

[Qa'id Dzaigomshogiyyeh]

Well, white hetero males ARE the only ones you can legally make fun of.
However, it seems that they're the only group that isn't allowed to speak up
for themselves, and when they do, they get made fun of even more (such as in this comic)
and it gets trivialized.

Now, I don't know where the My Little Pony and the Fedora thing comes from, since
people who watch MLP and wear fedoras tend to also be the ones who make fun of/hate
white males (i.e. liberal-progressives), so that makes no sense.

I'm glad when whites stand up for themselves against all the "da ebil whyte maynn" garbage.

 

[Lilani]

Well, white hetero males ARE the only ones you can legally make fun of.

When did Dave Chapelle, Reginald D. Hunter, Gabriel Iglesias, Boondocks [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhgwy9y5ttA], and this video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8] stop existing?

 

[Hover Hand Mode]

Now, I don't know where the My Little Pony and the Fedora thing comes from, since
people who watch MLP and wear fedoras tend to also be the ones who make fun of/hate
white males (i.e. liberal-progressives), so that makes no sense.

Now who's the one stereotyping?

 

[ngl42398]

Your lack of maturity and arrogant sense of self-righteousness and "Political Correctness" never ceases to amaze me, Johnathan.

I'm not so sure "political correctness" was ever an issue for this comic to begin with. They've been preachy in the past, and they'll continue to be preachy in the future. This is probably the most flamboyant they've ever been, but that was sort of the point. And given the level of maturity displayed by some posters in these 37 pages so far, I'd say they knew their target right from the start, and flawlessly nailed it. An irrationally overblown comic for an irrationally overblown sector of the community.

Perhaps you do have a point. I suppose I shouldn't get so upset, considering this is Critical Miss. This strip in particular just seemed to really bother me.

 

[Gunjester]

Too many to pick one to quote so I'll just throw these out there:

1. My family is largely from Brazil and Argentina, but by ethnicity are European, a mix of Italian, Austrian, Polish, Basque, Moore, and a wee bit of Hebrew (though we're Catholic). Anyways, we always referred to Hispanic as Central and South American natives/mixed, i.e. Mexicans, Columbians, Peruvian, etc. Whereas Latino was a phrase for Latin-language Europeans, like Portuguese, Italian, Spanish and sometimes French. Everyone we knew believed the same, but we're in Canada now, not America, so I guess it's a regional thing.

2. I don't know much for the Zimmerman trial, from what I can collect it was an idiot tracking a hood which resulted in the hood attacking the idiot and the idiot killing him with a gun. Fact of the matter is, even if the hood had lethal intentions attacking him, he wouldn't have means to carry out those intentions if the idiot wasn't armed. There would have been a beating, but it's ludicrous to think that he'd murder him just because he followed him. Furthermore, Zimmerman was an adult, not another teenager, and had horrifically poor judgement in handling that situation. If I attacked an armed man, for any reason, I'd probably go for the gun too, if not just to throw it away or something. I'm not saying Trayvon was justified in his attack, I'm not saying he was pure of heart and was making the situation better, or wasn't doing something that would've provoked Zimmerman. I'm just saying that the situation probably wouldn't have resulted in a death if the gun wasn't there, maybe a beating, but probably not a death.

 

[Wolf In A Bear Suit]

I really don't get what the problem is here. Somebody care to explain it to me. I mean I got the Zimmerman, MLP and Fedora thing but why are people offended exactly. Seems to be pointing fun at a group of idiotic people who do indeed exist. I assume they aren't generalisation for the entire race. If it was, well colour me shits to give free. Honestly don't get worked up over internet comics you'll live longer and might even make a friend. Fair enough if you don't like it and didn't make a big deal but honestly, this is the battlefield of the keyboard warriors.

 

[TheMigrantSoldier]

I feel like such a rookie not knowing the negative implications a fedora brings. The Zimmerman reference was done in poor taste but that's it.

I've seen a lot of accusations of "Strawman" yet I fail to see how this comic does such a thing. Can someone elaborate?

 

[Dragonbums]

I feel like such a rookie not knowing the negative implications a fedora brings. The Zimmerman reference was done in poor taste but that's it.

I've seen a lot of accusations of "Strawman" yet I fail to see how this comic does such a thing. Can someone elaborate?

Nothing to elaborate on.

This is basically a case where the people who are targeted in this comic came here in droves to complain, while others for the most part sit back and laugh.

And honestly, I have seen these very responses multiple times on this very website, so Grey isn't that far off the mark in that regard.

