Why all the hate on the Matrix Sequels?

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BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Futurenerd said:
Seriously. Let me ask you a question. Say that you had never seen The Matrix. Now, imagine that I came over to your house and showed you The Matrix Reloaded. Sure it wouldn't make any sense at all, but could you honestly say that otherwise it wouldn't be a good movie? It always pisses me off whenever I see someone hate on the Matrix trilogy because the sequels sucked. In my opinion, even though the Matrix sequels weren't better than the first, they were still wonderful movies in their own right, just not shining in comparison to the first. Can someone give me any other reason besides disappointment for hating the Matrix Sequels? I just don't really get it...
Calling them "sequels" is inaccurate as the two Matrix sequels are really just two parts of one long film (much like Kill Bill).

They're not awful, they just suck compared to the first one. I wouldn't say they were "wonderful", the only thing truly excellent about them is the special effects. Bad pacing, ridiculous padding scenes (dance scene, anyone? EDIT: omg I so got ninja'ed), and a fairly generic plot (hero must save the world before the big alien thing destroys everyone) that moves along traditional, completely predictable Hollywood lines all conspire to make the sequel(s) a fairly average affair. If they were released without the first one, it would have barely made a splash for anyone involved, and would probably have lost money too. They aren't woeful, just kinda average.
 

Funkiest Monkey

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Futurenerd said:
Ok. Ok. Can we stop talking about how I didn't want that guy to tell me about lame movie trilogies? I only said that because I'm asking your opinion about the Matrix Trilogy, not about other movies. If you want to talk about PotC that's fine.
I did give you my opinion on the Matrix films. I'm also free to discuss other topics that fall in the same sort of category - "Trilogies That Suck.", I suppose.

Want to know another shitty trilogy? The Star Wars Prequels.
 

CK76

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Expectations. The first Matrix gave a tiny glimpse into something great. The sequels reality was a big let down, I actually cared less about about Zion and its people after seeing it. Maybe that is unfair, but all of my favorite moments or characters came from the first film. Also the action went from suspense to empty watching computer people fight when technology is still not ready for it.
 

Cherry Cola

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Jun 26, 2009
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Futurenerd said:
Hubilub said:
Nope, I'm going with complete and utter shit on revolutions.

Reloaded was only ok. It had some good action, but sometimes the CG felt way too cheap, and I didn't care much for the story.

Now revolutions sucked ass. It's not even slightly good. It's complete and utter shite and I hate it.

The entire trilogy would have been better off if it simply was just the Matrix and nothing else.
Now see this is what I'm talking about. WHY? Explain the hate to me!
Here's the thing: The first one ended with the prophecy fulfilled. Neo died instead of Morpheus, and became the one because of it.

Now if they wanted to make a sequel, they had to completely ignore the whole resolving it in the first and just roll with it.

The second one still had mysterious cyber-babble and an interesting premise, especially that of the architect. However, it ended with tons of cliffhangers, and so nothing is resolved, meaning that if the third one can't pull it off, reloaded would fall with it.

And fall it did.

Revolutions replaced everything that was interesting about the Matrix (namely, the fucking Matrix), and had a majority of the movie be cliché fighting against robots in real life. Everything that had been good about the franchise was gone. It was now an incredibly generic action flick with massive plot holes and unresolved storylines from reloaded. And of course, to top of the shit, the much better, less word by word interpretation of the prophecy from the first film was replaced by Neo actually dying. Not only does this make no sense, as this means Neo never had to chose between him and Morpheus since neither was destined to die at that point, but it was so shoe-horned in.

And don't even get me started on how incredibly corny and horribly acted Trinity's death is, or how Laurence Fishburn got maybe 1 line in the entire movie.

For a better explanation on why it sucks, you can feel free to check out this
 

Loonerinoes

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Apr 9, 2009
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The plot points actually make perfect sense, but the trick is that they require a mind that's more open to different interpretations and possibilities. And since most western culture wants everything to be specifically and exactingly defined heh...they kind of probably shouldn't have hyped the series as they did while introducing concepts that are a fair bit looser than advertised.

But having said that I would say this to be honest. Matrix original - good and showing a lot of promise. Matrix Reloaded - you know what? SCREW all the haters: The best of the whole series and the ones who hated the frenchman or the Architect can really go suck on a doorknob if they want to go all 'Oh no! This is just stereotypical pretentiousness, it doesn't make any sense at all to my superior intellect LALALALALALALA!' Matrix Revolutions...okay...the worst of the trilogy, but having said that it has good moments in it too that I really liked. Again, a lot of the plot points are being debunked by all the overintellectual twats and tbh...let them have their fun if they need to in order to feel good about themselves. As for me, I liked how it ended, I liked a fair bit of the plot points and even though some of the scenes really could've been tightened up...it ended it favourably.

To be honest the Matrix trilogy is very much like Pirates of the Carribean trilogy for me. 1st movie great, with a lot of potential on the horizon. 2nd movie simply ace, screwing your brain around on a regular basis and if you let go of your intellectual asshat ego to just the tiniest degree, you can have tonnes of fun. 3rd movie...eh...but at least it wrapped it all up properly.

