Why all the hate on the Matrix Sequels?
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Reloaded may not have been as good as The Matrix but it still gave us plenty to think about, and I loved the Merovingian and the Architect. They were so well written and so well played that it almost made up for the rest of the movie. My friends and I discussed and opined for weeks over what would happen in the third movie. We thought we had it all figured out, too- we had an internally consistent explanation which was very logical.
And then Revolutions RUINED EVERYTHING. Like many people we thought the "Zion" world was another shell of the simulation, another Matrix. It was the only way to explain several events in the first two movies (Tank's survival and rescue of the others, the rusted catwalk killing the team which was supposed to take over the power plant, Neo's newfound power outside of the Matrix) which were required in order for the "it's all part of the plan" explanation to make any sense.
Turns out the W-ski brothers were explaining it all with mystical bullshit.
I realize the ultimately unsatisfactory conclusion of the Matrix-within-a-Matrix explanation (how do you know that you've ever really escaped it?) but at least it was internally consistent and didn't require multiple deus ex machinas to hold together.
And then Revolutions RUINED EVERYTHING. Like many people we thought the "Zion" world was another shell of the simulation, another Matrix. It was the only way to explain several events in the first two movies (Tank's survival and rescue of the others, the rusted catwalk killing the team which was supposed to take over the power plant, Neo's newfound power outside of the Matrix) which were required in order for the "it's all part of the plan" explanation to make any sense.
Turns out the W-ski brothers were explaining it all with mystical bullshit.
I realize the ultimately unsatisfactory conclusion of the Matrix-within-a-Matrix explanation (how do you know that you've ever really escaped it?) but at least it was internally consistent and didn't require multiple deus ex machinas to hold together.
esperandote said:
I have to agree with this. Pirates 3 is mah favorite of the trilogy, and honestly the second one is almost as good. I almost couldn't remember anything of the first movie after that. Plus, the music in the 2nd and 3rd are better, pupil of Hans Zimmer (Klaus Badelt) isn't as good as Hans Zimmer himself.
"This concept of 'wuv' confuses and INFURIATES Lur, of the Planet Omicron Persei 8!"Spinozaad said:
Seriously, though- we saw the first and saw something unique, amazing, and cool. We formed our opinions of the director's talents from that first impression. We got two mediocre pieces after... and we were harsh. Maybe a little too much so, but not without reason.
i loved reloaded. i think i went to see it twice (and when you had no way of earning money that's very hard to do) because the chasing scene just blew my mind. plus, i like seeing silver/white rastas AND the fight scene with the smiths just seemed eternal (and tho you could tell it was cgi'd) it rocked hard.
The third one was pretty... WTF? he DIES? SHE dies? what in the hell? I still kinda liked it. But not hate it. And... i'd watch this trilogy over the lord of the rings OR pirates...
that is all
The third one was pretty... WTF? he DIES? SHE dies? what in the hell? I still kinda liked it. But not hate it. And... i'd watch this trilogy over the lord of the rings OR pirates...
that is all
Personally, my problem was that the first matrix addressed some (albeit basic) philosophical issues in a way that appeals to both people seeing the movie for the intellectual discourse and those seeing it for the action. The second two movies dropped all the philosophical concepts and just tried to be cool for coolness sake. Sure, they did a decent job at that, but it simply doesn't stand up to the original, when the ideas are fresh and interesting.
Also, and this is just personal preference, but I like a semi-open ending like the first had. The idea that he's realized his full potential and will now go out and save the world was enough for me. It was the journey, that's what the first one was all about, the sequels were just about what could be cool if you were inside a computer. Oh, and that crazy real-world shit.
Actually, I have to be honest, it's been so long since I've seen them that I don't really remember them that clearly (the sequels that is), but I've never really had the desire to, so ah well.
Also, and this is just personal preference, but I like a semi-open ending like the first had. The idea that he's realized his full potential and will now go out and save the world was enough for me. It was the journey, that's what the first one was all about, the sequels were just about what could be cool if you were inside a computer. Oh, and that crazy real-world shit.
Actually, I have to be honest, it's been so long since I've seen them that I don't really remember them that clearly (the sequels that is), but I've never really had the desire to, so ah well.
I don't hate the sequels, but the stories got stupid. The first one had a really good story but the others killed this with the whole oricle/old man (forgot his name but he is like the father of the matrix or something) thing. The last film Hardly had any action apart from the last 20 minutes or so, the rest of it was just a crappy story.
philosophy was bad? wasn't it just the argument between fate and choice?Spinozaad said:
Yes it would have been confusing for most people thats why they countered that with revolutionary action scenes which weren't very revolutionary in the sequels so perhaps thats the true answer?
