Why am i such a coward?

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loc978

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Honestly, in the situation with the old lady and the cab, I would have done something similar. Not just look away, but watch to ascertain no help was needed. Sounds like it was under control, to me.

...with Accursed's story, well... I would've given the guy one order to stop at gunpoint and shot him twice, center of mass, if he didn't comply immediately... but then, I have the advantage of always carrying around a .45 loaded with hollow points...
 

Napierdalac

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Imo, you did the right thing. There where allready people at the scene, if you have rushed over there (dont know your level of expertise in first aid tho) you would end up just being in the way.

And i would say im not a direct coward, me and 2 friends stopped a rape in progress.
We where walking down the street after a night out in the town, when we saw this hooded man pull a young woman into an alley, we ran over there, to find the girl stripped of her shirt and pants, and the guy with the pants open ready to do his filthy deed. I landed a punch in the back of his head which scared him enough to start running, my 2 friends chased him while i stayed with woman and called the cops, i am NO runner - so better i stayed with her and kept her warm on the freezing winter night untill the policecar finally came.
unfortunatley my friends lost the guy in the park, and none of us got a proper glimpse of his face :/
 

DefunctTheory

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loc978 said:
Honestly, in the situation with the old lady and the cab, I would have done something similar. Not just look away, but watch to ascertain no help was needed. Sounds like it was under control, to me.

...with Accursed's story, well... I would've given the guy one order to stop at gunpoint and shot him twice, center of mass, if he didn't comply immediately... but then, I have the advantage of always carrying around a .45 loaded with hollow points...
Would you really even need a gun though?

It's really not that hard to subdue someone if their not paying attention to you. Seriously, all you have to do is grab his knife wrist and twist. And even if you aren't physically proficient, surely you could just give the bastard a running boot to the face/throat/neck.

As someone who's almost finished six years in a job that asks me to serve and protect, maybe I'm a bit brainwashed into this, but is the average person really so disconnected from his fellow man that their suffering doesn't warrant action?
 

loc978

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AccursedTheory said:
loc978 said:
Honestly, in the situation with the old lady and the cab, I would have done something similar. Not just look away, but watch to ascertain no help was needed. Sounds like it was under control, to me.

...with Accursed's story, well... I would've given the guy one order to stop at gunpoint and shot him twice, center of mass, if he didn't comply immediately... but then, I have the advantage of always carrying around a .45 loaded with hollow points...
Would you really even need a gun though?

It's really not that hard to subdue someone if their not paying attention to you. Seriously, all you have to do is grab his knife wrist and twist. And even if you aren't physically proficient, surely you could just give the bastard a running boot to the face/throat/neck.

As someone who's almost finished six years in a job that asks me to serve and protect, maybe I'm a bit brainwashed into this, but is the average person really so disconnected from his fellow man that their suffering doesn't warrant action?
Need? No. I've got plenty of training for nonlethal takedowns (I'm two years out of my service, by the way... the brainwashing just never took with me). A simple wristlock-disarm would certainly suffice... but I feel I would be allowed to be vengeful in that case. Hopefully the jury would agree with me.
 

spartan1077

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The Bucket said:
Right, so you're one of those people who fancies themselve as a amauteur psycologist, thinking that they're figuring out the feeble illiogical humans from a position of superiority.
Not exactly. I don't think of myself as a 'amauteur psycologist' but instead a...okay, I don't actually know what'd I call myself but it wouldn't be that. Sure, I have narcissistic views, but I 'figure out the feeble illiogical humans from a position of superiority'? Not really. More, learn the ways that a normal person would act according to their environment and social status at that time. So I would see if the people going to help are busy with someone already and are going out of there way and so forth. Humans aren't illogical, but they're predictable. That's what I'd be looking for.
 

DefunctTheory

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spartan1077 said:
The Bucket said:
Right, so you're one of those people who fancies themselve as a amauteur psycologist, thinking that they're figuring out the feeble illiogical humans from a position of superiority.
Not exactly. I don't think of myself as a 'amauteur psycologist' but instead a...okay, I don't actually know what'd I call myself but it wouldn't be that. Sure, I have narcissistic views, but I 'figure out the feeble illiogical humans from a position of superiority'? Not really. More, learn the ways that a normal person would act according to their environment and social status at that time. So I would see if the people going to help are busy with someone already and are going out of there way and so forth. Humans aren't illogical, but they're predictable. That's what I'd be looking for.
The results are the same, regardless of your reasons.

Either you're saying this stuff because its 'internet cool,' or you honestly are... I don;t even know.

Disgusting is the closest term I can think of.

if you want to learn about this stuff, I'm sure you can find a paper about it. Probably a study done around the 1930s through the 1940s.
 