IMHO people should stop bitching about how the sequels sucked for the Matrix. It's not like the Whachowskis decided to pull a Hideo Kojima after the trilogy - they ended it and that was that. And really for that alone I could consider it definately worth anyone's time in the end.
 

Cherry Cola

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Jun 26, 2009
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Funkiest Monkey said:
Hubilub said:
Laurence Fishburn got maybe 1 line in the entire movie.
Yeah, that pissed me off. I love that guy.

Also, props on giving a shout-out to TheSpoonyExperiment.
He is the man when it comes to being snarky.
 

WiccaVamp

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Jun 26, 2009
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I think I'm probably the only one here who didnt like the first one and liked the third, they are never gonna be favorites buti just dont like keanu;s acting personally and the third one in my opinion had more of a story to it albeit still full of plot holes.
 

Sevre

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Apr 6, 2009
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Spinozaad said:
The movies aren't bad, the 'philosophy' is just so damn awful. It confuses the audience, frustrates -by lack of a better word- intellectuals and horrifies philosophy majors.

Confusion and fury tend to influence one's opinion.
Are you serious? If you're talking about the Red Pill/Blue Pill thought experiment it's quite simple. It's just a redress of the Malicious Demon thought experiment done hundreds of years ago by Descartes.
 

WiccaVamp

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Jun 26, 2009
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esperandote said:
People can relate to Neo on the first, the can't on the sequels. That's my guess. I have wondered that too.

Funkiest Monkey said:
EDIT: Wanna see some bad sequels? Go watch Pirates Of The Caribbean 2 & 3. One was an excellent film, but the other two were kinda stupid and boring.
Did you watch them on inverse order? I think exactly the opposite. On the sequels there was the Kraken, Davy Jones, great fights, great CGI's, more comedy, more fantasy. I can't even recall a good moment on the first.
I'm half and half; there were parts i loved in the third but charecter devolpment made no sense, I mean Orlando Bloom seemed bi polar (due to script)Elizabeth was so weird....jack was still good made it for me.I liked them but they did get progressively more plot holeish.
 

II2

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Mar 13, 2010
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To sum it all up in a single sentance:


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Too much money and hype driving a good idea into a creative glass ceiling.

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Dags90

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Oct 27, 2009
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Sevre90210 said:
Are you serious? If you're talking about the Red Pill/Blue Pill thought experiment it's quite simple. It's just a redress of the Malicious Demon thought experiment done hundreds of years ago by Descartes.
I think his use of the word "overintellectual" is pretty telling. He's basically saying that you "just have to turn your brain off" to enjoy the sequels. Those aren't plot holes, that scene isn't ambiguous or poorly executed, those are opportunities for you to interpret the story!
 

Sevre

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Apr 6, 2009
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Dags90 said:
Sevre90210 said:
Are you serious? If you're talking about the Red Pill/Blue Pill thought experiment it's quite simple. It's just a redress of the Malicious Demon thought experiment done hundreds of years ago by Descartes.
I think his use of the word "overintellectual" is pretty telling. He's basically saying that you "just have to turn your brain off" to enjoy the sequels. Those aren't plot holes, that scene isn't ambiguous or poorly executed, those are opportunities for you to interpret the story!
Ah yes I misread his comment. I do agree with him though, the sequels tried too hard, never try, it has the possibility of failing.
 

JaymesFogarty

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Aug 19, 2009
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Funkiest Monkey said:
Futurenerd said:
Ok. Ok. Can we stop talking about how I didn't want that guy to tell me about lame movie trilogies? I only said that because I'm asking your opinion about the Matrix Trilogy, not about other movies. If you want to talk about PotC that's fine.
I did give you my opinion on the Matrix films. I'm also free to discuss other topics that fall in the same sort of category - "Trilogies That Suck.", I suppose.

Want to know another shitty trilogy? The Star Wars Prequels.
I'll raise you by 10 chips.
The Star Wars
On topic, I never hated the matrix sequels. The first matrix was brilliant, the second was great, and the third was also great. I loved the strength of the Wachoski(?) Brothers, in that they could
kill the main character.
 

Bob_F_It

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May 7, 2008
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What the first film did in addition that the other two didn't is that the concept of what was going on the film could actually be happening (how can you prove you're not in a Matrix?)
There weren't any mind-screwing revelation/suggestions-of-your-existance in the other two; that card had already been played, so the second two films can't stand out for that.

The other more obvious thing that made The Matrix stand out was fighting. In the first film Neo wasn't such a sure powerhouse, so in the later scenes of peril, you couldn't be entirely sure if he'd make it. Come Reloaded, confrontations step up a gear with antagonists that are cheating, although you easily foresee Neo walking away fine, which is why you have to seperate the group for the epic freeway chase. Then when we get to fighting in Revolutions...

