Why all the hate on FFVII?

[ShatterPalm]

If there's one thing I've learned over the last couple months, it's that people don't seem to like FFVII as much as the game's massive popularity might suggest. Across the internet on places like FaceBook, deviantART, Youtube, Newgrounds, 4chan, even rare sites like The Choas Theatre, people just flat out hate the game. Naturally, as a guy that actually likes the game, I get comfused and ask why. Politely, of course. The Answer is always the same: "Because Cloud's emo and Sephiroth is a mama's boy."

Okay, before I start ranting here, I suggest you take a minute and ask yourself:
What do I think of the game?

Please also note that while I like FFVII, I don't exactly think it's the best game under the Final Fantasy Label. The winner of that award goes to eiterh FFVI or Crystal Chronicles. Can't decide which. So no spam saying I'm a fanboy, alright?

Okay, rant starts here. *Ahem*
1st point: NO. HE. ISN'T.
Cloud is not in the slightest bit emo, angsty, or even remotely depressed. There are a lot of things I would use to describe Cloud, and emo sure as HELL isn't one of them. Stoic, bored, uninterested, serious, angry, confused, proud, those are all words I'd use to describe Cloud. Not only that, he has a sense of humor. The number of things that you're given the option to have him say or do throughout the game proves that. Playing Tifa's piano in the memory sequence near the begining, Smart Mouthing Barret by saying he looks like a teddy bear wearing a marshmallow while he's in the sailor's suit, things like that. There is litterally one spot in the game that I'd call him depressed or sad: right after Aeris dies.

Now Sephiroth is, of course, a harder goal to defend, but face it folks: he's a pretty good villain. He has the plan, motive, means, and mindset to make the plan happen. He's not a mama's boy for this reason: he's attempting to destroy the world BECAUSE of Jenova, not for her. He discovers the truth in his past, goes insane, finds what remains of Jenova, takes it, then goes off to plot. Besides, he's also one of the only Villains I've seen who's constantly on the front lines, always doing everything he wants done himself. There isn't anything that he ever needs help with. He just kicks everyone's butt and gets back on his way.

Okay mortals, state your possitions on the game and clarify them. Feel free to say that you just don't like the game, because quite frankly that's your opinion. But if you disagree with my rant, prove it. Either one of them. I expect thurough, well thought out reason for why you think Cloud cuts his wrists and Sephiroth's a mama's boy. Go ahead.

 

[GiantRaven]

It's cool to hate things that are popular.

 

[FalloutJack]

It's cool to hate things that are popular.

Hating things just to be popular has never been popular. If you want to hate something, hate it for a reason.

I don't hate Final Fantasy 7. It was my introduction to the series and Square's introduction into the Playstation era. I enjoyed the plot, the characters were mostly decent, and I definitely got replay value out of it.

I DO hate Final Fantasy 8, which I have rants on that warrant spoiler tabs with the caption "WARNING: WALL OF TEXT INSIDE". I have reasons to hate things, not because it's the 'in' thing.

 

[Katana314]

I wholeheartedly agree. The unfortunate thing is, while the game definitely deserves praise, there are some idiotic fanboys that treat it like a religion. It's obviously not worth all that, and thus suffers Hype Backlash for a game that is undeniably pretty damn good - it just can't possibly live up to all people say about it. This has happened for FFVII, Call of Duty, Halo, and to a degree Half-Life.

Unfortunately, the later storylines depict Cloud much more as an emo person because they look at the field of facial motion (in which you use more than just a static, unchanging facial expression for hours of animation) and say "NAAAAAAAH." I worry that they went for way too much realism in FFVII's extended universe, and then no one was really identifiable in the way that a simple smiley face is. Then, all the "Cloud is emo" talk actually became justified.

The one thing I WOULD say about FFVII is that Sephiroth never seemed like a believable villain. There was just this one point at which he went through a bizarre internal thread of logic that churned out "The world needs to be destroyed for Jenova, my mother" and none of it was identifiable or even sympathetic.

