Who decides what's "canon"?

Recommended Videos

Fox12

AccursedT- see you space cowboy
Jun 6, 2013
4,828
0
0
This is something I've pondered a lot about over the last few years. In ancient times stories mostly belonged to societal mythologies, and no one really "owned" a story. Stories changed and Evolved over time, and their creators were often uncredited. As time went on works of art became more closely associated with their creators. It was taken for granted that the creator had the last word over what their work meant. Copyright laws came into being, and most artists owned their work. Later there was a push against this. It was felt that the audience could decide for themselves what a work meant to them, and this was just as valid as why the writer said. Nowadays, however, with IPs often belonging to massive corporations, it can be said that they get to decide what's canon. Hence why watchmen is being incorporated into the DC universe, FF7 got multiple spinoffs, dark souls got an unnecessary sequel by a different group of people, and the alien franchise has a million different contradicting pieces of lore from multiple different writers and directors. This raises an interesting question. Who decides what's canon anymore? Could Alan Moore declare before watchmen non-canon, since he created it? Does DC make that decision since they legally own it, even though they only care about making money? Do we get to decide that for ourselves? Or is the very concept of "canon" outdated in a world where canonocity can change in a moment? What do you think?
 

Secondhand Revenant

Recycle, Reduce, Redead
Legacy
Oct 29, 2014
2,566
141
68
Baator
Country
The Nine Hells
Gender
Male
I think canon just refers to whatever is official material that the creator/author/owner will use in future continuity as fact. I think that's about the only distinction really worth making. Free to believe whatever else you want and to make your own personal canon, but it's not really as relevant to know what one person considers their favorite version of a story.
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

Henchgoat Emperor
May 15, 2010
5,499
0
0
Official canon - IP owner/authors
Headcanon - you
In subjective, personal terms, headcanon > official. But objectively, official canon rules the roost. Sorry but there's no debate about that.
But in my world? Indiana Jones rode off into the sunset with Henry Sr. and Marcus Brody and that was the end of the canon. No, there were never aliens or crystal skulls... nope. didn't happen. ;)
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

New member
Aug 28, 2008
4,696
0
0
The creator of the work decides this. Also note that there can exist multiple canons and parallel universe versions and all that stuff, which is how most of the spinoff content is explained.


The issues arise when someone tries to un-cannon something that is both not theirs and that they have no good reason to un-cannon. There you will have flame wars for days because it is actually a huge problem when you do this and I'll explain why.


When you have a thing that was cannon suddenly cease to be so, that in turn imbues every other component of a work with inherent fragility. "If they changed this, what would prevent them from changing that?" is the huge Achilles Heel that dooms a work. Wanting to prevent this from occurring is why you will see staunch defenders of the cannon. You do not get to overwrite reality just like that because of your own whims and you certainly don't get to change what is other people's reality either.


Prime example is Dragonball GT, while it isn't cannon, a few components of it such as SSJ4s are retained in some games here and there because they were liked by people, but we all knew that GT wasn't cannon so when they ignored it and went the Super way, it was obvious and accepted. On the other hand, when people tried to pretend that the original Ghostbusters movie was not cannon in the new remake, shit hit the fan really fast because, well, no, it was.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
3,647
0
0
I like to think primary reference materials. Like with Star Wars. Original screenplays and original filmography > licence deals to other authors writing expanded stuff. Unless the primary content providers say otherwise, I'll defer to original documents as s direct representation of character development and worldbuilding. Mind you even this attitude of mine is whimsically applied. Especially when taking Star Wars. The notorious Lucas revisionism for instance.

So in short, no hard and fast, but that's not to suggest there isn't method in the madness.
 

Addendum_Forthcoming

Queen of the Edit
Feb 4, 2009
3,647
0
0
Ezekiel said:
Disney can't tell me Rogue One actually happened when there are significant contradictions and unrealistic fan pandering.
What's wrong with Rogue One? First Star Wars thing directly relevant to the estsblished canon, but not drawn out into a money hungry trilogy or series. Think about it like this... do you have the same complaint of the Hobbit movies? They're way worse.

At the very least Disney is making self contained stories without blatant profiteering. It would have been worse if they made an attempt to live up to established canon and thrn sold it as a three parter. Credit where credit is due. It's a million times better than the Lucas direct revisionism of the original trilogy, at least.

I for one thoroughly enjoyed the idea of a movie about the Rebellion's dirty dozen. And while this is personal taste alone, I like the idea of 'WW2 movie style with Star Wars blasters and vehicles taking the limelight' ... the blasters were always cooler to me than the lightsabers. You can instantly tell the guns apart and accurately guess who or what side they belong to, as opposed to lightsabers which unless activated it's a hell of a lot more iffy. I enjoy the vehicle of design more than simply effect of the weapon.
 