The Bucket

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spartan1077 said:
The Bucket said:
Right, so you're one of those people who fancies themselve as a amauteur psycologist, thinking that they're figuring out the feeble illiogical humans from a position of superiority.
Not exactly. I don't think of myself as a 'amauteur psycologist' but instead a...okay, I don't actually know what'd I call myself but it wouldn't be that. Sure, I have narcissistic views, but I 'figure out the feeble illiogical humans from a position of superiority'? Not really. More, learn the ways that a normal person would act according to their environment and social status at that time. So I would see if the people going to help are busy with someone already and are going out of there way and so forth. Humans aren't illogical, but they're predictable. That's what I'd be looking for.
Perhaps I did come on a bit strong there, but I would personally disagree about humans being wholly predictable. It seems like that for long stretches of time, but they can still sucker punch you (in both good and bad ways). I'd think it would basically come down to if they felt that they were the only ones who could do anything. If there were other people around, they probably would shrug away responsibility and walk on, but if they were the only one there, itd take a rare type of person to ignore it.
 

Chrono180

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I would not help a stranger in need because of the fact that here in the US, from what I've read, you can be liable for any injuries that result from you trying to help. I might call 911 but that's as far as I would go. I don't know CPR or anything like that and my brain tends to lock up in stressful situations, so I would likely do more harm than good in any attempt to help.
 

Napierdalac

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XxRyanxX said:
Napierdalac said:
Imo, you did the right thing. There where allready people at the scene, if you have rushed over there (dont know your level of expertise in first aid tho) you would end up just being in the way.

And i would say im not a direct coward, me and 2 friends stopped a rape in progress.
We where walking down the street after a night out in the town, when we saw this hooded man pull a young woman into an alley, we ran over there, to find the girl stripped of her shirt and pants, and the guy with the pants open ready to do his filthy deed. I landed a punch in the back of his head which scared him enough to start running, my 2 friends chased him while i stayed with woman and called the cops, i am NO runner - so better i stayed with her and kept her warm on the freezing winter night untill the policecar finally came.
unfortunatley my friends lost the guy in the park, and none of us got a proper glimpse of his face :/
You have my eternal respects Napierdalac for helping that woman out. It does mean a lot to me when someone actually does something so noble such as that. I hope that guy gets caught because he is disgusting and a disgrace to Society. I give you Props to you and your friends for saving her- Thank you.. just wanted to let you know that :)
Heh, your welcome :p

Actually we kept contact with the nice lady since that night, and she is now a really good friend of ours. Extremely traumatizing experience for her. The trouble she's had returning to a normal life, i can't image how hard it would have been for her if the bastard actually penetrated her.
 

Darkauthor81

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sulld1 said:
The age old question "would you help someone in need?" Now this is a obvious, the answer is always yes you would, but have you ever been in a situation when you could help and you did not? I shall tell you my story.

On my way back to my university residence i am walking through a town square and a taxi is driving through it about 20-25 metres away, as it drives along the door opens and a middle age woman falls out and her head impacts the cobbled stone beneath, at this point she is obviously knocked out cold with possible/probably head injuries, her friends or family rush out of the cab to help her.
At this point i am the only other soul in the square but do i rush to her aid or do i call the ambulance service to aid this woman in need. The answer is no, no i don't i put my head down and keep walking... WHAT?

I turn to you escapists not to help me or to justify my actions but I turn to you to ask "what would you do if someone was in need?" Am i the only one who is a complete and utter coward?

Finally i would like to say i hope with my whole heart the woman is okay and that she makes a full recovery...
We live in a very self centric society. Keep your head down. It's not your problem. Someone else will get involved I'm too busy. In almost every other society people have the exact opposite reaction.

Not us though. No you hear about people getting raped, beaten, robbed, killed while people walk on or take pictures with their cell phones.

It's sick. It's sad. Welcome to America. The land of "It's your problem not mine"
 

spartan1077

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AccursedTheory said:
The results are the same, regardless of your reasons.

Either you're saying this stuff because its 'internet cool,' or you honestly are... I don;t even know.

Disgusting is the closest term I can think of.

if you want to learn about this stuff, I'm sure you can find a paper about it. Probably a study done around the 1930s through the 1940s.
There are tons of studies on it that are still being done to this day. And I've read a lot of them, they're quite interesting. But I don't see why wanting to see what others do in that situation is 'disgusting'
 

spartan1077

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The Bucket said:
Perhaps I did come on a bit strong there, but I would personally disagree about humans being wholly predictable. It seems like that for long stretches of time, but they can still sucker punch you (in both good and bad ways). I'd think it would basically come down to if they felt that they were the only ones who could do anything. If there were other people around, they probably would shrug away responsibility and walk on, but if they were the only one there, itd take a rare type of person to ignore it.
Ya, I did find some cynicism in your post but no problem :p
And that sucker punch is what I'm trying to find. I want to know what makes people be so unpredictable yet still be predictable, you know what I mean?
 