I liked the 2nd one. Little too much speechifying, but a lot to really enjoy in it. There was plenty of original stuff in there, great visuals, and except for, as I wrote, couple of over-long speeches, it worked for me. It does NOT deserve hate.Futurenerd said:
3 was a mess though. It had 2 good scenes and many bad ones. I thought the battle at Zion was dull. To work, you need to understand the danger and what it takes to survive the danger. I'm watching that, and you have so many fast moving squids, on a visceral level, I don't feel suspense. I feel like, OK, the good guys should just be all dead, but that is not in the script, so, I'll watch that guy screaming while shooting bullets at CGI images.
And Trinities death scene: I kept think of Monty Python's "bring out your dead skit". It went on forever.
I did love the battle on the sub with flesh and blood Smith, and the final scene, a sort of remake of Alan Moore's Miracle Man Issue 2 finale, though, I didn't really understand how Neo "won". At least in Miracle Man, he doesn't win. The evil Kid Miracle Man accidentally says his code word to revert from super human to regular human guy, and his brain is fried.
But, those two scenes couldn't save what was otherwise a CGI mess. Would we hate it so much without Part 1? No. We just wouldn't even remember it or be discussing it.
I enjoyed both sequels, although Reloaded more so than Revolutions. It introduced more concepts and perceptions of an already virtual world. Humans were not the only characters within the film's universe. Agent Smith does qualify as a character for his own perceptions and desires that he expressed in the first film, but the other agents were just faceless oppressors, just with godlike powers overcoming the superhuman powers of the humans in the Matrix. Reloaded introduces other non-human characters masquerading as humans within the Matrix. These characters broke the simple concept established in the first film the humans were being enslaved by a universally oppressive, evil, powerful, and emotionless system of control. Once this line was blurred, viewers could no longer simply identify with one side or the other. Now some of the good guys aren't likable, but some of the 'villains' are fun and entertaining (maybe, according to your tastes).
The magic of the first movie couldn't survive with much extrapolation. So, once the audience was disappointed by the world presented by the sequels, it was even harder for them to look favorably on the rest of the films.
Sometimes the best stories, especially those in films, are also the simplest. While I enjoy and appreciate those films with a simple, pure idea behind its story, I also enjoy stories that do require that your expectations change as you experience them. The Matrix sequels fall into the latter category.
The magic of the first movie couldn't survive with much extrapolation. So, once the audience was disappointed by the world presented by the sequels, it was even harder for them to look favorably on the rest of the films.
Sometimes the best stories, especially those in films, are also the simplest. While I enjoy and appreciate those films with a simple, pure idea behind its story, I also enjoy stories that do require that your expectations change as you experience them. The Matrix sequels fall into the latter category.
I dunno, A New Hope can be boring at parts. But Empire is awesome, and Jedi even more so.JaymesFogarty said:
They just felt so unnecessary after the original.
There was the first Matrix and it ended like a classic sci-fi story, where he's The One and you realize that he can do ANYTHING he wants to while there- so I always assumed the specific details of things like the ending and places like Zion were better off being more mysterious and for the viewer to ponder on and conclude. That and Neo seemed really underpowered all of a sudden- for the sake of the plot.
I agree that Reloaded isn't a bad film, really- as I watched it again and liked the story more than the first time I saw it.
Revolutions, though- was just ridiculous. Too many characters we didn't care about- stupid Giant Mechs that were really impractical, Agent Smith becoming a boring character and the script overall was just weak. That and they saved Trinity from dying in Reloaded only to give her a really stupid death in Revolutions before Neo went and chatted up some giant, floating baby head.. thing. That and the last fight scene was supposed to echo the fight between Neo and Smith in the first one- but just felt like some Dragonball Z bullshit.
They all just seemed like classic "the audience is stupid" sequels in that they told us the rest of a story that didn't need to be told
There was the first Matrix and it ended like a classic sci-fi story, where he's The One and you realize that he can do ANYTHING he wants to while there- so I always assumed the specific details of things like the ending and places like Zion were better off being more mysterious and for the viewer to ponder on and conclude. That and Neo seemed really underpowered all of a sudden- for the sake of the plot.
I agree that Reloaded isn't a bad film, really- as I watched it again and liked the story more than the first time I saw it.
Revolutions, though- was just ridiculous. Too many characters we didn't care about- stupid Giant Mechs that were really impractical, Agent Smith becoming a boring character and the script overall was just weak. That and they saved Trinity from dying in Reloaded only to give her a really stupid death in Revolutions before Neo went and chatted up some giant, floating baby head.. thing. That and the last fight scene was supposed to echo the fight between Neo and Smith in the first one- but just felt like some Dragonball Z bullshit.
They all just seemed like classic "the audience is stupid" sequels in that they told us the rest of a story that didn't need to be told