Why are all the good games rated "M"?
- Thread starter Eggsnham
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It's my understanding that minors can purchase M rated games provided their parents are there with them. Seems pretty fair to me, so I don't see what's so much better about UK's system.Eggsnham said:
I only suggested that because anyone who thinks that most good games are rated M is obviously ignoring a lot of other good games from another genres. I mean, take RPGs for example. Aside from Bethesda games and post-2005 Bioware games most RPGs are in the E-T range.Eggsnham said:
That's fine that you were over-generalizing a bit, but just realize that other people are going to see bias when you make a statement like that. It's a bit like if someone were to make a post asking "Why do all good games have amazing graphics?" or "Why are all good games RPGs?".Eggsnham said:
Portalsnowfox said:The problem that I think with T and E+10 (or whatever) games is that they make the mistake they do with cartoons these days... They feel the need to make the game overly lame by putting elements that only kids the ages of 5-10 would find appealing, even though they are trying to sell the game to pre-teens/teenagers... I don't think they realize that most teenagers find this sort of thing is nearly insulting to their intellect.
There is nothing T rated that even remotely appeals to teenagers 2-3 years away from being considered legally an adult, because when producers, developers, and everything in between think of teenagers, they automatically think of 11-13 year old preteens, and thus the T rating is stamped... Which of course, that then pushes E10+ (or again whatever) down to things that would most likely be considered more appealing to childen under the age of 10.
Braid
Metroid Prime
Grim Fandango
Kotor
Planescape: Torment
All have a T rating (or lower)
Are these games so "lame" that they insult your intellect? Cause I'm an adult, yet I still find them pretty witty or interesting.
Also, I was gonna add Arkham Asylum and Uncharted too, but I haven't played them so I can't really vouch for their quality. People say good things about them though.
Hate to break your rose-colored glasses, but Hey Dude and Salute Your Shorts (and prob Angry Beavers also, though I don't remember much of it) are just as inane as anything on TV nowadays.snowfox said:
Why attempt to insult me for having a diverse opinion? I'm not saying it worked but I can't help but ask, what does it solve? Please refrain from doing so if you're going to respond to a mature conversation with a different view on the topic...boholikeu said:
I don't agree with you at all. Strangely, the older I get the less I think M rated games are cool. Maybe it's something like all my friends not really wanting to drink anymore once they turned 21.
I dunno if I'm including any of them on my greatest list, but I get the sentiment.LordNue said:
The problem is that section of gamers who are incapable of playing a game that doesn't centre on blood, violence and sexual content (I'm looking at you Madworld players and Manhunt fans). The lego games were just good fun. I love their sense of humour.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come off so harsh. It's late here, and my posting has the bad habit of getting more incendiary in the wee hours of the morning.snowfox said:
Anyway, my point was more that nostalgia tends to warp how we view things. Adults said the save thing of our TV shows when we were young, and the cycle will repeat itself when the current generation of kids gets older.
I'm more curious about what you thought about my "Teen" games comment though. There are seriously plenty of T rated games that are much less insulting of your intellect than the average "mature" title.
Oblivion was rated T, but they then changed it to M because of a nude mod. Which was stupid because it's only applicable on the computer and it's only if you download/install it yourself.koriantor said:
It's all good, I understand what you mean, and appreciate the apology. You don't see that too often online haha.boholikeu said:
You have a good point though with the Nostalgia. However it would be interesting to see how viewers today would react if we were able to put the shows that are available today back to back with shows of yesterday. Maybe somebody could make a research study out of that.
As for your list of T games, the only 2 that I actually got to play were kotor and Portal.
From what I remember of Kotor, it is a great example you brought up against my previous post. I don't however remember ever seeing it advertised. In fact when I was in high school. I remember only being told about it by my one buddy. This could be different in other areas though. Another issue though, is that it's indeed an older game. I don't wish to speak for everyone everywhere, but around here, the younger audience would probably maul if they didn't get the next new thing...
There is also the issue with Kotor being that it is a Star Wars game. This is just going out on a limb here, I'm most likely going to be wrong with this but it's worth a shot.. In this day in age, only a true fan of Star Wars in that age group will see the beauty that was Ep 4-6... Most of them will instantly think of the first three episodes, seeing as how it's something they grew up with... There are mixed speculations on those first three, which is why some might not show interest in the game, for several possible reasons. Be it that they don't want to be associated because of the mixed speculation of the movies, or that they themselves didn't like those movies and thus wouldn't show interest in the game to name a few.
