Why Are The Generation 1 Fans the Biggest Complainers About Each New Pokemon Generation?

[Sutter Cane]

Further, with generation one, there was the set of rules you had to adhere to (Electricity beats Water, Water beats Fire, etc.) There IS that set of rules still of course, but it had grown and expanded to include different Pokemon types and for a lot of generation One fans, that killed the fun because, in our minds, they weren't just altering the rules, but throwing them all out and making us have to learn something else.

So, without going on forever, it is essentially the usual rote of "I was here first, how dare you change things on me!" kind of mentality.

The thing is though that, and this coming from someone with a ton of nostalgia for pokemon blue and yellow, those rules in gen 1 sucked. Sure Psychic types were weak to both bug and ghost, but there were no good bug type moves, and all of the ghosts were part poison which psychic types are strong against. On top of that, special attack and special defense being a single stat doesn't make much sense, and the fact that special and physical attacks were tied to entire types of moves rather than to individual moves meant that there were pokemon that couldn't make effective use of their type.

 

[BlindTom]

AN EVIL SOUL INCARNATE,
FROZEN LIKE A WEEPING STONE.
SINEWY IN DARKNESS,
UNTOUCHED MARBLE BURNING COLD.

ZUBAT KNOWS SURRENDER,
HEARS YOUR FAINT RESIGN.
ZUBAT'S IMMORTAL SPLENDOR,
BORN AHEAD OF TIME.

AWASH IN YOUR BURNING TOWN,
ASH WILL BE YOUR ONLY CROWN.
ZUBAT COMES IN DIVING FORM,
COMETS SQUEAL AND HEAVENS MOURN.

THUNDER ECHOES THROUGH YOUR EARS,
YOUR LIFE IS ON FIRE, BURNING, SEARED.
EYES CAST DOWN BEREFT OF HOPE,
ZUBAT THE NOOSE, THE LEATHER WINGED ROPE.

BLESSED BE THE BURNING CHURCH,
ZUBAT LAUGHS WITH ALL HIS MIRTH.
VEX THE CROSS AND HAIL THE WING,
ZUBAT HEARS YOUR PRAYERS,
FOR ZUBAT YOU WILL SING

 

[Sheen Lantern]

Snip.

They are still weirder then those, but I never said Gen 1 had no weird Pokemon.

Elaborate on why a living fridge is weider than animate sentient living shit.

 

[Ratties]

Have to say that most people that complain about the newer gens are worth ignoring. Of all the games they have actually played, it usually ends at the 3rd gen. You know it's like trying to tell somebody that a movie is really good, yet they have only watched the first 5 minutes and thinks it sucks. Not going to change these peoples minds. Kind of don't want to anyways. Have only gotten better in my opinion. Kept the older Pokemon around. Really don't see the problem. Of course all the people bitching and complaining because Pokemon are based on objects, well why the hell not. Where was written in the Pokemon handbook, that a Pokemon can't be based off a fridge, or a lamp, ect.

 

[suntt123]

Snip.

They are still weirder then those, but I never said Gen 1 had no weird Pokemon.

Elaborate on why a living fridge is weider than animate sentient living shit.

Yeah, it's a really weird thing to complain about especially since it's not even really a fridge. It's a ghost that possessed an inanimate object, like a poltergeist. It can also posses a lawn mower, a microwave, a washing machine or an electric fan. That's awesome!

Also Gen V seems to have gone over most of the old designs and improved most of them (IMO)

Gigalith, Conkeldurr, Haxorus, Braviary, Seismitoad are more interesting to see than
Golem, Machamp, Dragonite, Fearow and Poliwrath.

That said this is kind of a pointless argument, from either side seeing as, "coolness" or "weirdness" is all a matter of opinion.

Still, I find it weird that nobody in favor of Gen I ever seems to bring up Jynx or Mr.Mime yet Gothitelle and Beheeyem get so much flak.

 

[freaper]

I'm a Gen 1 player. I played the first three games a ton (Red/Blue/Yellow), but kinda left Gen 2 to the side (still bought them all, though). My favourite generation has to be Gen 3. Unfortunately I lost/got stolen my Ruby cartridge and GBA SP. Not big into it these days, but B&W seemed to have some cool designs, namely the bugs looked better than in the other generations.

 

[spartan231490]

This is just something that has really been bothering me lately, and I need to get it off my chest.

