Why Are People Against Personal Accountabilty For Individuals Who Behave Badly?

[KissingSunlight]

This has been something that has been bothering me for a long time.

Couple years ago, I had a thread complaining about stupid people. There was a flood of people using twisted and tortured logic to justify how these stupid people I was talking about wasn't actually being stupid.

So, there is another thread right now, where a bunch of people are defending a guy who acted obnoxiously stupid. Which inspired me to ask this bigger question in that thread that everybody has ignored.

Why do so many people complain when someone acts obnoxious, rude, and/or criminal gets punished? Why are so many people against personal accountability for stupid jerks? They want companies, police, politicians, and even people who were protecting themselves and their property to be accountable. A lot of people just don't want to hold people who are committing criminal acts against companies, police, and people who were protecting themselves and their property accountable for their actions.

I honestly want to know. No judgement. I want to understand the logic and rationale of this behavior. Even though, I have a theory that this attitude is governed more about feelings and knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Catnip1024]

So, there is another thread right now, where a bunch of people are defending a guy who acted obnoxiously stupid. Which inspired me to ask this bigger question in that thread that everybody has ignored.

You're talking about the doctor who refused to be taken off a flight when he had patients to see at the destination? Some of the reaction is overblown, but you can't blame the individual for not wanting to leave.

Can I have the examples of the other occurrences, to see exactly what your issue is here?

 

[KissingSunlight]

So, there is another thread right now, where a bunch of people are defending a guy who acted obnoxiously stupid. Which inspired me to ask this bigger question in that thread that everybody has ignored.

You're talking about the doctor who refused to be taken off a flight when he had patients to see at the destination? Some of the reaction is overblown, but you can't blame the individual for not wanting to leave.

Can I have the examples of the other occurrences, to see exactly what your issue is here?

I can understand why the guy didn't want to leave. However, at some point, he should have acted like an emotionally mature adult and take their compensation. Maybe, get some documentation of the incident and sue them for the inconvenience. However, you don't act like a bratty little child and refuse to leave. Even when law enforcement is asking you politely to leave.

There are a lot of incidents I can mention. However, like this airplane incident, people tend to duck this bigger question about themselves in favor of hating on "The Man" i.e.: Companies, police, and people acting in self-defense.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

So, there is another thread right now, where a bunch of people are defending a guy who acted obnoxiously stupid.

You're referring to the doctor in the United Airlines story right?


It's debatable whether his actions can truly be considered "stupid". He purchased his ticket validly, was allowed onto the plane, had his stuff packed up with the full expectation of leaving. This is an expectation that United Airlines gave to him, if they were overbooked, they shouldn't have allowed too many people to get on the plane. It can be argued that United did the "stupid" thing in this case by not covering their own bullshit.

It's not like people are defending "Jackass" where you have actors performing idiotic stunts they know are risky. With case of the doctor, there's room for empathy. In a nutshell, he paid for a service, he should get to make use of it.

However, at some point, he should have acted like an emotionally mature adult and take their compensation. Maybe, get some documentation of the incident and sue them for the inconvenience. However, you don't act like a bratty little child and refuse to leave. Even when law enforcement is asking you politely to leave.

It's easy to say he "should have done this" or "he should have done that" if you watch the video, the man is clearly distressed, which makes rational thought a bit harder in the moment.

United is a company, yeah people working in companies make mistakes too, but that's why they have upper management and it's the job of those managers to find a solution that works for everyone. They've been around the block before, unlike this guy, who has probably never been booted from a plane.

 

[Catnip1024]

I can understand why the guy didn't want to leave. However, at some point, he should have acted like an emotionally mature adult and take their compensation. Maybe, get some documentation of the incident and sue them for the inconvenience. However, you don't act like a bratty little child and refuse to leave. Even when law enforcement is asking you politely to leave.

There are a lot of incidents I can mention. However, like this airplane incident, people tend to duck this bigger question about themselves in favor of hating on "The Man" i.e.: Companies, police, and people acting in self-defense.

I can't understand why, if the airline were aware of his occupation and that he was travelling on business, they were so determined he had to go. It puts other people at risk. Also, if he is a doctor, he is likely losing more money for the lost day than he would gain in the meager compensation.

I am all for personal accountability. But. If I buy something, and I do not get that thing, I have been wronged. Fuck legal smallprint. Fuck dubious business practices that shouldn't even be legal. Someone has cast the first stone, and I am fully entitled from a moral perspective to start burning shit. The guy was fairly restrained, to be honest.

 

[KissingSunlight]

So, there is another thread right now, where a bunch of people are defending a guy who acted obnoxiously stupid.

You're referring to the doctor in the United Airlines story right?


It's debatable whether his actions can truly be considered "stupid". He purchased his ticket validly, was allowed onto the plane, had his stuff packed up with the full expectation of leaving. This is an expectation that United Airlines gave to him, if they were overbooked, they shouldn't have allowed too many people to get on the plane. It can be argued that United did the "stupid" thing in this case by not covering their own bullshit.