Then of course, there are those who just don't like Star Wars... Of course all games will appeal to different audiences, but usually anything Star Wars, has that minor set back of being stereotyped as a geeky genre. That is very limiting on the intended audience the developers were aiming for.
I'm just rambling though, lol. When you said you were interested to hear what I had to say on the matter, I took it as a challenge, so don't mind me.
Portal I forgot was Labeled T to be honest with you. Though the only issue I see with it, is it's short length... Games like MW2 that younger gamers have their eye on now, can be replayed over and over again due to its content.
Portal however can be beaten within 2 hours... It's a great example considering what I have said in my previous post, but it just doesn't hold the attention span after the first couple of plays due to its small content.
Sure they'll play it, but then they'll go looking for something else soon afterwords, and chances are it will be a M rated game.
When you mention of Metroid Prime, I can't help but remember how my 14 year old nephew and I had a laugh when he and I were playing a game. He said "Man I'm sooo sick of killing aliens, where I responded that "I was soooo sick of killing Nazi's." Don't get me wrong, I'm not basing the opinion of the entire group of teenagers on just my nephew, it was just something I got a laugh out of that I wanted to share...
It does however bring up a good topic for discussion however... Is alien blasting just as tiresome for teenagers as Nazi blasting is for us?
I'm going to stick to what I know though with Portal and Kotor.
They are fine examples against my original statement earlier, I'll give you that, but hopefully you can see the problem as to why they may be overlooked in the eyes of the intended age group.
As for the others though, I never played them so I can't personally have a say on them.
I will say this now that I'm thinking of it... This totally blew my mind just now.
In MW2, there was a lot of controversy behind it due to it's content... That can be said for a lot of M rated games like ME, and the ever popular GTA series.
What is the first thing that enters a younger gamers mind when they are told they can't have something? Most cases that just makes them want it more.
So could this could be a valid opportunity to gain some foothold against news companies and anti-gaming groups for the fact that they constantly bring these games to the public eye. The more they bring up the controversy in those games, the more it makes the child want to play it, because to them it's forbidden fruit. Seeing how TV is a big part of culture, let alone could possibly be a big part of a child or teenagers lifestyle. It's an easy attempt to throw the issue back in their face by constantly bringing it up on the TV.
Maybe if M rated games appeared less on TV, while at the same time they showed more commercials for T rated games,[small] (I'm saying this based on the commercials played in my area, I can't necessarily speak for outside that zone.) [/small] This issue wouldn't be as much of an issue as it is now.
Because although I have seen tons of advertisements for CoD and Halo and GTA games, I have never seen an advertisement for KOTOR or Portal... Infact Metroid is the only game from that list that I have ever seen a TV announcement for. This could be the biggest or probably the only problem we have on the issue. Even despite everything I've said before.
Edit: Wow.... Please excuse any grammar or typing issues in this.. When I type out giant walls of text, I tend to focus more on what I'm trying to say other than how it is written. I usually type as if I was having a conversation with some one face to face though, which we never speak with proper grammar to begin with.
I've always viewed what we learned in writing classes as more of a general guideline anyway... Writing is more or less an art, and is unique to the individual writer. I understand people don't see it the way I do and would prefer something typed out in the general guideline, but hey! I'm not perfect dangit!!
Why ask the question? The ESRB doesn't do shit nowadays, even a six year old can be found playing an M rated game if you look carefully enough...
Minors can buy games if an approving parent/legal guardian is present, but when "Lil' Jimmy", aged 14; wants to buy say, CoD 4 or CoD MW2 but can't because it's rated "M" and his parents have the no "M" games rule, doesn't he wish that the rating system was more specific towards people of his age group (13-16)? Why deny people experiences because they're under age?boholikeu said:It's my understanding that minors can purchase M rated games provided their parents are there with them. Seems pretty fair to me, so I don't see what's so much better about UK's system.Eggsnham said:
I only suggested that because anyone who thinks that most good games are rated M is obviously ignoring a lot of other good games from another genres. I mean, take RPGs for example. Aside from Bethesda games and post-2005 Bioware games most RPGs are in the E-T range.Eggsnham said:
That's fine that you were over-generalizing a bit, but just realize that other people are going to see bias when you make a statement like that. It's a bit like if someone were to make a post asking "Why do all good games have amazing graphics?" or "Why are all good games RPGs?".Eggsnham said:
Portalsnowfox said:The problem that I think with T and E+10 (or whatever) games is that they make the mistake they do with cartoons these days... They feel the need to make the game overly lame by putting elements that only kids the ages of 5-10 would find appealing, even though they are trying to sell the game to pre-teens/teenagers... I don't think they realize that most teenagers find this sort of thing is nearly insulting to their intellect.