I'm a big fan of Pokemon. Been so since the original Gold and Silver games.
I understand that some Pokemon fans simply grow out of Pokemon, or leave the franchise because they want something more serious RPG sense. Or perhaps they simply got tired of the same old plot.
Every single new generation that comes out, there is usually an ungodly amount of complaining about how "This gen sucks." "These Pokemon are unoriginal (because the likes of Ponyta are the pinnacle of creativity)", and "Pokemon just became crap after the original 151"

Now I'm not saying one has to like every single generation that comes out. I found that Generation 4 was my least favorite, while Generation 5 (Which got the most hate for some reason) was my absolute favorite. However a lot of these dissenters aren't people who have been playing the games on a regular basis. Many of them just happen to be the original 151 players, who haven't touched a Pokemon game since the year 2000.
Like, I just don't understand...why continue to lurk on the Pokemon forums for practically 13 years just so you can call Pokemon crap? Like we get it. You like your Charizards, Gengars, and Zubats. Whenever someone states they like the later generations- whether it be 3 or 5- if it happens to be a kid they will try to explain to them why that gen sucks and 151 are great. If it's someone in the same age group as me (18+) they will ask if there is something wrong with me.

Again, this isn't everyone who is a fan of the original 151 Pokemon.
Yet there is a reason, the parody label "Genwunners" is coined now.


And oddly enough, there isn't nearly a lot of complaining about the new generation so far as opposed to Generation 5

What are your thoughts.

Is it really that difficult to grasp? If you liked something, and then each year they changed it a little more and a little more, wouldn't it get farther and farther from the original and have less and less in common with the thing you like, causing more and more dislike? It's perfectly logical.

I'm a gen 2 fan, I don't like any of the gens after that because they didn't continue the tradition of letting you go back to previous areas, made for less playable content. and adding an insane number of pokemon doesn't make up for that, especially since I'm not a collector type of player anyway.

 

[IronMit]

i dont know where you get your info about what gen 1 players still play or dont, but w/e. we're probably the biggest complainers because we have the largest pokedex full of samey, repetitive pointlessness. now keep in mind it wasnt until black & white that i was well and truly bored of the series, but its done the same thing with the same number of towns and same gyms, same caves and seas full of pretty much the same swarm of the same kinds of pokemon, all leading up to the fight with the same elite four and then off to capture the same 3 legendaries and the rest of the same 151 monsters you got last gen. its really quite amazing how they managed to keep me interested in what was basically the same game for so long, so i have no ill will, but come on... whats the damn point anymore? i spent more time than i ever shouldve catching the original 151, and all the new games seem to do is complicate that further with pokemon you can only get from one-day events in japan. ive no interest in multiplayer and the already easy single player fights have just gotten easier and easier.

gold was my favorite when i was a kid, probably because it felt like an actual sequel with new pokemon types and new ways to get legendaries that sadly became a boring routine in later gens, and an awesome twist fight with kanto's champion. after that the games did less and less to stand out, just rehashing the same conventions with hilarious detail (you always pick a water,fire,or grass, there is always a tree to cut blocking your way, there is always a cave full of some annoying pokemon right after, there is always a bike road...) part of that is just the reality that inventing another 151 creatures every gen is going to blur together no matter how creative you are, but most of it is just a stubborn refusal to change ANYTHING at all of the tried and true formula. the series needs to stop making 151 mutant bastard children of pikachu every gen and start working a different structure, and some major changes to the battle system couldnt hurt either.

THIS!
For a game where evolution is such a big feature the game has barely evolved. It's a victim of it's own success. It's like COD, add maps, guns and a few features and people buy it. They just add more bloat like the 'cinema' centre and fashion show rubbish.

I don't really have a problem with new pokemon. But the same tree, rock barriers has become stale and also much much easier. Some of the puzzles in yellow and gold/silver were actually challenging. Now you won't be stuck in a puzzle for more then 2 minutes.

Also when your path was blocked there was always a creative story behind it. In black/white 1-2, some guy is simply in your way...and you have no way to realise what you need to do....you will just randomly progress in a different area a bit further and then that other path would become 'unblocked'.

in black2 the range of good pokemon available from early to mid game was terrible. not including the starters, I caught growlith. I didn't want lucario because I was bored of him and that would be 2 pokemon susceptible to ground attacks. Only other option a crap aerodactyl knock off and a ground-dragon. and an evee option 3-4 badges in-but i'm so bored of them. Any other good pokemon would require 6 gym badges. All the really cool ones are post league. The playthrough really didn't feel unique b'cos I looked over at my brother and he had the exact same set up

yellow, gold/silver, diamond were strong. ruby/saphire was ok. black/white/black2 were weak

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Snip.

They are still weirder then those, but I never said Gen 1 had no weird Pokemon.

Elaborate on why a living fridge is weider than animate sentient living shit.