Actually, most of my gripe is with Revolutions. It was as much of a continuation in the same vain that Command & Conquer 4 continuing C&C. The first part of its title "The Matrix", was left out a lot. They jacked in, had a bust up, and then that was all that happened with the titular reality until the the end. The rest of the film just centres on Zion, which I could sum up as follows:

Zion gears up for a fight with a crapload of sentinals.
Neo buggers off to the machine city while the rest head back home to help out.
Back in Zion: DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA
Redpills on homecoming get in a hovercraft chase.
Back in Zion: DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA
Neo is blinded by smith and gets his electricity vision.
Back in Zion: DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA hovercraft only just manages to crash the party and zaps everything.
Trinity dies, Neo sacrifices himself and brokers a treaty.

Reloaded was absolutly fine up until those two trucks crashed, where the CGI of the said crash was a tad pants, and then we have to put up with the Architect. For a cherry on the top, Neo then kills sentinels with his mind.
The only entertaining part of Revolutions was busting Neo out of that train station. If you moved that half-hour to the end of Reloaded, Revolutions then becomes pure crap.
 

Icehearted

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Jul 14, 2009
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I actually liked the 2nd one :/

Agent Smith was cool, Persephone was hot, the action played out pretty well. The chase was pretty exciting and I thought some of the new characters were pretty intriguing. My only gripe might be that they really overused the CG Neo and it wasn't terribly convincing.
 

Spinozaad

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Jun 16, 2008
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Sevre90210 said:
Spinozaad said:
The movies aren't bad, the 'philosophy' is just so damn awful. It confuses the audience, frustrates -by lack of a better word- intellectuals and horrifies philosophy majors.

Confusion and fury tend to influence one's opinion.
Are you serious? If you're talking about the Red Pill/Blue Pill thought experiment it's quite simple. It's just a redress of the Malicious Demon thought experiment done hundreds of years ago by Descartes.
No. I can live with the red pill/blue pill. Almost every bit of dialogue involving Smith and Neo in the sequels, however...
 

Vrach

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Jun 17, 2010
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Futurenerd said:
Seriously. Let me ask you a question. Say that you had never seen The Matrix. Now, imagine that I came over to your house and showed you The Matrix Reloaded. Sure it wouldn't make any sense at all, but could you honestly say that otherwise it wouldn't be a good movie? It always pisses me off whenever I see someone hate on the Matrix trilogy because the sequels sucked. In my opinion, even though the Matrix sequels weren't better than the first, they were still wonderful movies in their own right, just not shining in comparison to the first. Can someone give me any other reason besides disappointment for hating the Matrix Sequels? I just don't really get it...
First off, you can't look at the sequels of a trilogy that are supposed to tell a story together and then ignore it's a part of a trilogy. If it was a game, sure, gameplay's fun, you can say the story works but not as a sequel and get on with it but this is a movie and the movies huge part is their story.

Now, that aside, Matrix Revolutions is a pile of bollox. The story's not interesting, the combat is space invaders and the "climactic" fight at the end is long and boring, reminiscent of Michael Bay in South Park going "..and then an 18 wheeler spins out of control and *boom* *craaash*..." composed solely of cliched moves that... how to explain it. Ok, the normal fighting scene might end with one of the moves they're using. They're basically using those "finishers" throughout the whole fight. Sorry, but it doesn't work.

On Matrix Reloaded however, I personally like it. It's not as strong in the story as the first one, but the action makes up for that and it's still more than enough as a whole to call it well done and enjoyable.
 

Samurai Goomba

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Oct 7, 2008
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Reloaded is a big, loud, stupid mess. It's kind of fun because the action gets so over the top, and it has a couple really cool moments and characters. Overall it's a half-good movie, but half of it is bad, too. Like... How stupid it is. And how at this point the story of the Matrix is starting to fall apart.

Revolutions is a piece of crap. There are some just absolutely moronic scenes with Super Saiyan fighting in the air, it focuses on Zion and becomes a horrible Michael Bay Transformers movie (predating those films, but it's still awful) with the crappy mechs fighting robots. It's almost like George Lucas wrote that part.

"Let's see, who do we care least about?"
"Um, how about the mechs and disposable Zion dwellers we haven't gotten to know and generally don't like?"
"Brilliant! Say, this gives me an idea for Star Wars. What if... Now get this... What if, instead of robots fighting HUMANS, robots were fighting CLONES! They're like humans, but we care even LESS what happens to them!"
"Brilliant sir, may I commence with licking your boot?"
"You may."

The only scene I can remotely tolerate from that film is the fight on the ship between Neo, Trinity and Smith. Why? Because there's some actual tension and consequence. At this point nothing in The Matrix holds much threat for Neo (one notable exception, but you can't be "defeated" if it's destiny), but fighting outside of it removes his Jesus-like martial arts prowess and stupid invulnerability. So yeah, the one good scene.

All this is my opinion, obviously. I'm not going to argue opinion to opinion with somebody. If you thought the movie was good, fine, but I would suggest that many people, even viewing the films separately, would say they suck. Most folks I talk to who have seen the Matrix movies think the second and third ones suck (with good reason).

Edit: Oh, forgot about the train station. So, two scenes I thought were okay in Revolutions. But let us not forget those scenes are tiny compared to the entirety of the film.