Why are people afraid of the trades?

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ThatPurpleGuy

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Feb 4, 2010
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All of what you say is true OP, you can make tonnes of money in the trades. The big tradeoff though is that you have to work your ass off. In my early 20's I did a tiling apprenticeship and later on moved into carpet laying. I earnt awesome money but the body gives way early and even now in my 30's I know that job did permanent damage to my lower back.

Now I am a delivery driver, I earn much less money but I don't come home stuffed, tired and dirty everyday. I guess what I am saying is that its not necessarily that trades are "frowned" upon (although by some they are), its just there are far better options out there where the physical nature of the work is alot less.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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In Search of Username said:
Everyone thinks they are destined for great things now, or feels that they have to be in order to fit in. It's kind of childish.
define great things?

I don't like that, like saying "hey man, life sucks and you have to settle for something you don't like because THATS LIFE"

I'm not saying being a trades person isn't a good (alot of evidence would suggest otherwise) I am saying that its ok to be ambitious or to go for some seemingly unacheivable goal even
 

NightHawk21

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aba1 said:
SciMal said:
aba1 said:
I get that trades are generally looked down on but I ask why?
Well, what did your parents tell you growing up? Chances are it was "Get a college degree so you can get a good paying job."

It's not that people look down on Trades (unless it's born from ignorance of how well trained the people who practice them are), it's just that it never comes up. Nobody's parents ever said "Get a job as an Electrician, you'll never be out of work."
Well my parents just always said work hard and find something you like that will make you a good living because if you hate your job you will hate a large chunk of your life. Which makes sense to me. Either way I am not trying to argue with you in fact you actually made my point which I love ya for. The issue is nobody even thinks of the trades which is why I am trying to give them so light so to speak get some discussion going. Maybe someone will read this who cannot decide where to go and consider it who knows just more people need to be aware.

Also I am aware this is a bad target group for this conversation but well I was noticing a bunch of college uni threads so I thought I would throw it out there :p
I think my school was actually fairly good about this. They continuously promoted the co-op program and left apprenticeships on the table. That said, ya my parents were like go to university to get a high paying job. Mind you it never really was an issue since I needed to go to get the job I want, but man is it fun when you actually get to do what you want to do. Hard work, but so much fuking fun.
 

Nimzabaat

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Feb 1, 2010
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rEvolution said:
Nimzabaat said:
rEvolution said:
aba1 said:
I have seen conversations crop up about people going to college for useless degrees only to get no jobs or how the job market is so bad. Sometimes when having conversations about the bad job market with people and how some college degrees are useless I mention that more people should go into a trade. Most people will stop turn slowly and look at me like I just committed murder as if I have said something so absurd they cannot believe I would mention it.

I get that trades are generally looked down on but I ask why? Fact is that is where all the work is and not only that it is where a lot of the money is. A person going through for a apprenticeship for a plumbing job will make more money and find work way easier than any engineering jobs or scientific studies job and it isn't even like plumbers have to work in shit they can just set up pipes if they so please and that is just plumbing I haven't even touched on electricians, construction workers, mechanics etc. I just have to know why is the idea of doing a apprenticeship and going for a trade such a absurd concept to so many people when logic dictates that they are the smartest thing to do and that if you want to be a success that is what you should do.
But then what happens when everyone's a plumber?

But in all seriousness;

If you want to be a success, being a Plumber isn't always the smartest thing.

Someone with a degree in engineering can apply that to a huge range of specialties with a huge number of options. (Even if the competition for opportunities is much higher these days.)

But a Plumbers a Plumber. A Valuable service; but the success potential is much lower than someone who builds Jet-Engines or Turbines.

On a whole I agree though; More people should join Trade Professions because its an essential component to a civilization. But the reality is a Plumber has far less success potential than an Engineer; it's just a fact.

There is some grey area but If you were asked to bet on the comparable success of an Engineer or a Plumber. Simple choice isn't it really.
Actually in the trades you will find a lot of incredibly educated people. People holding several degrees working as pipefitters, because that's where the money is, is actually the norm. I have a friend who went into pipefitting and he makes a lot more than I do, while only working four months out of the year. (Yes i'm kicking myself over that).
Your point doesn't really make sense in the context of what I've said.
Who said there were no educated trades people?

Someone that holds several degrees is someone that trained to be something that isn't a pipe fitter, (Because no decent University does Pipe Fitting Degrees) but that person is able to fit pipes while also being able to do the jobs related to their Degrees.

Therefore; they have a much higher success potential because a Pipe Fitter with no degrees cant do the jobs a Pipe Fitter with degrees could do. But a Pipe Fitter with degrees is actually an Engineer (Or whatever discipline the degree is in) who fits pipes.

