Why all the sudden sexism/feminism?

[yeti585]

And my point still stands. Those are still not the right definitions for the context. That there is such a petty distinction should go to show that they're not meant to be used in the same context as one overrides the other.

Many things are separated by a "petty difference" and that usually shows that they are interchangeable. you know what a "petty difference" is? Bottled water and tap water. It's still water.

Clarify? 'Can't argue that no distinction' doesn't help make it very clear.

A distinction will always be in "favor of or against". I realized how much I butchered that after I posted it.

 

[TehCookie]

Flavor of the month, it'll change when people think of something new. Though this topic usually comes back after a while. Just like the games are art topics a while back.

On the actual topic, I find it unfair games mostly cater to men. Games should try to be equal by either having more manservice or less fanservice. Also is annoys me when guys think steroidbeasts are manservice or when others hate JRPGs pretty boys but don't understand why other girls hate strippers.

I'll stir this question up a tad. In all honesty if I was a company in an industry where the market is dominated by men (FPS's mostly but hence why we have millions of those) then the statistics get skewed the perspective of the game companies seems to be "Is our game a military FPS? No? Do we have sex appeal? Add more boobs men like guns and boobs and we dont got any guns!". That is a sexist attitude toward men at the expense of female characters though. The sexism toward women comes from the choice to ignore that small (but growing) part of the market.

Itd be like advertising make-up toward men sure there are a few out there that use it for whatever reason but its not a large enough part to target.

I'm not saying it's right (i did say it was sexist to ignore them) but I think thats probably the thought process involved. Thoughts?

Do women not play games because they aren't being marketed towards or do they just dislike games so it's not worth the time and money? Or is there another reason? The answer will of course vary from person to person but there are tons of women that buy and play games. Most of them are labeled casual and brushed off. To some guys having games for girls means they're going to ruin their fun so they try to drive them away. I don't even know if it's a majority or vocal minority but there presence does have an effect. If you're a gamer you don't notice it as much because you're use to it.

 

[yeti585]

Alright then. I'd say that if you're going to claim that no one can argue against that you should actually prove it and not leave it as a mere claim with only your word to support it.

Can you say how two things are different without favoring one?

 

[Ecreag91]

Flavor of the month, it'll change when people think of something new. Though this topic usually comes back after a while. Just like the games are art topics a while back.

On the actual topic, I find it unfair games mostly cater to men. Games should try to be equal by either having more manservice or less fanservice. Also is annoys me when guys think steroidbeasts are manservice or when others hate JRPGs pretty boys but don't understand why other girls hate strippers.

I'll stir this question up a tad. In all honesty if I was a company in an industry where the market is dominated by men (FPS's mostly but hence why we have millions of those) then the statistics get skewed the perspective of the game companies seems to be "Is our game a military FPS? No? Do we have sex appeal? Add more boobs men like guns and boobs and we dont got any guns!". That is a sexist attitude toward men at the expense of female characters though. The sexism toward women comes from the choice to ignore that small (but growing) part of the market.

Itd be like advertising make-up toward men sure there are a few out there that use it for whatever reason but its not a large enough part to target.

I'm not saying it's right (i did say it was sexist to ignore them) but I think thats probably the thought process involved. Thoughts?

Do women not play games because they aren't being marketed towards or do they just dislike games so it's not worth the time and money? Or is there another reason? The answer will of course vary from person to person but there are tons of women that buy and play games. Most of them are labeled casual and brushed off. To some guys having games for girls means they're going to ruin their fun so they try to drive them away. I don't even know if it's a majority or vocal minority but there presence does have an effect. If you're a gamer you don't notice it as much because you're use to it.

It is definitely a growing population or at the very least it is becoming more and more noticeable and impactful however compared to the amount of men who play games vs the amount of women who play games the numbers are heavily skewed toward the men and because the female presence is still very much *new* in the video game business world the numbers and data they have collected for years and years is all they can go on, its "safe" for them, maybe wrong, but nevertheless safe.

Personally I hate the term "casual gamer" I think a more accurate term is "Beginner" or "Novice" gamer as most casual gamers tend to be people who dont spend a lot of time gaming and the games that they do play are introducing them into games they're "gateway" games fuck it im just going to say it:

CASUAL GAMES ARE THE MARIJUANA OF THE GAME COMMUNITY

But in relation to what you said did I cover all the points? did I miss anything?

 

[Ecreag91]

Alright then. I'd say that if you're going to claim that no one can argue against that you should actually prove it and not leave it as a mere claim with only your word to support it.

Can you say how two things are different without favoring one?

I hate Nazis and Commies but they ARE different

 

[TehCookie]

-snip-

It is definitely a growing population or at the very least it is becoming more and more noticeable and impactful however compared to the amount of men who play games vs the amount of women who play games the numbers are heavily skewed toward the men and because the female presence is still very much *new* in the video game business world the numbers and data they have collected for years and years is all they can go on, its "safe" for them, maybe wrong, but nevertheless safe.