 

[SidheKnight]

Not saying that I'm supporting Dansrage but I think you should look up what Genocide actually is, as opposed to what people commonly believe it to be(and associate it with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust]). As stated in the U.N. defenition [snipped for brevity]

You've stated the difference in your own post, the divide between genocide and widespread miscegenation is intent. Breeding with a different ethnic group is only genocide if the intent is to supplant their cultural identity with your own and destroy their heritage. The Great Migration ended the Roman cultural identity in most of Europe and supplanted the Latin-Roman identity in Italy with a new Italian identity. This was not a genocide, dozens of different tribes migrated into and settled lands abandoned by the collapsing Roman Empire, these groups were in turn absorbed into others and developed new identities. How many Goths are still around today? Vandals? Scythians?

Interbreeding with other ethnic groups and the eventual end of cultural identity is a pretty natural part of human existence, it's only immoral when it's a result of a larger power utilizing miscegenation to control a population. Then what naturally results is alot of slavery and rape. If anyone in this thread sincerely believes that miscegenation is concerted effort to force a "white genocide" I'd suggest they're a barely closeted Neo-Nazi. Next they'll be telling me teh J00s control the media and Israel ZIONISTS were behind 9/11.

I've seen a lot of accusations of "Strawman" yet I fail to see how this comic does such a thing. Can someone elaborate?

I don't know enough about MRAs to comment on where the fedora thing came from, but I'd suggest that perhaps more blatantly misogynistic elements of the MRM use the fedora as a symbol of male masculinity? Couldn't really say.

As for the strawman thing, any and all satire ultimately is a strawman. The comic itself is an over-the-top satire of a few common internet personalities that pop up in debates of race/gender issues; there's the politically motivated and severely misinformed Beta, who doesn't even wait to be corrected on what he's wrong about before assigning blame for his made-up grievance. The socially inept Omega, who is such an asshole and so egotistical he takes a lack of knowledge for what he's talking about as a sign of intellectual dishonesty. Then there's the oversexed, hypermasculine Alpha who I don't think is an internet personality type, or that the comic intended that. I think in his case he's supposed to be a sobering reminder that the Beta and Omega are really just working for his benefit, since they do the leg work of making arguments in favor of the status quo that he benefits most from. I mean, it's a little odd that the MLP-loving and fedora-wearing nerds would be teaming up with the same dumb jock archetype that bullies those archetypes.

So yes, it is a strawman but that's kind of the point of satire -- to take something to a ridiculous conclusion in the hopes that it will effectively demonstrate how ridiculous a thing is. Anyone crying "strawman" is missing the point, they're kind of assuming this comic book was intended to be a logical treatise on *insert white-male issue here* rather than a satire of those personality types. At least that's my take on it.

The fedora has nothing to do with the MRM. It's a stereotype of atheist redditors that posted pictures of themselves wearing Fedoras and describing themselves as "illuminated" and "intelectually superior" while wearing ridiculous stuff. Examples:

Spoiler: Click here to get EUPHORIC

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

You've stated the difference in your own post, the divide between genocide and widespread miscegenation is intent. Breeding with a different ethnic group is only genocide if the intent is to supplant their cultural identity with your own and destroy their heritage. The Great Migration ended the Roman cultural identity in most of Europe and supplanted the Latin-Roman identity in Italy with a new Italian identity. This was not a genocide, dozens of different tribes migrated into and settled lands abandoned by the collapsing Roman Empire, these groups were in turn absorbed into others and developed new identities. How many Goths are still around today? Vandals? Scythians?

So.... you're commenting to agree with me that the intent is important when deciding on whether something can be considered a form of Genocide? Because otherwise you are arguing against a point that I never made(i.e. that miscegenation is always a form of genocide).
If your are looking to argue with someone over whether there is in fact a "genocide" currently happening via miscegenation, you have me confused with Dansrage [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.828270.20155709]. I never declared that genocide was happening through the occurrence of miscegenation.

Interbreeding with other ethnic groups and the eventual end of cultural identity is a pretty natural part of human existence, it's only immoral when it's a result of a larger power utilizing miscegenation to control a population. Then what naturally results is alot of slavery and rape. If anyone in this thread sincerely believes that miscegenation is concerted effort to force a "white genocide" I'd suggest they're a barely closeted Neo-Nazi. Next they'll be telling me teh J00s control the media and Israel ZIONISTS were behind 9/11.

