Why all the flak for Deus Ex 2?

[headshotcatcher]

The question's in the title: Why all the flak for Deus Ex 2? It was a great game in my opinion, just because the predecessor was a lot better (dare I say one of the best ever) doesn't mean this great game is a blight..

It's definitely better than average games, yet it gets comments as if it's beaten only by Big Rigs in the contest for worst game ever...

Please enlighten me

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

I think it's a really fun game. I enjoy the storyline (the environments aren't all that good).

I played it before the orignal, which may have altered my view on it somewhat, but I still reply it today, and I think it's a great game.

A lot of people don't like it just because in comparison to the original, it was really mediocre (opinion), but it is a great game in itself.

 

[headshotcatcher]

I think it's a really fun game. I enjoy the storyline (the environments aren't all that good).

I played it before the orignal, which may have altered my view on it somewhat, but I still reply it today, and I think it's a great game.

A lot of people don't like it just because in comparison to the original, it was really mediocre (opinion), but it is a great game in itself.

Yeah I bet if it was called 'Ololol augmentations: Invisible War' it would probably be known as 'Wow this game is awesome! Shame about the title though..'

 

[Susurrus]

Because it was dreadful.
Universal ammo is a ridiculous thing.

But primarily the story sucked. And primarily primarily, making you make all those choices right at the beginning of the game, and then suddenly they're meaningless was a real cock move. I spent ages agonizing over a decision made on too little information, and noone cared.

 

[RadiusXd]

not an expert, but in my opinion..
deus ex 2 got a lot of flack because it was the result of a great piece of intellectual property made completely sub-mediocre, mainly by way of having everything that separated it from the standard shooter dumbed down or removed in order to poorly port the game to consoles.
such casualties include:
*the overall sandboxey feel
*the inventory, ammunition, skill and augmentation systems
*versatility of the gameplay
*and overall game size/STORYLINE. (storyline likely not consoles fault, still sucked though)

although admittedly that not all of those can be entirely attributed to the fact it's a console port, one thing sure can, the fact the levels had to load ALL THE TIME, just to get to a different level through a small courtyard, could take multiple pause screen loads.

final thought: music was sub-par if memory serves, which was a major deal for me.

small edit: emphasis on storyline added.
*added skill

 

[Alfid Zeiss]

I liked the game, it was always fun using the sniper and when you aim at an enemy, it showed this red thing on where you could shoot them
The loading screens were, like thief 3, a bit too long but its easy to get used to, so meh for that.
But what I found rather weird is that when you talk, you always have this blank face on

 

[headshotcatcher]

Because it was dreadful.
Universal ammo is a ridiculous thing.

But primarily the story sucked. And primarily primarily, making you make all those choices right at the beginning of the game, and then suddenly they're meaningless was a real cock move. I spent ages agonizing over a decision made on too little information, and noone cared.

So it was dreadful because of universal ammo? Enlightening..

Besides, making those choices meaningless was a quite smart and cool move (though it was too bad that the same 'conspiracy' was also true for those coffee bars)

And the story didn't suck, at least it seems quite on the smae level as the first game..

not an expert, but in my opinion..
deus ex 2 got a lot of flack because it was the result of a great piece of intellectual property made completely sub-mediocre, mainly by way of having everything that separated it from the standard shooter dumbed down or removed in order to poorly port the game to consoles.
such casualties include:
*the overall sandboxey feel
*the inventory, ammunition and augmentation systems
*versatility of the gameplay
*and overall game size/storyline.

although admittedly that not all of those can be entirely attributed to the fact it's a console port, one thing sure can, the fact the levels had to load ALL THE TIME, just to get to a different level through a small courtyard, could take multiple pause screen loads.

final thought: music was sub-par if memory serves, which was a major deal for me.

Why is it sub-mediocre? While the maps were definitely less open as the first game they are still very open in adventure/shooter game purposes. It also had more customisation than most shooters (though I do agree the inventory, augmentation and experience stuff of the first game /was/ missed). The versatility also seemed quite the same, though coupled with the less open maps I can see where you come from.