 

[GiantRaven]

Hating things just to be popular has never been popular. If you want to hate something, hate it for a reason.

Correction; if you want to hate something, hate it for a good reason.

 

[Nylis]

Because whenever anything becomes popular, whether it be a game, movie, or whatever, it's going to attract a lot of hate. Some people hate the game for valid reasons, some people hate it because others like it more than their favorite game and they can't understand why, and others hate it just because it's popular and this is their way of expressing their individuality.

 

[DirgeNovak]

It's not "hate". It's "not understanding why it's so fucking popular even though half the other FFs are way better". There's a difference.

For me it's the translation. In a game as dialogue-heavy as this, it's inexcusable to have such a shoddy translation. And the 1997 argument doesn't work with me.

 

[FalloutJack]

Hating things just to be popular has never been popular. If you want to hate something, hate it for a reason.

Correction; if you want to hate something, hate it for a good reason.

Yeah, I'll accept that.

 

[ShatterPalm]

The one thing I WOULD say about FFVII is that Sephiroth never seemed like a believable villain. There was just this one point at which he went through a bizarre internal thread of logic that churned out "The world needs to be destroyed for Jenova, my mother" and none of it was identifiable or even sympathetic.

Yeah, I'll concede that. He was never believeable as a villain, the reason being is that he's too much of a badass. They should have saved him as a protagonist for another game. But you'll note I said he was only a good villain by my stanards, not a great one. The best villains to me are Hao Asakura from Shaman King, Voldemort from HP, Kefka Palazzo from FFVI, and the main bad guy from Immortal Rain.

 

[ShatterPalm]

It's not "hate". It's "not understanding why it's so fucking popular even though half the other FFs are way better". There's a difference.

For me it's the translation. In a game as dialogue-heavy as this, it's inexcusable to have such a shoddy translation. And the 1997 argument doesn't work with me.

true, but most of the other FF's kinda sucked too.... I STILL despise FFIII. Truth be told, I'm more of a Fire Emblem Fanboy anways.

 

[JimmyC99]

Cloud does have issues, hes been a SOLDIER for a while seen some very bad things, but he does resolve these at the end of 7, and hes rightly depressed when Aries dies he cared for her we all did, DAM YOU SQUARE. generally with all but 2 FF games i've played i've liked all of them even 8. the only 2 i don't like were X-2 and XII, X-2 was appalling IMO, sure it had its good parts the the dressphere wasn't one of them. people hate XIII but i found it my favorite, ALL FF's have quirky clothing and characters, all of which i like, except hope, but i don't quite no why i hate him so passionately. but back to 7 the plot is of course saving the world as it allways should be, from Seph and the evils of companies government ect. and sooo on

this was a message from an uninformed fool who plays games. oh and TYPO.

 

[twistedheat15]

It's cool to hate things that are popular.

I second this, ppl hear what others say, and throw it around even if they've never played it just to feel different.

 

[ComicsAreWeird]

I dont get the hate either. It´s an amazing game. I also enjoy FF VIII, but there seems to be a lot of people hating on that too. But people are entitled to their opinions.I´ll respect them.

The only FF game that i dislike is FF X-2, because it destroyed what i liked on the previous game.It basically said "fuck you" to Yuna´s character development in the first game and turned her into a happy-go-lucky popstar wannabe. I havent played XIII yet...people seem to be hating that one too, but i cant tell if it´s justified until i play it.

 

[Kagim]

I actually really liked seven for a long time.

However after playing six, five, nine and ten. It fell down the list.

However i still liked it. Then.... Then I came of age and started talking to other people about games.

Christ... Forums i have had people spend essays screaming at me for it being pretty much at the bottom of my list. I have had people harass me in game stores when mentioning ten and six are my favorites.

It's simply the sheer zealotry associated with it that has caused me to stop mentioning it at all. I get less shit for saying i hate it in threads then if i say i just don't like it as much as ten or six.

If i say i hate it at best people ignore me at worst i just get called ignorant or a fag.