There is nothing T rated that even remotely appeals to teenagers 2-3 years away from being considered legally an adult, because when producers, developers, and everything in between think of teenagers, they automatically think of 11-13 year old preteens, and thus the T rating is stamped... Which of course, that then pushes E10+ (or again whatever
Braid
Metroid Prime
Grim Fandango
Kotor
Planescape: Torment
All have a T rating (or lower)
Are these games so "lame" that they insult your intellect? Cause I'm an adult, yet I still find them pretty witty or interesting.
Also, I was gonna add Arkham Asylum and Uncharted too, but I haven't played them so I can't really vouch for their quality. People say good things about them though.
Hate to break your rose-colored glasses, but Hey Dude and Salute Your Shorts (and prob Angry Beavers also, though I don't remember much of it) are just as inane as anything on TV nowadays.snowfox said:
I realize the mistake of my over-generalizing and now regret taking that risk, as half of the posters on this thread have only set out to formulate a long list of fun not "M" rated games.
Snowfox has a point though, there are good "T" games that aren't boring to those under 13 or so years old, we've established that, but that doesn't change the fact that there are games that are insulting to a person's intelligence when played. And a lot of them too.
Also, don't talk shit about old-school Nicktoons!
I've got nothing to say.. You speak the truth.snowfox said:That's a good to hear you agree with me. It's a safe bet that mid-teens are indeed getting the shaft.Eggsnham said:
One thing that I want a point out that's related however. I've noticed in a few T or E(insert number here) games. They insult the players intelligence by having some one constantly remind the player of their current goal within a 20-30 second mark. Sure an on screen blip of the current goal is always nice, but do they honestly think that people can't read that they need to have a verbal reminder every 30 seconds?
I'm not sure the rating of the game but I'm assuming it's either E or T but the original transformers game for the Wii and other possible systems is a fine example of this, since right now nothing else comes to mind at the moment.
Putting all Wii bashing in a box for now. I honestly felt that by having some one constantly remind me of my goal, despite having in game blips and icons directing me visually, was a tad annoying to the point where even I wanted to yell "HULK SMASH!!!"
I wanted to assume that it was in there for younger gamers to help them direct them to their intended target, but I can't think of a certain kid in any age group needing such a constant reminder.
Even if I was of actual age for the games targeted audience... [small] Outside the targeted audience that were either fans of the movie, or people in their 30's that were huge transformer fans back when the original cartoons were a riot, like my brother who practically soiled himself when he first hear there was a live action movie coming out.[/small] I would have felt this to be extremely irritating, regardless of what age I was at the time. Perhaps if I were an extremely young gamer at the age between 5-9 I wouldn't matter so much, because it's obvious that the younger you are, the less irritating everything is for you.
That doesn't make sense though, if they were going to make a game that they knew that, not only were they targeting a younger audience, but also an audience that either grew up with transformers in their hearts and an audience that was moved by the movie. Why irritate 75% of your audience to compensate for the rest?
I guess what I'm trying to say is, it's little things that get passed in development like that, that make the game lose it's appeal to those in the age group that want to be viewed as more mature because at that stage in life, their minds and bodies are taking a turn... [small] For the worst... HAH!!!
They are trying to make these games that are rated T appeal to not only 11-13 year olds, but also 14-16 year olds... Which if memory serves me well, and indeed it does... I can recall having interests at 14-16 years of age that made me wonder why I liked the things I did at 11-13... Though different for everybody, 14-16 year olds start to see themselves a lot differently. For their bodies and minds have passed the rough spots of maturity that left their 11-13 year old selves extremely confused.
Infact, when I placed in charge of a clan in cod4. I found myself making exceptions to my 17+ rule, for I kept finding players with exceptional skill and attitude that were in the 14-16 age group. Although I didn't let every person in that age group in for obvious reasons, there was a good handful that proved to be matured beyond my expectations that made even some of my older clan members seem a little questionable.
It just depends on the person of that age group, but the fact that they are all shot down by the rating system, does not seem very fair for those that could hold a good, deeply serious conversation with me despite our age differences...
I do see a valid point in your response that the rating system needs to be reworked. There should be more of a closing gap to appeal to those in that middle group that depending on the person, they will either most likely feel shafted, or there may be a game here and there that they find entertaining despite it being extremely dumbed down to the point of just damn near insulting.
I do believe it's all a part of the "babying" trend the country is going through these days... Where no company, whether it be gaming, film, or television, wishes to suffer the wrath of the parents for something that could potentially warp the minds of their children.