Personally I hate the term "casual gamer" I think a more accurate term is "Beginner" or "Novice" gamer as most casual gamers tend to be people who dont spend a lot of time gaming and the games that they do play are introducing them into games they're "gateway" games fuck it im just going to say it:

CASUAL GAMES ARE THE MARIJUANA OF THE GAME COMMUNITY

But in relation to what you said did I cover all the points? did I miss anything?

I know women aren't as big of gamers as men, I was pondering why.

Looking at my Sega Genesis games they were mostly gender neutral, but when I looked up old ads on youtube they were clearly targeting guys. None of the commercials even had a girl playing a game. Especially at the age when you have to ask your parents to buy you it, would you parents buy a toy made for the other gender (well maybe your parents wouldn't care but you can probably think of someone you know that would do that)? Or it could be girls hate games, but if that's so why are they getting into them now?

(and I also hate the term casual, since before popcap and facebook I to use it to describe myself since I play games casually and now it's a bad thing.)

 

[Vault101]

Do women not play games because they aren't being marketed towards or do they just dislike games so it's not worth the time and money? Or is there another reason? The answer will of course vary from person to person but there are tons of women that buy and play games. Most of them are labeled casual and brushed off. To some guys having games for girls means they're going to ruin their fun so they try to drive them away. I don't even know if it's a majority or vocal minority but there presence does have an effect. If you're a gamer you don't notice it as much because you're use to it.

I don't think it has to work on the assumption "games for women" and "games for men" (I think this bothers most people because stuff aimed purely at women is usually awful condecending crap...)

I think the Idea is just adding a little more variety (less nathan drake and more femshep) and not having shameless fan-service [b/]where it isnt needed[/b] <-theres a distinct difference there...liek the fan-service in Saints row 3 or Duke Nukem forever Isn't really worth getting ones knickers in a knot over (and saits row gets brownie points for awsome female protagonist...where a "generall all round" game like Uncharted doesnt do as well)

 

[TehCookie]

Do women not play games because they aren't being marketed towards or do they just dislike games so it's not worth the time and money? Or is there another reason? The answer will of course vary from person to person but there are tons of women that buy and play games. Most of them are labeled casual and brushed off. To some guys having games for girls means they're going to ruin their fun so they try to drive them away. I don't even know if it's a majority or vocal minority but there presence does have an effect. If you're a gamer you don't notice it as much because you're use to it.

I don't think it has to work on the assumption "games for women" and "games for men" (I think this bothers most people because stuff aimed purely at women is usually awful condecending crap...)

I think the Idea is just adding a little more variety (less nathan drake and more femshep) and not having shameless fan-service [b/]where it isnt needed[/b] <-theres a distinct difference there...liek the fan-service in Saints row 3 or Duke Nukem forever Isn't really worth getting ones knickers in a knot over (and saits row gets brownie points for awsome female protagonist...where a "generall all round" game like Uncharted doesnt do as well)

I see gender neutral games as marketing towards women, because they are. Just not exclusively women. I also want variety of games but they already have the games for men down, so I would want to add more to that, not do away with it.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Oh for god's sake.

Trend in gaming.


5,000 threads on the Escapist.


5 threads complaining about the above threads, that's how it works.



On topic: This has occured due to the release of the "saints" trailer for Hitman


and the new Tomb Raider trailer at E3



So it's currently a hot-topic.

Which is good, to be honest, maybe the days of fridges wearing fridges as armor fighting their way through fridge shaped enemies are over.

 

[Ecreag91]

I remember one game that really pissed off my sister when she saw it was cooking mama, never played it but based on the given definition that does seem like its a pretty sexist game cooking and mama.

 

[Phasmal]

More women are playing games, some things about the game industry are due for change- not everyone likes that.
So you get backlash.

The people on the escapist love to white knight about things, and this is just one more topic they can use to stroke their own egos and make themselves feel good.

Just curious, you think saying the game community has a problem with sexism is white-knighting?
I thought it was just stating the obvious.

 

[Vault101]

The people on the escapist love to white knight about things, and this is just one more topic they can use to stroke their own egos and make themselves feel good.

right

so believing (and debating) there are issues counts as white knighting?

More women are playing games, some things about the game industry are due for change- not everyone likes that.
So you get backlash.
.

I don't think its just about females...but just growing up in general, not pandering to (what seems like) 14 year olds

I mean I'm sure we can say variety and just generally being better in quality is a good thing?

 

[Phasmal]

More women are playing games, some things about the game industry are due for change- not everyone likes that.
So you get backlash.
.

I don't think its just about females...but just growing up in general, not pandering to (what seems like) 14 year olds

I mean I'm sure we can say variety and just generally being better in quality is a good thing?

Well yeah, thats sort of what I mean. Games have been a certain way but now the audiences are changing (more mature gamers, more female gamers, more people who want more than pandering), and the people who like things the way they are are digging their heels in because they don't want anything to change.

Which is just silly, I dont think that the pandery immature games are ever gonna disappear, people should embrace variety.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't think its just about females...but just growing up in general, not pandering to (what seems like) 14 year olds

I mean I'm sure we can say variety and just generally being better in quality is a good thing?

I wonder how big the overlap is between people complaining games aren't taken seriously as an artform, and people complaining when others hold games to a higher standard are.