DefunctTheory

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Darkauthor81 said:
sulld1 said:
The age old question "would you help someone in need?" Now this is a obvious, the answer is always yes you would, but have you ever been in a situation when you could help and you did not? I shall tell you my story.

On my way back to my university residence i am walking through a town square and a taxi is driving through it about 20-25 metres away, as it drives along the door opens and a middle age woman falls out and her head impacts the cobbled stone beneath, at this point she is obviously knocked out cold with possible/probably head injuries, her friends or family rush out of the cab to help her.
At this point i am the only other soul in the square but do i rush to her aid or do i call the ambulance service to aid this woman in need. The answer is no, no i don't i put my head down and keep walking... WHAT?

I turn to you escapists not to help me or to justify my actions but I turn to you to ask "what would you do if someone was in need?" Am i the only one who is a complete and utter coward?

Finally i would like to say i hope with my whole heart the woman is okay and that she makes a full recovery...
We live in a very self centric society. Keep your head down. It's not your problem. Someone else will get involved I'm too busy. In almost every other society people have the exact opposite reaction.

Not us though. No you hear about people getting raped, beaten, robbed, killed while people walk on or take pictures with their cell phones.

It's sick. It's sad. Welcome to America. The land of "It's your problem not mine"
It's not an American problem: its happens everywhere.

Korea's about the only place I know of where this is not common. And that's due to the loose way they define 'family.'

spartan1077 said:
There are tons of studies on it that are still being done to this day. And I've read a lot of them, they're quite interesting. But I don't see why wanting to see what others do in that situation is 'disgusting'
You wouldn't help someone who is, quite likely, in danger of dieing (You do know how catastrophic the simplest head bump can become, don't you?), EVEN IF YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE AROUND.

That is disgusting.
 
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[HEADING=1]BOO![/HEADING]
Haha, look at him run!

Seriously though...you're expecting to be able to think calmly and rationally at a point of high emotion?
You've learnt one valuable lesson : Be prepared for the unlikely: And are trying to learn how to be prepared for next time. I think you've nothing to be ashamed of.
 

Booze Zombie

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Standard panic reaction is to run like a bastard; that said, calling an ambulance would've been ideal.

Anyway, I'd call up an ambulance or something (assuming I had my phone on me) and if I could do something to make the situation better (wrap up a wound or scare off a violent thug) but I'm not getting killed for someone else.
 

VincentX3

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Knowing the way most people are, she probably would have sued you if you helped her once she recovered. Since you know, people can sue for everything these days.
 

Yankeedoodles

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Sightless Wisdom said:
This is fairly normal actually, it's called diffusion of responsibility. The more bystanders present in a situation, the less likely the person is to get any help. If there was a large group of people she might not get any help at all, or not until someone finally realized what was going on. If you had been the only one around when she had fallen, you might have done something.
You can ignore most of the other answers posted here. This is the correct one.
 

The Bucket

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May 4, 2010
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spartan1077 said:
The Bucket said:
Perhaps I did come on a bit strong there, but I would personally disagree about humans being wholly predictable. It seems like that for long stretches of time, but they can still sucker punch you (in both good and bad ways). I'd think it would basically come down to if they felt that they were the only ones who could do anything. If there were other people around, they probably would shrug away responsibility and walk on, but if they were the only one there, itd take a rare type of person to ignore it.
Ya, I did find some cynicism in your post but no problem :p
And that sucker punch is what I'm trying to find. I want to know what makes people be so unpredictable yet still be predictable, you know what I mean?
To an extent. I just don't think it's justifiable to use someone elses misfortune to satisfy simple curioity.
 

MasterChief892039

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Jun 28, 2010
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My story isn't one of being too cowardly to help another, but too cowardly to help myself. This isn't a rape story, so try not to be disappointed with the ending. I apologize for the depressing material, and I also bet that some people will think I'm a whiny feminazi, or something along those lines. But this is how I experienced it.

On the last day of term before Christmas break at my university, I ended up spending 12 hours straight working on my final project. I woke up at 8:30am, got to school at 9am, and worked on the project until 9pm with only a small thirty-minute lunch break for the whole day. When I was finally done I was ecstatic because it was finally over, I was incredibly proud of my work, and I was free for a whole two weeks of vacation.