The music of the first game was also quite forgettable (if it were not that the game was so sublime and it's so nostalgic that the opening theme still sends shivers down my spine )

 

[Sacman]

Well Deus Ex 2 isn't a terrible game per se... it had a lot of good things going for it that put it ahead of other shooters of the time, an interesting aesthetic, tight console controls(for the console anyway it was looser than a village whore on the PC), decent integration of RPG elements, dialogue trees, and Deus Ex's high standard of level design... but it is not in anyway shape or form a worthy successor to the original...

the setting and story we're too forced and far removed, part of what made Deus Ex great was it's grounding in reality, you know you go down an alley and hop up on some boxes to break into an apartment, you know that's all stuff we've seen before and gives your actions a greater impact than say breaking into a police hangar in a skyscraper to hijack a helicopter... the same with the story...

another problem is the RPG elements... it's dumbed down... there is little more you can say about it, the original Deus Ex gave you the ability to level your character in any fashion, letting you live and work with any aug or upgrade you happen to pick with no wrong answers... from being an under water platformer to a sneaky medic... IW didn't allow for this, you could either pick from being the under water guy or being the platformer... sure it helped make the game easier but it also took away a lot of the fun of developing your own personal character...

and finally is the combat... it was... too simple and streamlined and had very little RPG elements integrated... you just pointed at something you wanted dead and held down the trigger until it stopped moving(or started having a seizure depending on how the physics engine is feeling) there was little strategy to it beyond the few upgrades that gave the gun a situational characteristic but that felt tacked on... but simple doesn't always mean easy because the stupid enemy AI and balancing... having an armored enemy that can take 3 sniper bullets to the fore head before they died does not a fun game make...

also the inventory system and general lack of item management... I liked the one in Deus Ex because it made the player really think about what he needs or doesn't, you know a rocket launcher takes up the space of a rocket launcher, but in IW it's the same size as a candy bar so you can just pick up a whole bunch of guns and stack 20 medkits for later destroying the balance... though I'm honestly exaggerating a bit it worked pretty ok mostly because you didn't have a monumental amount of space... but it still bothered me for some reason...

I said before that the level design was good... well it is for the most part but sometimes it just becomes way too linear, especially near then end... now there's nothing wrong with linearity but there is a problem with it in this game... it sometimes makes properly stealthing your way through a level damn near impossible and forcing you into combat that feels like a punishment, the ending being particularly bad when they're rolling out 6 over powered armored enemies that will destroy you because the only path through the level is directly through their legs and you've been like a neglectful parent to you're guns because you wanted to be the stealth guy...<.<

Finally, Universal Ammo is an idiotic idea...<.<

Also I won't be complaining about the story since, come on, what did they have to work with... Deus Ex had 4 completely different endings and they tried they're best without picking a single one...<.<

 

[Imbechile]

The question's in the title: Why all the flak for Deus Ex 2? It was a great game in my opinion, just because the predecessor was a lot better (dare I say one of the best ever) doesn't mean this great game is a blight..

It's definitely better than average games, yet it gets comments as if it's beaten only by Big Rigs in the contest for worst game ever...

Please enlighten me

Deus ex 2 and Thief Deadly shadows get a lot of undeserved hate because their predecesors are one of the best games ever and they are "just good". People expected them to top the originals yet they dumbed down the gameplay. I am a HUGE DX1 fan and I was disappointed with DX2 but over the years I've come to accept DX2 for what it is, not what it's predecesor was. Some people still can't :-(

 

[Susurrus]

Yes. Universal ammo meant that I was unwilling to use any big weapons for fear of running out of ammo. It also meant in one of the final sequences, where you have to kill those damn armoured things with the O-LOOK-WE'RE-UNKILLABLE-EXCEPT-FOR-THIS-ONE-SPOT-ON-OUR-BACKS-PLEASE-DON'T-SHOOT-IT I didn't have enough ammunition for the requisite 3 shots per enemy from the sniper rifle, making the thing damn near impossible. It was a real detriment on my play-through.