It's not like people are defending "Jackass" where you have actors performing idiotic stunts they know are risky.

OK. First, I don't want this thread to be about The United Incident. There is already a thread for that.

Actually, a lot of people not only defend the show "Jackass". They, also, celebrate and praise that show. However, that is still not what I am talking about.

This is more about a criminal who gets shot breaking into a house. People criticize the person defending themselves and their property. Incidents where criminals attack police officers and resist arrest. The police officer have to use force to protect themselves and the bystanders around him. Really anybody who feel "oppressed", because they weren't allowed special privileges at a business. For example: They didn't get a room at a motel that had a "No Vacancy" sign on.

 

[Saelune]

Like when people blame Democrats for Trump? Or when people blame Democrats for Gorsuch? Or when people blame me for turning people anti-LGBT?

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

This is more about a criminal who gets shot breaking into a house. People criticize the person defending themselves and their property. Incidents where criminals attack police officers and resist arrest. The police officer have to use force to protect themselves and the bystanders around him. Really anybody who feel "oppressed", because they weren't allowed special privileges at a business. For example: They didn't get a room at a motel that had a "No Vacancy" sign on.

I think, in this case, you may be painting in broad strokes. I personally wouldn't defend a criminal for breaking into someone's house and getting shot by the homeowner or a person who feels entitled to a hotel room when previously told there were no vacancies.[footnote]which is not the same as a person who previously had a seat on a plane and then suddenly didn't.[/footnote]

 

[Saelune]

This is more about a criminal who gets shot breaking into a house. People criticize the person defending themselves and their property. Incidents where criminals attack police officers and resist arrest. The police officer have to use force to protect themselves and the bystanders around him. Really anybody who feel "oppressed", because they weren't allowed special privileges at a business. For example: They didn't get a room at a motel that had a "No Vacancy" sign on.

How about when a cop abuses their power to lethal degrees but people pretend that he wasnt?

 

[KissingSunlight]

This is more about a criminal who gets shot breaking into a house. People criticize the person defending themselves and their property. Incidents where criminals attack police officers and resist arrest. The police officer have to use force to protect themselves and the bystanders around him. Really anybody who feel "oppressed", because they weren't allowed special privileges at a business. For example: They didn't get a room at a motel that had a "No Vacancy" sign on.

I think, in this case, you may be painting in broad strokes. I personally wouldn't defend a criminal for breaking into someone's house and getting shot by the homeowner or a person who feels entitled to a hotel room when previously told there were no vacancies.[footnote]which is not the same as a person who previously had a seat on a plane and then suddenly didn't.[/footnote]

I agree with your footnote there. The thread I referenced before about complaining about stupid people came from watching people consistently banging on a motel door with that sign hanging on the door. They leave complaining how rude(Also, racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.) the desk clerk was, because he didn't rent them a room.

While people don't "defend" the criminal breaking into the house, a lot of people do complain about the homeowner using deadly force to protect himself and his property.

 

[KissingSunlight]

This is more about a criminal who gets shot breaking into a house. People criticize the person defending themselves and their property. Incidents where criminals attack police officers and resist arrest. The police officer have to use force to protect themselves and the bystanders around him. Really anybody who feel "oppressed", because they weren't allowed special privileges at a business. For example: They didn't get a room at a motel that had a "No Vacancy" sign on.

How about when a cop abuses their power to lethal degrees but people pretend that he wasnt?

Or maybe...Hear me out...The police officer did not abuse his power to use lethal force. It just people who are uncomfortable seeing someone getting shot or physical force used on another person. They assume that the police officer is using excessive force.

 

[Saelune]

This is more about a criminal who gets shot breaking into a house. People criticize the person defending themselves and their property. Incidents where criminals attack police officers and resist arrest. The police officer have to use force to protect themselves and the bystanders around him. Really anybody who feel "oppressed", because they weren't allowed special privileges at a business. For example: They didn't get a room at a motel that had a "No Vacancy" sign on.

How about when a cop abuses their power to lethal degrees but people pretend that he wasnt?

Or maybe...Hear me out...The police officer did not abuse his power to use lethal force. It just people who are uncomfortable seeing someone getting shot or physical force used on another person. They assume that the police officer is using excessive force.

Lets get this out of the way first. Its not an all or nothing. Sometimes a cop abuses their power, and gets away with it. Sometimes the perp acted in a way that they got what they deserved.

I dont think every black person wanted by the police or shot by cops is automatically a victim of racism by police, but there is a TON of abusive, violent, racist cops that are being let to do what they will because either people are so racist, or so unwilling to consider that maybe being a cop doesnt automatically make you a person who can do no wrong.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

While people don't "defend" the criminal breaking into the house, a lot of people do complain about the homeowner using deadly force to protect himself and his property.

That could be the guns getting in there. Somehow I don't imagine "Black Belt Knife-hands Burglar in the Jugular" to inspire the same reaction... there's going to be a reaction, but it won't be the same discussion that follows.

On that note, headlines are often written to inspire certain reactions and this is the internet.

 

[Parasondox]

Or when people blame me for turning people anti-LGBT?

