Why are Americans so Patriotic?

[Zack Alklazaris]

I must admit many of my fellow Americans have Uncle Sam's stick of freedom shoved so far up their asses that they can't possibly see anything wrong with this country.

I'm the type of person that likes to view things from all sides before making a decision. America is NOT the greatest country in the world. Its ranking in health care and education has dropped significantly below the other super powers in the world.

Technically, America still has the worlds largest economy, though one can say China is doing far better with their economy that America is right now. America is divided so much so on so many things that it takes YEARS to get things done, that is true with other countries as well, but America has fallen behind in some areas while other countries step forward.

Example, stem cell research, America has tight grip laws on stem cell research, this because way back the only known way to get stem cells was from a fetus. Now days you can get them from the skin cells of the very patient you are treating. So all this research (and money) is going to other countries.

Because Americas education system is in the toilet many of the strongest companies in the world are outsourcing elsewhere. This is a very technologically demanding age. (AKA Lots of Math, Engineering, Science) Which America lacks.

I could go on and on. I will say one thing thats wonderful about this country. I can walk up to the President of the United States, call him a useless pile of shit and may he get struck down by lightning. And no one can do anything about it. The freedom of free expression is wonderful here. I know other countries have something similar, but they still tend to remain "tactful". America simply doesn't.

Your post was intelligent and thoughtful and most of it is, unfortunately, true. Our economy isn't as strong as it used to be and bureaucracy bogs down progress a lot of the time. Our education system and infrastructure are in dire need of an overhaul. The health care system, mehhh...I do ok with it, but I won't argue that point there.

The one problem I have with your post is your last sentence. Such a crass over generalization is a stark contrast to the rest of your seemingly thoughtful post. The only Americans not 'tactful' with their complete freedom of expression are very, very small minority. Don't lump a huge, diverse population in with idiots like WBC and fox news. Most of us aren't like that. You live here, you know that.

Let me give you an example, the royal wedding of Prince William and Catherine. Technically Catherine is suppose to take over the same title as Princess Diana, but she didn't because it would be in bad taste to the memory of Diana. Thats what a meant by tact. I didn't mean to refer to the other side which consist of "AMERICA! F@#K YEA!" and fart jokes.

 

[Something Amyss]

Now you're ignoring the context of the thread to argue semantics with me. Semantics [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantics]

Now you're just flat out lying so you have an accusation to make.

 

[Therumancer]

Actually, America doesn't have anywhere near enough patriotism. Right now the majority of the left wing and especially it's younger "hipster" community are very anti-America. Even those that claim to be pro-America and rant about "taking the country back" ultimatly support pretty much undermining the country and it's own power and global dominance, oftentimes without any real clear idea of who should be leading things instead of us.

Read: "You don't support my specific views, so you're un-American!"

That kind of blind patriotism is awesome.

.

In so far as this discussion goes, yes. There is a lot of leeway for massive disagreement within the general support of America, however when your dealing with arguements that lead to the reduction in power and primacy of your own nation that is the opposite of patriotism... which is exactly the point. Right now it's "hip" to be un-patriotic.

 

[repeating integers]

I once posted this sketch on Facebook:

An American friend of mine got really angry and wrote a massive 500 word reply.
When I asked her to calm down, she replied that she "was just defending her country."

I think it's just people like her that give the others a bad name.

EDIT: Fixed video.

EDIT2: Now, that I've watched it again, I see that he does sound like a bit of an asshole. That may have something to do with my friend getting angry.

Ye gods, the flamewars in those comments. They are either hilarious or terrifying depending on your perspective.

 

[LilithSlave]

There does seem to be a rising amount of patriotism in Britain. The British National Party is more successful than ever there, now.

Sure, they just went from a laugh to a big laugh. But a lot of Leftists were worried. They gained a lot of influence in recent year and this has both bothered a lot of people and pleased a few people. They didn't stand a chance against labour, of course. But it's pretty undeniable that they've been more successful in recent year than ever before.

Then also "Rivers of Blood" has always had a place in the consciousness of Britain.

So I wouldn't say that British Nationalism is dead.

 

[Something Amyss]

I don't like the message that the pledge of allegiance says about religion.

We were a lot, lot better without the pledge of allegiance.

You know, the original pledge doesn't reference God at all.

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The author of the pledge opposed changes, including religious mention.

Anyway, that's just nuance. My major problem here is not so much the pledge as a problem, and more the pledge as a symptom. the same Congress who pledged no more symbolic gestures just spent time on reaffirming "In God We Trust" as our national motto. The pledge saw an insertion of "Under God" because of religious fundamentalists having a fit.

I think the pledge is silly to begin with, but perhaps we were as bad off before it have a shout out to God. Perhaps it's merely because of the insinuation of Christianity into everything, not because of some silly little thing that kids are made to say.

 

[WanderingFool]

It's just the vocal minority. Which unfortunately (as always) are far more in the spotlight than most Americans, who plainly don't give a crap.

This.