As I said, you seem to have me confused with Dansrage [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.828270.20155709]-you know, the guy that actually believes in the "Genocide & Miscegenation" idea. I never said claimed to belief in such things.

 

[Jux]

You're using charged and biased words instead of relying on facts.

Once again you give Trayvon Martin no control over whether or not he chooses to [HEADING=3]act like a violent thug[/HEADING]

Once again you give Trayvon Martin no control over whether or not he chooses to [HEADING=2]act like a violent thug[/HEADING]

Once again you give Trayvon Martin no control over whether or not he chooses to [HEADING=1]act like a violent thug[/HEADING]

Interesting choice of words there guy.

 

[KissingSunlight]

I'm going to stop reading Critical Miss. These guys are only interested in self-righteous flame bait. That's great at producing clicks, not for rational conversations on serious issues.

People who claim that they don't get what's offensive about this comic. Imagine someone drawing the same exact comic, but replaced the three white men with a feminist, African-American, and a transgendered person. You can bet that you and the comics' creators will be crying, "OMG!!! BIGOTRY!!!"

Thing is those 3 white guys are already bigots.
They're the people that fight against diversity. When someone complains about representation, sexism, and/or racism, these are the people that try to shut it down because they have it worse or something. They're condescending, rude, and basically don't want anyone to have any of their pie.

Walk into a gender issue thread, especially about games, and see the people that bring up pretty much these exact arguments and you'll generally see those people that the comic is aimed at.

I'm not saying an african american, a feminist, and a trans gendered can't be bigoted, but what sense would it make? Why the heck would they be mad about a black guy talking about the lack of black people as protagonists when one would be seemingly on his side?
More over, you're picking on the victims in your swap. The people who're under-represented, so yeah, it'd get more heat. The comic isn't even picking on white men in general, but the people that defend the sea of default white males in te manner I described..

Of course those 3 white guys don't represent all of white men. I'd like to say we all know that, but apparently that'd be a lie.

Re-read the comic again. The 3 white men are Alpha, Beta, and Omega. Basically, the writers are saying all white, heterosexual men are bigots. That is prejudice. What's even more troubling is what these guys are saying. If you disagree with a minority about anything, you are a bigot.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

I'm going to stop reading Critical Miss. These guys are only interested in self-righteous flame bait. That's great at producing clicks, not for rational conversations on serious issues.

People who claim that they don't get what's offensive about this comic. Imagine someone drawing the same exact comic, but replaced the three white men with a feminist, African-American, and a transgendered person. You can bet that you and the comics' creators will be crying, "OMG!!! BIGOTRY!!!"

Thing is those 3 white guys are already bigots.
They're the people that fight against diversity. When someone complains about representation, sexism, and/or racism, these are the people that try to shut it down because they have it worse or something. They're condescending, rude, and basically don't want anyone to have any of their pie.

Walk into a gender issue thread, especially about games, and see the people that bring up pretty much these exact arguments and you'll generally see those people that the comic is aimed at.

I'm not saying an african american, a feminist, and a trans gendered can't be bigoted, but what sense would it make? Why the heck would they be mad about a black guy talking about the lack of black people as protagonists when one would be seemingly on his side?
More over, you're picking on the victims in your swap. The people who're under-represented, so yeah, it'd get more heat. The comic isn't even picking on white men in general, but the people that defend the sea of default white males in te manner I described..

Of course those 3 white guys don't represent all of white men. I'd like to say we all know that, but apparently that'd be a lie.

Re-read the comic again. The 3 white men are Alpha, Beta, and Omega. Basically, the writers are saying all white, heterosexual men are bigots. That is prejudice. What's even more troubling is what these guys are saying. If you disagree with a minority about anything, you are a bigot.

I'm sorry, I don't see it that way coz, well, I know enough straight white males to know that there are good people among them, and that this comic doesn't paint all of the white people that way. I know better, the author knows better. I wish I could say everyone knows better, but apparently not.

But I do see a lot of the type in the comics that the author is poking fun at most every thread about wanting more diversity among protagonists, and those 3? They're just the tip of the iceberg of the people I encounter defending the status quo. There's a lot of tactics they'll use.

There -are- people out there like that, and they aren't limited to white people, but as far as gaming goes they generally do defend the white people even if the white people may not appreciate it.
There are bigots, and being bigots to people aren't going to be well met. Expecting people to tolerate bigotry is kinda silly.

P.S. Kinda funny here, but their full costumes don't reveal they're white. Thus the White Guy Defense Force isn't necessarily entrirely made of white guys. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there were female agents of the WGDF.