They do? That's a stupid excuse by them. You are 1 LGBT individual. LGBT aren't hive minds... oh right. That's how the ignorant think. "If one black person is a criminal, they all are."

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Eh I always assumed it was because everyone is a special little snowflake who can do no wrong, and questioning their actions is basically a hate crime and probably sexists too, oh and a micro-aggression on top of a macro-aggression, which is different than macho aggression, which is something people are too because of toxic masculinity and why can't we all just admit you can be healthy at any weight?!?

Pretty soon I expect petitions to get teachers fired for correcting Math tests or pointing out when the Normandy landings were, without giving trigger warnings for people who don't like talking about things they don't know about.

 

[Silvanus]

Or maybe...Hear me out...The police officer did not abuse his power to use lethal force. It just people who are uncomfortable seeing someone getting shot or physical force used on another person. They assume that the police officer is using excessive force.

Which police officer are you talking about?

Saelune refers to "when" it happens, clearly referring specifically to cases in which it does happen, without reference to any one specific incident. But you seem to be referring to a single specific incident, and disputing that it fits that description.

 

[KissingSunlight]

Lets get this out of the way first. Its not an all or nothing. Sometimes a cop abuses their power, and gets away with it. Sometimes the perp acted in a way that they got what they deserved.

I dont think every black person wanted by the police or shot by cops is automatically a victim of racism by police, but there is a TON of abusive, violent, racist cops that are being let to do what they will because either people are so racist, or so unwilling to consider that maybe being a cop doesnt automatically make you a person who can do no wrong.

If you stopped at the first paragraph, we would have been in perfect agreement. That "TON" comment definitely needs citation. It is clever to use a vague hyperbole like "TON" to over-emphasize your point. That way you can link to a couple of examples and say, "There! I proved there is a 'TON' of racist police officers." I am not unwilling to think that a cop can abuse their power. I have been a victim of police harassment. It's not fun to say the least. However, I am willing to give a benefit of the doubt to the police officer before I will give it to the criminal.

 

[Saelune]

Lets get this out of the way first. Its not an all or nothing. Sometimes a cop abuses their power, and gets away with it. Sometimes the perp acted in a way that they got what they deserved.

I dont think every black person wanted by the police or shot by cops is automatically a victim of racism by police, but there is a TON of abusive, violent, racist cops that are being let to do what they will because either people are so racist, or so unwilling to consider that maybe being a cop doesnt automatically make you a person who can do no wrong.

If you stopped at the first paragraph, we would have been in perfect agreement. That "TON" comment definitely needs citation. It is clever to use a vague hyperbole like "TON" to over-emphasize your point. That way you can link to a couple of examples and say, "There! I proved there is a 'TON' of racist police officers." I am not unwilling to think that a cop can abuse their power. I have been a victim of police harassment. It's not fun to say the least. However, I am willing to give a benefit of the doubt to the police officer before I will give it to the criminal.

So I have to ask...why are you against personal accountability for individuals who behave badly? Cops are people too...and people arent perfect. They are prone to biases, and flawed morals and flawed judgement.

Cops should know better, its their job.

 

[KissingSunlight]

Or maybe...Hear me out...The police officer did not abuse his power to use lethal force. It just people who are uncomfortable seeing someone getting shot or physical force used on another person. They assume that the police officer is using excessive force.

Which police officer are you talking about?

Saelune refers to "when" it happens, clearly referring specifically to cases in which it does happen, without reference to any one specific incident. But you seem to be referring to a single specific incident, and disputing that it fits that description.

No one defends police brutality when it's proven that it happened. However, a lot of people do quickly jump to the conclusion that it is police brutality before it's proven. There is a push-back against that, because people are innocent until proven guilty.

 

[KissingSunlight]

Lets get this out of the way first. Its not an all or nothing. Sometimes a cop abuses their power, and gets away with it. Sometimes the perp acted in a way that they got what they deserved.

I dont think every black person wanted by the police or shot by cops is automatically a victim of racism by police, but there is a TON of abusive, violent, racist cops that are being let to do what they will because either people are so racist, or so unwilling to consider that maybe being a cop doesnt automatically make you a person who can do no wrong.

If you stopped at the first paragraph, we would have been in perfect agreement. That "TON" comment definitely needs citation. It is clever to use a vague hyperbole like "TON" to over-emphasize your point. That way you can link to a couple of examples and say, "There! I proved there is a 'TON' of racist police officers." I am not unwilling to think that a cop can abuse their power. I have been a victim of police harassment. It's not fun to say the least. However, I am willing to give a benefit of the doubt to the police officer before I will give it to the criminal.

So I have to ask...why are you against personal accountability for individuals who behave badly? Cops are people too...and people arent perfect. They are prone to biases, and flawed morals and flawed judgement.

Cops should know better, its their job.

I am for accountability for police officers who abused their power. Like I said in a previous post, it needs to be proven first. I am not so quick to assume that the police officer is wrong. Unlike a lot of people who quickly defends criminals and other people who behaves that the rules don't apply to them.