My point still stands; An Engineer has a higher success potential than a Plumber simply because the Engineer can do the Plumber's job and then a whole host of other things a Plumber would not have a chance at.
As long as your point is that a journeyman pipefitter makes more money than an engineer and also has a better chance of finding employment. Then we are in complete and total agreement. Because that was my point. That people who are highly educated and can get prestigious sounding jobs are taking trade jobs because they make more money.
 

Nantucket_v1legacy

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Mar 6, 2012
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I work in HR and I can tell you now, we get more people applying for low-paid work with degrees than we do other people.

University should go back to the way it was before in Britain.
The best went in and they come back out for the best jobs. People who are not exceptionally intelligent or are just not academic should go into trade. There's no shame in it. We all need plumbers and carpenters.
 

Aurora Firestorm

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Suki_ said:
What you talking about foo I went to school for electrical engineering, took three years. I had a job about six months before I even finished school. Because of my paid co-op my student loans were almost paid off before I graduated.

I also get a ton of benefits including medical and a company car. I did have to work a lot of overtime my first couple years though.

Except for of course the almost guaranteed job as soon as you graduate and the very comparable money.
Holy crap, you have a company car? I'm an electrical engineer. Where do *you* work, because I never got that kind of treatment. Also, total crap about the guaranteed job. I know several fellow MIT alums who can't find jobs in big engineering fields.

Anyway, people don't go into trades because America has an embarrassment over blue-collar work. Everyone thinks it's beneath them. Basically, we're vain. It's stupid.
 

ElPatron

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aba1 said:
A person going through for a apprenticeship for a plumbing job will make more money and find work way easier than any engineering jobs
There's hundreds if not thousands of plumbers where I live, while people who need engineers are always scouting people in my college. Also, if you're okay with living anywhere you'll get a lot more money in engineering.

Nothing against trades, people working on them are necessary, but let's just face it: I have many friends in the trades and the job market is shit. Some of them have been forced to hop around useless apprenticeships and courses without actually gaining enough experience or any advantage in the job market.

Haven't you heard? College degrees are the new highschool diploma.

xDarc said:
Another thing that I wonder why hardly anyone thinks is being a small business owner. Stick to what you know, make a plan, read up business, reasearch, get a loan and take a chance.
Because it's not for everyone. Business is all about experience. Experience is the worst teacher - it hands out the test before giving you any lecture.

And right now, with this economy, I think it's likely to have people not wanting to start their businesses because of the high chances of losing everything.

Let's not forget that unemployment is affecting young people. They are not the kind of people that should be getting loans and taking chances.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Trades/vocab built the country, how are those liberal arts degrees working out these days eh?

It would be nice if we started to tax sports and do a full K-collage/vocab academy system and get people to work but our political system is fubar and probably will take a full on collapse and or revolution to change it...
 
Mar 9, 2010
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Because there's a stigma to them that people consider them working class. A lot of people don't even know what class they're a part of and think they're middle making them think that a working class job is below them. On top of that there's the whole idea that you should get a job you love and I can't think of many people I know that dream of being a plumber.
 

The Abhorrent

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Owyn_Merrilin said:
Then people get to college and realize that "professionals" careers are for snobs who like to enforce codes of morals on other members of the "professional" career that have no bearing on the job, on ethics, or on the law. Professionals are those who profess to be better than everyone else. Tradesmen are men who trade stories about how ridiculous the professionals are.

If I sound bitter, it's because I went for a professional degree that involves a ridiculous code of morals, and I mean stupid shit like not being able to go to a bar without risking getting fired. Teachers: they're not allowed to be human.
You definitely got something of a skewed point of view there, and other professions (such as my own, engineering) are actually not quite as... stringent with the code of conduct. The issue with teachers is that there's a lot of paranoia these days, parents are extremely defensive about their children (or depending on location, neglectful and/or abusive; sad but true); there's also the matter of the same parents have differing views on what's being taught, which they can be against for the silliest of reasons. That being said, it's generally easier to cope with these issues if you understand why they are issues.

And to be perfectly honest, the tone of your post is decidedly... unprofessional. While it's understandable that everyone should be able to express their opinion, one of the most difficult parts of professional conduct is being able to do so while still remaining civil about; you can't smear or blindly criticize someone, you have to say why their words and/or actions are wrong. "Easier said than done" is a pretty large understatement, especially when something is really testing your patience.

Which brings me to my next point, the statement that professionals consider themselves than the common populace; and to put it bluntly, this arrogance is almost certainly true.... but justified. The classic phrase "With great power comes great responsibility", or the older variation of "Noblesse obligé" ("nobility obliges"), comes full force. "Professional conduct" means holding yourself to a higher standard than the common populace; you can't simply have the attitude of being superior to everyone else (in fact, you should probably do your best to avoid this pitfall as much as possible), you have to be better than everyone else. The reasons for this quite simple, and it's the same reason professions exist in the first place; professionals are there to do things right. Society doesn't want your average joe designing a bridge, doing open-heart surgery, or teaching children; society wants someone better to do it.