Hawki

Elite Member
Legacy
Mar 4, 2014
9,651
2,179
118
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
The IP owner. Simple as that.

I understand the appeal of headcanon/personal canon, but there's nothing more obnoxious than saying "x didn't happen, because in my universe, it didn't happen." Or at least, when you're using that as an argument to discredit info. It's basically why I'm willing to read AU/AR fanfics, but on the proviso that they label themselves as such ahead of time.
 

Neverhoodian

New member
Apr 2, 2008
3,832
0
0
Ezekiel said:
I do. There's too much profit involved for the content creators to decide. They will always expand their IPs, even if their decisions don't make any sense. So I have to decide what's true and what's not using the information presented to me.
This. I pick what I like and ignore the rest, regardless of what "the suits" say. It's all fiction anyway, so why lose sleep over it?
Dreiko said:
Also note that there can exist multiple canons and parallel universe versions and all that stuff, which is how most of the spinoff content is explained.
This is actually the approach I take for "Disney canon vs 'Legends'" in Star Wars. Each continuity is its own separate yet equally valid parallel universe, occasionally merging for certain events before breaking off again.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Well, it has been repeatedly answered, so I will comment that the real issues are when multiple people un-cooridnatedly contribute to canon. Such as say, comic books.

I dont know how the inner workings of it all is, but with so many people adding their own spin, and plots coming and going, finished or not, the canon gets muddled.

And plus there is the issue of creative control, or lack there-of. Such as when someone makes something, but is unable for whatever reason to maintain creative control, intentionally or otherwise.

Plus something being shitty doesnt make it non-canon. Jar Jar is canon to Star Wars, like it or not.
 

Aerosteam

Get out while you still can
Sep 22, 2011
4,267
0
0
Whoever owns the IP and whoever is given permission to decides what's canon and how it works.

Not that they should govern exactly what everyone sees the canon as; you can make up whatever bullshit you want to better enjoy it, that's why fancanon, fantheories and fanfiction exist.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

New member
Aug 28, 2008
4,696
0
0
Neverhoodian said:
This is actually the approach I take for "Disney canon vs 'Legends'" in Star Wars. Each continuity is its own separate yet equally valid parallel universe, occasionally merging for certain events before breaking off again.

I would see the "merged" universe as another separate universe, kinda like Kingdom Hearts continuity being its own thing entirely with chars from all sort of Disney classics and final fantasy and tron and whatnot all bunched up. Though there merely being similarities between parallel worlds is not a contradiction, two parallel universes can be nigh identical and still be different, all it takes is a single different event occurring once.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
6,760
0
0
I feel this is related to the Xenomorph/Death of Author [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.946162-About-xenomorph-reproduction-and-death-of-the-author] thread last month. There's a nuanced difference to be sure, but its similar ground.

Anyway, my answer remains similar. I'm a literalist. The author/owner of the IPs determine canon(or any 3rd parties granted permission to write extended canon). Headcanon is your personal interpretation, although headcanon should not contradict actual canon. No shipping Batman and the Question, Saelune!

But a headcanon like Link ends up with Malon in the end of the OoT storyline(assuming Link wins in Majora's Mask and returns to Hyrule to get him some) is totally fine. It fits in with Link's descendants being farmers and isn't specifically contradicted anywhere.

Although Dash Rendar is still a thing! Long live Star Wars Expanded Universe!
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
Legacy
Mar 8, 2011
8,411
16
23
Silentpony said:
I feel this is related to the Xenomorph/Death of Author [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.946162-About-xenomorph-reproduction-and-death-of-the-author] thread last month. There's a nuanced difference to be sure, but its similar ground.

Anyway, my answer remains similar. I'm a literalist. The author/owner of the IPs determine canon(or any 3rd parties granted permission to write extended canon). Headcanon is your personal interpretation, although headcanon should not contradict actual canon. No shipping Batman and the Question, Saelune!

But a headcanon like Link ends up with Malon in the end of the OoT storyline(assuming Link wins in Majora's Mask and returns to Hyrule to get him some) is totally fine. It fits in with Link's descendants being farmers and its specifically contradicted anywhere.

Although Dash Rendar is still a thing! Long live Star Wars Expanded Universe!
What did I do? o. o;;
 

Secondhand Revenant

Recycle, Reduce, Redead
Legacy
Oct 29, 2014
2,566
141
68
Baator
Country
The Nine Hells
Gender
Male
Silentpony said:
I feel this is related to the Xenomorph/Death of Author [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.946162-About-xenomorph-reproduction-and-death-of-the-author] thread last month. There's a nuanced difference to be sure, but its similar ground.