I may be understandably upset when you insult Americans (largely because it almost always gets taken as a insult to ME specifically) but im not going to start an arguement over it.

What's happening is that lately America is doing a lot of things to piss of the rest of the world. This results in a lot of people pointing this out to us, which causes the vocal minority to get up in arms about defending our actions. They usually do so using buzz phrases and abject lack of logic, which in turn makes us look even worse. This is not patriotism though. It is a bunch of tantrum throwing under the guise of patriotism.

The true definition of patriotism is national pride, which Im sure most people in most countries have. I feel bad for anyone who lacks patriotism, no matter where they are from. It seems to me that anyone who is unpatriotic is either being oppressed, or genuinely believes their country is shit.

A true patriot would not defend the wrong doings of their country. A true patriot has enough respect for their country to point out its flaws and suggest solutions for the betterment of all. Kind of like how a true friend will tell you when your breath smells bad.

Actually, this really sums up what the rest of my post was going to be...

 

[Something Amyss]

In so far as this discussion goes, yes. There is a lot of leeway for massive disagreement within the general support of America, however when your dealing with arguements that lead to the reduction in power and primacy of your own nation that is the opposite of patriotism... which is exactly the point. Right now it's "hip" to be un-patriotic.

That's silly. right now it's "hip" to want government to stop propping up toxic corporations. It's "hip" to want some accountability from Wall Street. Man, do you really think that accountability is unamerican?

I mean, we're supposed to be "of the people, by the people, and for the people."

Or is that last quote unamerican?

 

[LilithSlave]

Well, we were better off without the religious connotations, at the very least.

Either way pressuring kids to feel patriotic is bad. And patriotism and nationalism in general is unhealthy for the world. There is no point in being proud of something you didn't choose. And I prefer to promote the idea of "citizen of the world".

I don't know why those conspiracy theory folks hate the idea of a "one world government" so much. Because to me, that sounds like a grand idea, given that said government is reasonable and fair. And if it wasn't, it would make the entire world it's enemy!

My citizenship is to the world and my allegiance is to earth. And my race and ethnicity is human.

We need not destructive things like nations, races, borders and barriers.

 

[Schmittler]

I wouldn't really say Americans are that Patriotic at all. That's of course just from my perspective, but the examples you gave could be applied to any country or culture.

If I were to insult the UK, there would be people to defend it quite rapidly.

I think there are faults in America, as there are in every country, but there's nothing wrong with having pride with where you are from. And America does have some really good aspects to it that were original for their time like the Bill of Rights.

 

[EvilPicnic]

I think there's nothing wrong with being patriotic and appreciative of the country you live in (as long as it's realistic). What I have a problem is nationalistic tendencies that state that one country is qualitatively 'better' than all other countries - see 'American Exceptionalism'.

*SNIP*

word

 

[flying_gazzelle]

2. Americans do everything BIG. We may have some of the most vocal patriots, but we also have the most vehement self-loathers. On top of that, we're a very self-analytical country. You don't see other countries talking about their own faults, or how they've done cruel things in their history--at least not to the extent Americans do.

I don't know if you've seen any British Patriots (Note that I said Patriots and not nationalists) but the entire point of British Patriotism is self-loathing.
Oh herp derp we conquered half the world. We are evil bad people. We must hate what we were and strive to never be the same!
...I generalised a lot but that is effectively how it is. As a Scot it wasn't so bad for me but even then whenever I was taught in history (Golden age for Britain, Scottish wars of independance, Scottish hill Farming) we almost always went on about how tyrannical Britain was etc.
It's actually in the curriculum to teach children to never attempt to form an empire again.

 

[LilithSlave]

If you're going to be proud of culture and people though, why do something so divisive as be patriotic?

You are not your race, or your nation, or your ethnicity. These are only ties that hold a human down.

If a person should be proud, they should be proud of the accomplishments of good humans, not nations.

I think there's nothing wrong with being patriotic and appreciative of the country you live in

Why not be equally appreciative of other nations?

I have to say, you can say what you want about so called "Communists" like Stalin that I don't even think count as Communists. If a people should come together and support each other and identify themselves with anyone, it's not their nation and their country(wo)men. Your country is not who you are. Your country is not your backbone. Your country cares little about you. Your state serves the rich, not the citizen.

The real people who should band together, are the poor of all nations. Instead of the nation, the poor of the entire world should try to become one big family that supports each other.

You may not approve of Leftist collectivism that I am espousing. But it is the collectivism that makes the most sense. Patriotism is not Individualism. Patriotism is trying to make family with your country.

I do not identify with country. I identify with people of similar interests and desires that I can get along with and could possibly support me. International Socialists belief that the proletariat of the world are family. At least so much as nationalists believe that people of a certain culture and ethnicity and nation are family. And between the two, I'd say an international identity is much greater.

I expect someone, as I've heard nationalists claim over the years, that "foreigners will never accept you". And I per-emptively say, the reason many foreigners do not get along together, is because of thought like that. People can get along no matter what nation they are from. And many people in their own respective nations do not get along. And it is the people who say foreigners cannot get along, that divide and help create the truth such people say is true.