---

With that detour out of the way, onto the real topic - trades.

Trades are actually very valuable these days; and if you're willing to move to where all the major projects are happening (for example, the oilsands), they pay extremely well to boot. They're a bit rarer these days, with the big push towards mandatory education over the last few decades; this is actually one of the bigger reasons why they're so valuable and pay well, they're just that much more in demand.

Still, there are a few downsides to trades. One of the most prominent is that it's invariably tied to construction (or manufacturing); be it houses or industrial projects, they have to deal with all the issues that come with it. These are commonly long work hours (12-16 hour days) and shift work (ten days on the job, then four off, repeat), having to go to remote locations for extended periods, and sometimes even a temporary construction season (the off-season is better known as "winter"). Combine this with the matter that trades are not the best "self-starters" when it comes to work, and things become even more problematic. If the work you once had goes away (out-sourced to somewhere cheaper or simply no longer viable), your skills can become useless; you either have to move to somewhere else in order to continue using your tradeskill or find something else to do.

Anyhow, trades are still valuable. The problem is that they don't really lend themselves to having a sustainable lifestyle; long & irregular work hours may be the norm, which means the prospect of a "family life" isn't looking too good. Tradespeople are usually young adults for a good reason; they're what people do to get started after finishing high school, many move onto to other jobs & careers later in life.
 

xDarc

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Feb 19, 2009
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ElPatron said:
Let's not forget that unemployment is affecting young people. They are not the kind of people that should be getting loans and taking chances.
They're the perfect kind of people. If they don't succeed in business, they don't have a wife who will leave them, take the kids and half of anything that's left. They don't get discouraged from taking chances thinking about their family and their responsibilities; they have none. If they don't succeed, they can go move back in with mom and dad.

Besides, it seems these days you are taking as big a risk by taking on debt to go to college.

I've heard people complain many times here that all the businesses are owned by foreigners, but that's because they haven't been brainwashed into the line of thought where you go to school so you can get a job, because that's what worked 50 years ago. It's still a J O B at the end of the day.

How is it that everything following their dreams includes working for some place giving the best years of their life away?

The whole notion is a crock of shit. Be it trades or college, to aspire to work for someone else is a low expectation.
 

aba1

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Mar 18, 2010
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xDarc said:
ElPatron said:
Let's not forget that unemployment is affecting young people. They are not the kind of people that should be getting loans and taking chances.
They're the perfect kind of people. If they don't succeed in business, they don't have a wife who will leave them, take the kids and half of anything that's left. They don't get discouraged from taking chances thinking about their family and their responsibilities; they have none. If they don't succeed, they can go move back in with mom and dad.

Besides, it seems these days you are taking as big a risk by taking on debt to go to college.

I've heard people complain many times here that all the businesses are owned by foreigners, but that's because they haven't been brainwashed into the line of thought where you go to school so you can get a job, because that's what worked 50 years ago. It's still a J O B at the end of the day.

How is it that everything following their dreams includes working for some place giving the best years of their life away?

The whole notion is a crock of shit. Be it trades or college, to aspire to work for someone else is a low expectation.
Excluding that very last sentence if I had 2 beers I would give you one and we could clank mugs shouting cheers to logic. I heavily agree with you.
 

renegade7

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Feb 9, 2011
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I never understood it either. Sure, being a mechanic, electrician, or plumber may not be the most glamorous job, but if you are good at it you can make a lot of money.
 

General Twinkletoes

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Jan 24, 2011
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In Australia tradies can get 120K+ a year in the right job, it's insane. A profession you learn on the job can get you more money than something you have to spend 9 years learning. Most tradie professions will get you more than enough to live by, while people with expensive degrees sometimes struggle.
It's very odd :/
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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I haven't noticed people having a problem with "trades."

Only jobs that really seemed to be scoffed at are food service jobs. Fry cooks and bus boys and the like.
 

xDarc

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Feb 19, 2009
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aba1 said:
Excluding that very last sentence if I had 2 beers I would give you one and we could clank mugs shouting cheers to logic. I heavily agree with you.
Well, cheers then. *clank* *glug* *glug* *glug*
 

ElPatron

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xDarc said:
They're the perfect kind of people. If they don't succeed in business, they don't have a wife who will leave them, take the kids and half of anything that's left. They don't get discouraged from taking chances thinking about their family and their responsibilities; they have none. If they don't succeed, they can go move back in with mom and dad.
They're also the ones with trouble getting loans, they have no stability which means nobody trusts them, and most likely their losses will cause his parents to lose the house.

Despite what the government thinks, not everyone in my country is a natural born businessman with a "million dollar idea" who will just sink all their savings and save the nation with capitalism.