Why are people so against games in the US being regulated

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Smooth Operator

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Oct 5, 2010
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Ever heard of freedom of speech? Might want to look up that odd little concept.

In a democracy your government should not censor anything, only you should.
 

RatRace123

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Dec 1, 2009
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The regulation would outlaw M and even some T rated games on the ground of their content, essentially treating them like pornography.
It would basically ensure that the only games to get a pass would be child appropriate games.

This would doom the majority of gaming to become what we're trying to prove we aren't, children's toys. It would have a noticeable effect, the US makes up a fairly large part of the gaming market. Child appropriate games would be more accessible, face less restriction and therefore be more profitable.

We'd lose a lot of potential for engaging, adult storylines.

And the fact that books, movies and TV don't come under this type of scrutiny... anymore, was a big insult. Saying that games were somehow less of an appropriate medium than any of those.

Good thing that bill didn't pass.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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Can you spell or are you just lazy?

OT: You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. You seem to think the regulations proposed in America won't let minors buy games rated unsuitable for them unless consent is by a parent (or you misunderstand the law in your own country, but we'll assume the best case scenario). America and pretty much every Western nation already has these regulations (not that they're ever given any notice in most places). The proposed regulations would outright ban the sale of M rated (the equivalent of 16+ and over here, probably the same with you) to anyone underage, classing something as harmless as Call of Duty as if it were as dangerous as alcohol, cigarettes and guns. If such a law were to pass it would result in numerous other states and nations introducing such nonsense and would probably lead to even more radical regulations being brought in. So yeah, it's not a great idea.
 

Seventh Actuality

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Apr 23, 2010
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b3nn3tt said:
I assume this is talking about regulating the sales of games based on the age rating? If so, then I agree, I don't really see why it would be so terrible. In the UK it's illegal to sell games and films to anyone under the age specified on the box, and I'm not aware of any huge negative consequences of this.
The key part is the "games and films", not just games. Most legislation in this direction in the US seems to be aimed purely at regulating games, especially since a lot of its proponents are outright saying that interactive media should be treated differently.

So yeah...this probably wouldn't be a bad thing if it wasn't aimed only at video games. And in the US, it genuinely is a slippery slope, since many of the people behind the California shenanigans would pretty obviously discriminate against games further if they could. The "setting a precedent for treating games differently" part is a much bigger deal than the "making selling adult games to kids illegal" part; most people could probably see the latter as reasonable if it came without so much dangerous baggage.
 

Fishdog52

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Apr 18, 2011
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Well, for one, we're a country founded on not regulating things. There's that. Responsibility of the consumers and whatnot.

Second, what makes a game childish? I'd say that simplistic plot would be one of the main points. Bad guy kidnaps princess, hero rescues her. With mature rated games, usually the plot revolves around obscene amounts of sex and violence with little character development. Many people develop a conceptualization that if people think badly of what they themselves find entertaining that they therefore now think less of the person who indulges in these media.

Look at other forms of media where simplistic plot draws a greater audience than deep philosophical ones. People thrive off of the cruel criticisms of Simon, or raw violence of "professional" wrestling, or even the blunt insults of Dr. House. Cartoons are perhaps the epitome of this, with more volume of straight-forward violence (DBZ, any superhero cartoon) or slapstick humor. (All the old cartoons everybody has such fond memories of.) Even though they are more successful largely, it is seemingly much harder to put out an entertaining and more intelligent programs, such as Planet Earth and Seinfeld, or a cartoon which teaches morals, like Dr. Seuss. Twilight books outsell several classical philosophy works combined. People are on the whole simple and easily amused, yet fancy themselves sophisticated.

Finally, I would say that art direction often downplays the maturity factor of games. How many of them spend more effort pandering to male genitals than showing true figures of humans? It is rare for a Portal to come along that stars a female character without utilizing jiggle physics.

Games will remain largely immature until the maturity level of the audience changes. Regulations will not really effect this without sinking a large portion of the industry.
 

KaiusCormere

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bahumat42 said:
Mr.K. said:
Ever heard of freedom of speech? Might want to look up that odd little concept.