If i mention, hey, i just think Ten or six is better... dear god... bring in the meandering lists of why seven is sooooo much better then either of them.

 

[Xander_VJ]

I don't think people really hate FF VII. It's more like they hate what FF VII has BECOME.

As you have said, Cloud is not indeed an emo in the original game. Not by a long shot.

But sadly, he definitely is in his more recent incarnations, specially "Advent Children". Yes, I know they tried to justify it in the "Complete" version by saying that one of the Geostigma symptoms were depression, but by then the damage was already done. And HOW!

Worst than that, Cloud doesn't angst for things that happen in the movie, but for things that happened in the game. Things that he was supposed to be over by the end of the game. Hell, even Aerith herself scolds Cloud for it from the freaking Life Stream!

Now let's remember when AC came out: 2005, in other words, 8-9 years after the release of the game, depending on in which region you live. By then, most people had not been playing the game for a really long time, which means their memories of the game had at least started to wear down.

Cloud's new, yet similar persona was like a cancer in those memories. It started sickening them, and then it started to grow, overshadowing everything that was good once.

To make things only worse, Cloud's characterization in the spin-offs tended to be closer to his AC persona than to the original. And everything went downhill from there. The fact that most of the script writers from the original game had left Square Enix didn't help either.

The same could be said about the rest of the characters, though in a sightly different way: their characterization was oversimplified, resulting in pure caricaturization.

Tifa, once a perfect example of a strong willed yet kind and beautiful female character, was reduced to an poorly-written anime female lead stereotype.

Barret, once a compelling supporting character, was transformed into a parody of himself.

Vincent, once a well crafted character with a tragic back story, reduced to a boring an uninteresting stoic wannabe.

And so on, and so on.

The annoying new characters didn't help either (Genesis, I'm looking at you).

About Sephiroth, I never had any problems with his implied Oedipus-alien complex. Norman Bates was a mama's boy as well, and that didn't stop him from being one hell of a compelling villain. Same for Sephiroth. The fact that he is a total badass also helps.

But again, in the recent incarnations, he is reduced to his mommy issues and little more. And hatedom ensues.


So there you have it.

There are other factors, like the Japanese industry loss of momentum, the spreading JRPG hatedom in the West (specially in the US, where it's starting to reach ridiculous levels, IMO), memetic mutations, reactionary hate towards the original game zealot defenders (another cancer-like phenomenom), etc., but the core of the problem is majorly there, I think.

The recent spin-offs, with their poorly written scripts, are tainting the memories people have of the game, making them believe that the original had thing that it actually didn't.

It's not something new. It has happened countless times before in other medium, and it's not the only case in video games either, I think. But it sure is one of the saddest cases.

 

[Safaia]

After watching someone play VIII for a few hours I went home and played VII because I thought it was the same game *I was 12 I didn't know my roman numerals* and that was my introduction to the series. Because of that it'll always have a special place in my heart simply because it was my introduction to a genre that I play a ton of now.

I've never had someone jump all over me about saying that VII is better than all to be honest. IV is probably my all time favorite followed closely by XI but that's not including the fact that I adore Skies of Arcadia and Chrono Trigger/Cross. Maybe it's just the forums I go on that don't have people willing to write essays to try and disprove someones opinion.

 

[Chibz]

I hate final fantasy 7 more due to being vastly inferior to the previous FF titles, and because after that Square took FF in the altogether wrong direction.

I'm also frustrated that people "like" the game for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Ninjamedic]

Level 4 Limit Snip

I can understand the hate for the Spin-offs, but what annoys me is the people who claim that the series went south at 7 immediately, rather than criticizing the franchise milking.

 

[Ninjamedic]

I hate final fantasy 7 more due to being vastly inferior to the previous FF titles, and because after that Square took FF in the altogether wrong direction.

I'm also frustrated that people "like" the game for all the wrong reasons.

Could I be so rude as to ask for a explanation of your frustration? (or a link to said explanation).