Anyway, my answer remains similar. I'm a literalist. The author/owner of the IPs determine canon(or any 3rd parties granted permission to write extended canon). Headcanon is your personal interpretation, although headcanon should not contradict actual canon. No shipping Batman and the Question, Saelune!

But a headcanon like Link ends up with Malon in the end of the OoT storyline(assuming Link wins in Majora's Mask and returns to Hyrule to get him some) is totally fine. It fits in with Link's descendants being farmers and isn't specifically contradicted anywhere.

Although Dash Rendar is still a thing! Long live Star Wars Expanded Universe!
Why restrictions on headcanon? Like does it really matter if it's weird and unlike the actual canon? I mean, it doesn't really even matter if it's just a really dumb headcanon, given it's a personal idea of it.
 

Souplex

Souplex Killsplosion Awesomegasm
Jul 29, 2008
10,312
0
0
I do.
Only my playthroughs are canon.
The Chosen Undead knowingly sacrificed themselves to the first flame for the good of all.

Shepard was a Paragon Vanguard who put moves on Liara.

Warden Aeducan was a shield-specialist warrior who got it on with Lelliana. Warden Aeducan rejected Morrigan's deal because nothing good could come from it, and Loghain redeemed himself by sacrificing himself to defeat the Archdemon. Warden Aeducan forgave Bhelen and put him on the throne for the good of Orzimar. On the surface where less important politics happen Alistair and Anora get hitched.

Dragon Age: II never happened.

The sole survivor backed the railroad.

The Courier supported the ncr, and brokered peace with all of their enemies except the Legion who he methodically punched into paste.

Any playthroughs that contradict these are wrong.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
6,760
0
0
The Decapitated Centaur said:
Silentpony said:
I feel this is related to the Xenomorph/Death of Author [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.946162-About-xenomorph-reproduction-and-death-of-the-author] thread last month. There's a nuanced difference to be sure, but its similar ground.

Anyway, my answer remains similar. I'm a literalist. The author/owner of the IPs determine canon(or any 3rd parties granted permission to write extended canon). Headcanon is your personal interpretation, although headcanon should not contradict actual canon. No shipping Batman and the Question, Saelune!

But a headcanon like Link ends up with Malon in the end of the OoT storyline(assuming Link wins in Majora's Mask and returns to Hyrule to get him some) is totally fine. It fits in with Link's descendants being farmers and isn't specifically contradicted anywhere.

Although Dash Rendar is still a thing! Long live Star Wars Expanded Universe!
Why restrictions on headcanon? Like does it really matter if it's weird and unlike the actual canon? I mean, it doesn't really even matter if it's just a really dumb headcanon, given it's a personal idea of it.
Nothing really against headcanon, I just can't stand ones that are literally contradicted. Like...in my headcanon Vegeta is really named Tiny Sally and isn't a Sayan but a Space Marine from the planet Tilda Swinton, and xer goes around flicking macaroni at reincarnated zombie Sybil Ludington.

That's bullshit and deserves to be called such, regardless of 'but mah headcanon!' status.
 

Secondhand Revenant

Recycle, Reduce, Redead
Legacy
Oct 29, 2014
2,566
141
68
Baator
Country
The Nine Hells
Gender
Male
Silentpony said:
The Decapitated Centaur said:
Silentpony said:
I feel this is related to the Xenomorph/Death of Author [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.946162-About-xenomorph-reproduction-and-death-of-the-author] thread last month. There's a nuanced difference to be sure, but its similar ground.

Anyway, my answer remains similar. I'm a literalist. The author/owner of the IPs determine canon(or any 3rd parties granted permission to write extended canon). Headcanon is your personal interpretation, although headcanon should not contradict actual canon. No shipping Batman and the Question, Saelune!

But a headcanon like Link ends up with Malon in the end of the OoT storyline(assuming Link wins in Majora's Mask and returns to Hyrule to get him some) is totally fine. It fits in with Link's descendants being farmers and isn't specifically contradicted anywhere.

Although Dash Rendar is still a thing! Long live Star Wars Expanded Universe!
Why restrictions on headcanon? Like does it really matter if it's weird and unlike the actual canon? I mean, it doesn't really even matter if it's just a really dumb headcanon, given it's a personal idea of it.
Nothing really against headcanon, I just can't stand ones that are literally contradicted. Like...in my headcanon Vegeta is really named Tiny Sally and isn't a Sayan but a Space Marine from the planet Tilda Swinton, and xer goes around flicking macaroni at reincarnated zombie Sybil Ludington.

That's bullshit and deserves to be called such, regardless of 'but mah headcanon!' status.
I mean, yeah, it's stupid, but if someone wants to say and think that I'll just roll my eyes and ignore them. It's still headcanon, just... stupid. Not like it's really restricted based on quality