In a democracy your government should not censor anything, only you should.
pfft the governments there to serve our best interests. If our best interests include manhunt 2 not being released here (at least not properly) then big whoop, that thing was a waste of time anyway. These things can be controlled fairly and i have yet to see one bad decision (at least on games) in this regard from `the relevant agencies (i live in the uk for reference).

Slippery slope argument all you want but i have been living with i my whole life and not missed any real releases due to the system.
I don't know about you, I don't TRUST the government to have the slightest idea what anyone's best interests are. Every interaction I've ever had with government offices oozes incompetence of the highest degree.
 

Smooth Operator

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bahumat42 said:
pfft the governments there to serve our best interests. If our best interests include manhunt 2 not being released here (at least not properly) then big whoop, that thing was a waste of time anyway. These things can be controlled fairly and i have yet to see one bad decision (at least on games) in this regard from `the relevant agencies (i live in the uk for reference).

Slippery slope argument all you want but i have been living with i my whole life and not missed any real releases due to the system.
It's funny, the Chinese say the same thing.
The government is there to serve it's best interests, it is the peoples job to keep them in line.

So at what point would you be concerned with loosing your freedom?
 

b3nn3tt

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May 11, 2010
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Seventh Actuality said:
b3nn3tt said:
I assume this is talking about regulating the sales of games based on the age rating? If so, then I agree, I don't really see why it would be so terrible. In the UK it's illegal to sell games and films to anyone under the age specified on the box, and I'm not aware of any huge negative consequences of this.
The key part is the "games and films", not just games. Most legislation in this direction in the US seems to be aimed purely at regulating games, especially since a lot of its proponents are outright saying that interactive media should be treated differently.

So yeah...this probably wouldn't be a bad thing if it wasn't aimed only at video games. And in the US, it genuinely is a slippery slope, since many of the people behind the California shenanigans would pretty obviously discriminate against games further if they could. The "setting a precedent for treating games differently" part is a much bigger deal than the "making selling adult games to kids illegal" part; most people could probably see the latter as reasonable if it came without so much dangerous baggage.
Well, that makes sense. If it was the regulation of both then I can't see the problem, but if it would mean setting a precedent of games being treated differently then yes, that is obviously a problem. I suppose it might also become the case that the government assigned its own advisory board, and got rid of the ESRB ratings. Which obviously then leaves the door wide open to limit what can be put into games.
 

RoonMian

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I think this is mainly a cultural thing why some (mostly Europeans) just don't get why Americans rejoiced like that over the decision of the supreme court on games regulations for example.

My view on this is as well heavily influenced by my culture. I'm German. There is a famous quote from the formative years of the first German democracy (the one that so tragically failed). It was said by Rosa Luxemburg and it went: "Freiheit ist die Freiheit des anderen." Translated it goes something like "Your freedom is the freedom of your next man" meaning that your freedom stops where the freedom of another person begins. It means that you are free to do and say anything as long as you don't insult or hurt another person or lie. While the USA may share that opinion in principle it takes different routes in the USA and Europe. In the USA people apply more value to individual liberties and Germany (and in my experience the rest of Europe as well) tries to uphold something like a civil society. France for example has not only "Liberté" in its national motto but also "Fraternité".

That is in my opinion the big cultural and sociologic difference between the USA and most of western Europe.

How does that relate to regulating videogames? I hope everyone agrees that children do not need to play games with violent content and watch violent movies and (still hoping) most of us agree that exposing young children to running over hookers and zombies eating your brains isn't healthy for their development no matter if it's in game form or movie form and I'd even include literature in that. Same goes for sexually explicit content. You Americans now say that is the responsibility of the parents and I agree. Parents should always have a watchful eye over the media their children are consuming. But that is an ideal. What if the parents don't give a fuck? That happens in the USA. That happens in Europe. Now Americans say: "It's their responsibility, none of my business, I'm not going to interfere in how other people raise their children." Europeans say: "Well, if the parents don't care then somebody else has to protect children from media that is not appropriate for their age and may be harmful for their development. And there is noone else but law and regulation to do that." In other words, Americans stick to holding high their individual freedom (including individual responsibility) while Europeans now tend to limit their own freedom to that point where it starts hurting other people and in this case one of the most vulnerable groups in our society to begin with. Americans insist that games are an art as movies and since movies aren't regulated games shouldn't be either. Europeans regulate movies AND games. To us that is not abolishing freedom of speech or censorship.