So they simply just take anything remotely mind warping and we're forced with more or less, 16 years of entertainment that is suitable only for 5-9 year olds.
On the cartoon/television side of things, it is almost as if they assume that every single child has a form of ADD. Hell I know people who take medicine for ADD and ADHD that find these shows to be a giant cluster fuck of illogical random BS. [small] I don't actually believe in such things as ADD. I have a very logical explanation, that I won't get into now to keep the flow of the post going, but if you're a person who was prescribed with ADD medicine and feel slightly offended to this, please don't, it's not to be an insult towards you.. Instead it's an insult to doctors/government/ parents/ etc etc. [/small]
For those who read this that are of my age group, [small] (I'm 23) [/small] Don't you remember shows like Hey dude, Salute your shorts, Rugrats, Ren and Stimpy, Angry Beavers, and although the name escapes me I believe the show was called Gak?
A great portion of these shows were targeted to young viewers and older viewers at the same time. As a youngin when those shows were in their prime, I enjoyed all of them because they all had great storylines, [small] well besides Gak because that was more of a game show if anything[/small] GREAT jokes, and characters you could relate too or connect with.
The shows they have out these days, it makes you wonder, who in their right mind that isn't a preteen or older, watch this crap!!! Everything is so void of anything of intellectual value, only because companies and developers are too afraid to make something that would make younger minds tick, because some parent will go ape shit if it happens to be something that made their darling little angels' mind tick in the wrong direction.
Isn't there anything the TV, film, and gaming companies can do in terms of legal defense that protects them against this sort of thing? Creating a disclaimer for each show and game stating that they aren't responsible for anything the parents feel is unsafe for their children, and if they feel that way they should change the channel or turn it off or take the game away etc etc.
There has got to be some form of legal protection they can come up with to defend themselves from the onslaught of over protective parents so they can get back to releasing products that the other 80% of the population can enjoy..
One can only dream though, I'm sorry if I may have strayed off the topic here and there, but I feel it is all related... Thank you Eggsnham for your response, I'm glad to see I was able to touch on something that you agree with. Although I never got to play that R&C game, I was referring to some of the demos they have on the PS3 at the moment. I forget which one it is, but I remember you played as Clank and had to solve puzzles. The visuals were amazing, the game play was exceptional, but the voice acting and dialogue seemed extremely annoying and, dumbed down. [small] (Especially that damn robot that served as your tutorial guide >:O) [/small]
Edit:
Don't get me wrong, R&C looks like a great game, infact I could safely say it could be one that I may rent one of these days, but I just feel that it may have fallen victim to the degrading affect that the Transformers game suffered from. If you feel differently, just remember it's just a general opinion based on how much of the actual game i got to play.
Games aimed at a mature audience usually have more complex story, more violence and more realistic language.
I think the reason a lot of games are rated M is because if its a game, the player is actually interacting and implementing all of the violence, but in movies and TV shows they're watching somebody else do it. It is quite a hypocritical statement when a parent lets their nine-year old child watch 300 (decapitation, blood, nudity) and they won't let them play Halo (blood and a little swearing). I guess they think if the kid does it in the game, it makes them think they can do it the real world. But if they watch a movie depicting the same thing they won't think it's right?
/facepalm
/facepalm
Your cause is noble, but sometimes life just isn't fair. Parents will be parents and they only do what they think will help you grow up to become a functioning member of society. Most of them anyways. Besides, it's their house, their rules. At 18, those kids can move out and have an M rated game marathon.Eggsnham said:
WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???
But truthfully, I think it's because society has evolved to believe itself above violence, blood, and murder, even though every sign points the other way. Therefore, ratings are established to keep the childerkin in that same mind of thinking and prevent violence. Morons.
But truthfully, I think it's because society has evolved to believe itself above violence, blood, and murder, even though every sign points the other way. Therefore, ratings are established to keep the childerkin in that same mind of thinking and prevent violence. Morons.
I saw ads for Portal and Metroid Prime.snowfox said:
Anyway though, regardless as to whether or not they were well advertised, they are still examples of mature T games. Saying all T games insult your intelligence is just an over-generalization that frankly isn't true.
Because it's still the parent's right to raise their kids how they want. If you have strict parents, tough luck. That's life. Just wait a few more years and you can move out, play any video games you want and never listen to your parents again if you want.Eggsnham said:
There are T rated games that can be insulting to a person's intelligence, but these are also typically bad games that no self-respecting gamer would want to play anyway (I think the example Snowfox gave was the Transformers game...).Eggsnham said:
Not to mention there are plenty of M rated games that insult MY intelligence by assuming all I care about is "dark" games with tons of boobs and blood.