Your country does not care about you. Your country is not your backbone. Your country is not your family. Your country will do dilly squat to help you in most cases. And if it does, it's not because it's patriotic. It's because of a policy that cares about the poor.

 

[Therumancer]

The stereotype comes from a lot of the world realizing that it exists in the shadow OF America, and especially given that the country is under 3 centuries old, there is a degree of resentment.

So basically indoctrination, that's why Americans are so patriotic. It's got nothing to do with whether the country is great or not, it's that the children are taught about how awesome America is before they can even talk properly.

These two statements are perfect examples of the two extremes that make me despair for any real chance at global understanding.

Well, in the end global understanding is only going to come through conquest of one sort or another, and indeed it's a nessecity for humanity that we see a global unity... for reasons I could go into but represent an entirely differant discussion beyond the context of this thread.

Right now you have plenty of global understanding, the thing is that understanding does not mean peaceful cohabitation, especially when you consider the realities facing humanity. Understanding a group of people in many cases simply means knowing exactly why you disagree, are in conflict, and will not be able to resolve things peacefully... diametrically opposed idealogies for example. Reason vs. Spirituality as the foundation for a society for example. Equating understanding with peace is a mistake a lot of youthful idealists make.

In the scope of this discussion the US is attempting to conquer/unify the world through the spread of ideas more than anything, which is why so many nations (including civilized ones) are so concerned about national firewalls for the preservation of their own identities and such. It's been said rather truthfully that the US has conquered the world more successfully with "The Big Mac" and "Melrose Place" than anyone has through outright military conquest. Our focus on this however has sort of blinded us to reality, and the simple fact that not everyone is going to be swayed by, and come together under any idealogy, meaning that no matter how much is done peacefully in the end the final unity happens at the point of a gun with the deaths of billions.

The overall point here is that reality is harsh. Don't cry out for a lack of global understanding, we've pretty much got that. Rather concern yourself with what that understanding actually means.

... and yeah, I can understand the counter perspective, though it's not a matter of American patriotism, so much as a lot of the world being sold on America and it's ideals, especially the youth which is the reason why you have so many desires to try and put the brakes on global media because those who benefit in terms of power from ruling seperate nations aren't took keen on the idea of a formation of a new system, or at least a major alliance on the level that is going to begin the charge to that global unity.

 

[razerdoh]

There is a thin line between patriotism and Nationalism...

 

[BoogieManFL]

I'm an American and discussions like this are largely pointless. There are far too many people who are Americans for anything useful to be gained from talking with such a small portion of the target audience.

Stereotypes are real, but are in no way a definitive go to for how most people mentioned in the stereotype actually behave. It merely means some do and it's be made common knowledge.

Unless you've personally lived and interacted with a people in their own country, you don't know the people at all. Even then, you only know those people. Media, movies, forums - it's not in any way accurate enough for you to form a real opinion of the people.

Personally I think if you like your country you should have your own sense of patriotism. It's your home, after all. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I don't think we're better than anyone else. If someone thinks we're shit, that's their opinion and I don't really care. I would just hope they'd have real reasons that are their own, not a product of the media or information they didn't gather for themselves personally.

From all the people I know, the vast majority of them wouldn't get all aggressive or self righteous about it. They'd just want to know why you feel that way.

 

[similar.squirrel]

..maybe colonise some places, kill the natives etc.

Erm. I'm getting the impression of a glaring oversight here.

 

[oppp7]

and don't say that anyone would be that way about their home country, because if someone came up to be and said "hey, england's crap!" i'd just say "yeah, it is a bit"

Sounds like anecdotal evidence. In general, people will get angry when you insult a group they're a part of because no matter how much they try to distance themselves from it, they will still on some level feel like the insult includes them (probably could have phrased this better, but hopefully you get my point).

Also, look at it this way, if I said "America is better than England" you'd likely get upset.

Edit: Also it's funny.

 

[Lug100]

The best way I can describe it is like this:

You're sitting in a pub with your wife. She's pretty, she's not perfect, and she does some annoying things from time to time, but you love her with all your being. Then some dude walks up to you and says, "Your wife's a fugly c*** *****!"

Are you just going to sit there and say, "Yea, I guess you're right." Or are you going to punch his lights out? Neither response may be perfect in an ideal world, but it's the only way I can describe American patriotism.

I agree with that point, theres nothing wrong with some patriotism, but the point is, all lot of americans (not all, just the ones often noticed) have a tendence to take it too far. To use your annology;

You're sitting in a pub with your wife. She's pretty, she's not perfect, and she does some annoying things from time to time, but you love her with all your being. Your look around the room, and see lots of other happy couples and decide your wife is better than theirs. You procced to get up and move around the room shoving you wife in the face of all the other men shouting "HAHA my wifes so much better than yours!" and punching anyone who tries to disagree.