So basically, that's why you Brits don't get the Americans and vice versa.

Wrapping up I want to say that I know that there are some generalizations in there but I am reflecting my experience and what I have seen so far in this discussion. It's all just my opinion. If you disagree... Well, that's why it's called a discussion forum.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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Not entirely sure what you're saying, but there already IS a regulatory body over here in N. America; it's called the Entertainment Software Review Board or ESRB.
 

Smooth Operator

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bahumat42 said:
again i state
i haven't lost any freedom, like at all?
not being able to play manhunt is fine by me. Their not controlling every facet of my life, their saying this has no redeeming value and no person should enjoy it, so ban it.

So excuse me that i dont care that some murdering phsycopath didn't get his jollies on manhunt too.

You enjoy being over there yelling at "the man" i'll be over here enjoying life.
The average Chinese citizen will also never say they lost any freedoms, small world and all that.
But hey ignorance is bliss.
 

StriderShinryu

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Dec 8, 2009
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b3nn3tt said:
Could have sworn that someone on here posted something a while ago that showed that the ESRB ratings were fairly well-enforced. Oh well. If they're not, then I'd say that's a case for making it the law that they should be.

Fair enough, I thought it was actually the law that kids couldn't go by themselves. Thanks for clearing that one up for me.
ESRB rating enforcement has been tested and has been shown to be in place over 80% of the time. It's not perfect, but that number is reportedly far beyond the %age of enforcement in any other medium with similar regulations (movies, music, etc.). I would also imagine that already high number being much higher in dedicated game stores since they actually know what they are doing as opposed to someone forced into working the electronics department till at Wal-Mart.
 

Netrigan

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Sep 29, 2010
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bahumat42 said:
Mr.K. said:
Ever heard of freedom of speech? Might want to look up that odd little concept.

In a democracy your government should not censor anything, only you should.
pfft the governments there to serve our best interests. If our best interests include manhunt 2 not being released here (at least not properly) then big whoop, that thing was a waste of time anyway. These things can be controlled fairly and i have yet to see one bad decision (at least on games) in this regard from `the relevant agencies (i live in the uk for reference).

Slippery slope argument all you want but i have been living with i my whole life and not missed any real releases due to the system.
Manhunter 2 didn't get censored by the government, it got an Adult Only rating which meant it would get limited release, so they did what they had to get an M rating. Same thing happens with movies all the times, an NC-17 rating is economic suicide as most theater chains won't play it and the major video rental franchises wouldn't carry it, so they cut to get an R.

There's nothing legally stopping an uncensored version of Manhunter 2, it's just economics.
 

Netrigan

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Sep 29, 2010
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bahumat42 said:
Netrigan said:
bahumat42 said:
Mr.K. said:
Ever heard of freedom of speech? Might want to look up that odd little concept.

In a democracy your government should not censor anything, only you should.
pfft the governments there to serve our best interests. If our best interests include manhunt 2 not being released here (at least not properly) then big whoop, that thing was a waste of time anyway. These things can be controlled fairly and i have yet to see one bad decision (at least on games) in this regard from `the relevant agencies (i live in the uk for reference).

Slippery slope argument all you want but i have been living with i my whole life and not missed any real releases due to the system.
Manhunter 2 didn't get censored by the government, it got an Adult Only rating which meant it would get limited release, so they did what they had to get an M rating. Same thing happens with movies all the times, an NC-17 rating is economic suicide as most theater chains won't play it and the major video rental franchises wouldn't carry it, so they cut to get an R.

There's nothing legally stopping an uncensored version of Manhunter 2, it's just economics.
actually the uncensored version was unrated by the bbfc meaning it was unable to be distributed within uk stores.

I remember because one of my (lets say undesirable) colleagues wouldn't shut up about it.
I was talking U.S. It's one of the few games that got an Adult Only rating, which is probably the only reason it got censored.