By the time I left the school it had already gotten dark and I was alone, but I live literally a block from the school and didn't think much of it. Between my school and my apartment is a small bridge followed by a badly lit path through the park. Walking home I was whistling and I had a bounce in my step because I was so happy to be free of my classes. I was already planning getting home and cracking a few beers and playing some games to celebrate.

Halfway across the bridge I spotted three loud guys on the dark path that goes through the park. It was a Friday night and they were all carrying half empty bottles. Upon spotting them I stopped moving and started contemplating back tracking to the well-lit, populated recreation center that I had passed earlier, when one of them noticed me and called out, "Hey sweetheart, don't be afraid, we won't hurt you!"

I can't really explain why, but that got my feet moving and I continued walking towards them. Having them talk to me made them seem human and less scary, even if being called "sweetheart" by a stranger was a bit of a red flag. People in our culture, particularly women, are taught to be polite in all situations, and when you've lived your entire life trying to please and avoid offending others, it's difficult to break that cycle, even if you perceive danger.

As I got closer it was obvious I should have turned around. One of the three guys was obviously high and/or drunk out of his mind, but ceased to be a threat because he lay down on a hedge and pretty much passed out. Another of the guys seemed slightly embarrassed that his friend had called me over and avoided eye contact, but he had a pretty creepy air about him. The third guy watched me coming and started asking me a bunch of questions, ie, "Hey baby, whatcha out here for, where you come from, do you go to the school?" They had positioned themselves so I had to walk right through their group to get past.
I told him that yes, I did go to the school.
"Well I like art students, especially short blond ones."
The tone of voice was not friendly. I continued walking.
"Where are you going? Why don't you come out with us, it's a Friday night sweetheart!"
"No", I told him, "I just got done my final project, I'm going to go home and celebrate"(stupid, why would they care or need to know about your project?)

They followed me and I continued to be harassed. The guy made comments about my butt, my boobs, my hair, my waist, what he wanted to do to me, where he wanted to take me, kept calling me pet names, etc. Despite wearing a winter coat/pants/boots that came up to my knees, I felt like I was exposed. A couple of times he got uncomfortably close to me, but never touched me, and I never stopped walking. His friend looked awkward but didn't tell him to lay off. The entire time the hairs were standing up on the back of my neck, I was terrified and feared for my safety, but never once did I stop being polite or smiling. Part of it was not being able to stop, as being polite is my default personality setting and it's not easy to turn off. Another part of it was that I was subconsciously trying to prevent provoking this guy. As much as I was scared and as much as I wanted to tell him to stop, I didn't want to make him angry. I don't want to paint it as though I was happily receiving the attention though. Anyone could have been able to tell I was highly uncomfortable - I was avoiding eye contact, giving short one-word answers, declining all their advances, my voice was shaky and I was walking quickly and never slowed down.

Finally, the path split off and it looked like we were headed in different directions. This is where I feel most like a coward. He continues to try to get me to come out with him with implications of date rape, and I say, "No, I'm going to keep going this way, but have a nice night".

That's the part that still bothers me today. I had this creep sexually harassing me and impeding on my rights and I told him to have a nice goddamn night. He felt entitled to my body, addressed me like an object, made me fearful, and I rewarded him with courtesy. I know in the back of my mind that it was a self-preservation instinct, that I was trying to non-threateningly end the encounter and leave without being hurt, but that doesn't change the fact that I feel like a spineless, misogynist coward for letting this asshole get away with speaking to me like that. He probably went off to some party and made a dozen other women uncomfortable if not worse.
He also got to saunter away, go on with his life and never think twice about the encounter again, while I got to go home and feel dirty, relive my moment of cowardice in my head many times over, and spend the next several weeks afraid when walking home. It's particularly hurtful because I think all people believe that if they were to ever find themselves in a compromising position, they'd be brave, act fast, whatever. I think we all scream at protagonists in horror movies for not doing "what we would do in that situation". However, once you're actually there, fear and self-preservation take hold and you don't do the smart thing. It's difficult coming to terms with the fact that your perception of yourself as a strong, smart person who can handle themselves is wrong.

I also don't think men really realize how damaging cat calling is. If it's daytime and you're in a public area, the woman will think your a jerk. If it's night and she's alone, you're going to make her fear for her life. Neither situation is enjoyable for the woman.

The main thing that I've noticed about cat calling is that it almost always happens when men are in groups. It's never an attempt to actually pick up women, but to reinforce your masculinity and power, and strengthen bonds with other males - but is a macho show for friends really worth degrading another human being?

I wish it wasn't.

Guys out there, I hope you appreciate that you can go out at 10pm and pick up milk, walk home from parties, or go out to enjoy the sound of the city at night if it so pleases you. Because that's not a privilege we all have.