It wasn't smart and cool. If you had had more information then that's one thing - making an informed choice, only to be screwed over because it didn't matter - that's a nice twist. Making the player make a choice on little information, but having it not matter because it's not really a choice - that smacks of being lazy storytelling - oh here's your obligatory choice, but it makes no difference because THIS is what we're gonna make you do. Don't give me a faint illusion of choice if it isn't one, and was on reflection never a proper choice in the first place. The illusion also collapsed way too quickly.

 

[Zhukov]

I gave it two chances. Both times it failed to hold my interest.

The fact that it was a sequel to a game that I found good enough to play through three times was just the icing on the cake.

Lastly, I don't usually go for the whole PC-games-get-dumbed-down-for-consoles rant. But Invisible War is pretty much the ultimate example of... well, of a PC game being dumbed down for consoles.

 

[Smooth Operator]

From what I remember it was mediocre on all it's implementations the only good parts were the Deus Ex ideas they tried to put together, it may have been a 6/10 had there been nothing better, but when there is a solid 9/10 older game doing all of it alot better, then it's just like someone took a dump on your chest.

Or to put is otherwise, after a month in the desert a warm beer will the godliest fluid you have ever tasted in your lifetime, if you get the same drink in a restaurant it will taste like fresh piss.

And when you go sofar backwards with a new game you deserve all the flak there is.

 

[RadiusXd]

though I do agree the inventory, augmentation and experience stuff of the first game /was/ missed). The versatility also seemed quite the same, though coupled with the less open maps I can see where you come from.

The music of the first game was also quite forgettable (if it were not that the game was so sublime and it's so nostalgic that the opening theme still sends shivers down my spine )

The rpg elements of the game are most of what separated it from the pack, when they basically gave all the deus ex parts of deus ex the middle finger, they might as well have just given it a different name.

Which is not to say it would have been a good game, as the universal ammo was really just plain awful, and the levels loading an unreasonably high frequency is not something i enjoy in any game. i mean, the first game managed HUGE seeming areas that you could explore and such.
All without a single load screen till you got on a chopper or a subway cart or something else to take you to the next fun packed area.

also, the music from the first game was done superbly, cannot remember the invisble wars soundtrack at all, even when jogging my head with youtube.

EDIT: come to think of it, history does not bode well for Crysis 2 here. Hope Crytek pulls through.

 

[Daedalus1942]

The question's in the title: Why all the flak for Deus Ex 2? It was a great game in my opinion, just because the predecessor was a lot better (dare I say one of the best ever) doesn't mean this great game is a blight..

It's definitely better than average games, yet it gets comments as if it's beaten only by Big Rigs in the contest for worst game ever...

Please enlighten me

I've been stating your opinion for years now.
I think everyone, including people who've never played the game just jumped on the bandwagon and decided to hate it for no apparent reason.
-Tabs<3-

 

[SckizoBoy]

I thought it was OK... could've reckoned it was good if I hadn't played (and subsequently replayed... repeatedly) the first one.

However, the story was passable, but didn't hold me as well as the first (well what could, after that?), the universal ammo thingy was convenient, but ultimately annoying, the augs were forgettable and the inventory system was infuriating. Gameplay was still quite engrossing despite this.

Just my two cents' worth.

 

[Continuity]

The question's in the title: Why all the flak for Deus Ex 2? It was a great game in my opinion, just because the predecessor was a lot better (dare I say one of the best ever) doesn't mean this great game is a blight..

It's definitely better than average games, yet it gets comments as if it's beaten only by Big Rigs in the contest for worst game ever...

Please enlighten me

I enjoyed it, but that doesn't change the fact that it was clearly half baked, and as a sequel to such a great game thats bound to be a massive let down.

 

[scnj]

The universal ammo system was bullshit, there were a lot less choices within the missions themselves, and the choices within the story were meaningless, because they led to playing the same missions anyway.

 

[oplinger]

I liked the game. I don't think it deserves all the hate, but it does deserve some.

My main problem was right at the end, you could basically pick your ending without a care in the world for what you've done. That sort of ruins it...granted I was like 14 when I played it...I doubt I really remember it very much to form an opinion now..