Have I offended you or something? It comes across more as (and this is just my opinion) as lazy design, Muk was first gen. The ideas were at least fresh, yes he's not the most creative, but he's made of all kinds of bacteria and makes sense in some way that he could come alive. But we have an ice Cream, washing Machine, lawn mower, fridge as Pokemon now, at least the metal ones like voltor were unique creations to the game (they looked like living Pokeballs) and not just taking an appliance at home and giving it eyes or something

As far as the robotic Pokemon go, including Voltorb and co, I always wondered how they came to be. It may have been explained in later games, but it's been years and the last game I played was Silver, after that I sorta lost interest.

Yeah I think a lot of left after gold and silver. Nothing changes in each iteration and the games basically reset all the players progress to zero upon each update. If it didn't I'd still be playing with my level 100s and my A-Team from the original Red version. To be fair the same thing has happened with other games as well: Call of Duty, Halo, Sports games, pretty much anything that keeps updating itself, but never changes much.

I'm told they change things here and there, but I just grew out of those games is all. I still think the concept is cool and I'm glad it's still around, not everything needs to be a gritty game and games like this are fun to a lot of people. Just not to me anymore.

 

[Rad Party God]

I started with Gen 1 (specifically, the Yellow version) and then I absolutely loved Gen 2 (I still play HeartGold from time to time on my NDS), because they upped the ante with the roster design, wich is still my favorite, I still look at the original and a resounding "meh" comes out.

Granted, I didn't follow Pokémon after Gen 2, so I missed the GBA and NDS iterations (I only got HeartGold due to those lovely nostalgia googles), I played the Black version on a friend's NDS and while I liked it, I didn't rushed to the nearest store to buy it.

I like the design of each new Gen, of course I'm more biased towards Gen 2, but I'm not bothered by each new Gen's design.

 

[Scott Rothman]

I've been playing Pokemon since the first generation. Anyone who says that they should have stayed with the original 151 either still doesn't play, never played, or doesn't understand how to build a franchise. There is no way the series could still be as fun and exciting as it is without the introduction of new pokemon.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

*Snip of the Colossus*

Now for the second part of your reply

If you feel that Generation 2 is the best than fine by me. Why should I care? I wasn't having a competition about which generation was the best or the worst.
If you grew out of those games, then fine. That's logical. I even addressed that in my original post. People grow up and lose interest in childhood games. I have no problem with that. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

I think it's universally agreed upon that the anime after Johto is garbage.
I never collected the Pokemon cards, and I don't think I've ever meet anyone outside the internet that actually knew how to play the card game. I personally only collect them for the art.

I'll get back to you on the rest of your post once I'm actually awake (WHY AM I STILL UP???). However, I need to clear up this misunderstanding now.

The second part of my post was in no way a part of my argument or indeed an argument of any kind. I was simply stating my own personal opinion of Pokemon as well as my own history with it, as it seems to be the only thing that could actually resemble discussion value for this topic. I was not trying to convince you or anyone of anything with that part of my post.

Captcha: "until tomorrow" Psychic Captcha strikes again!

 

[Sheen Lantern]

Muk was first gen. The ideas were at least fresh, yes he's not the most creative, but he's made of all kinds of bacteria and makes sense in some way that he could come alive. But we have an ice Cream, washing Machine, lawn mower, fridge as Pokemon now, at least the metal ones like voltor were unique creations to the game (they looked like living Pokeballs) and not just taking an appliance at home and giving it eyes or something

What, and there's no reason as to why the household appliances had come alive?

Don't complain about something you obviously know nothing about, because there is a very detailed story as to while household appliances are becoming animate [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Rotom_(Pok%C3%A9mon)]

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Muk was first gen. The ideas were at least fresh, yes he's not the most creative, but he's made of all kinds of bacteria and makes sense in some way that he could come alive. But we have an ice Cream, washing Machine, lawn mower, fridge as Pokemon now, at least the metal ones like voltor were unique creations to the game (they looked like living Pokeballs) and not just taking an appliance at home and giving it eyes or something

What, and there's no reason as to why the household appliances had come alive?

Don't complain about something you obviously know nothing about, because there is a very detailed story as to while household appliances are becoming animate [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Rotom_(Pok%C3%A9mon)]

I never complained. Also, how was I meant to know any of that when I haven't played the further ones. I never claimed to know anything about them, I just said I thought they were strange. No need to get all angry about it.

I'm going to cut you some slack here, you're obviously new and that's cool and all. But getting aggressive like you seem to be, won't help convince anyone you're talking to about stuff. Be polite and think about what you post, make claims of people not knowing as much as you etc and you could get in trouble.

 

[ATRAYA]

While I think Pokemon has just become a huge cash cow that preys on the young (no offense), and I was only ever interested in the original 151 back when I was lad, I also don't go around to forums and the like to express my "hatred" of the newer generations. I just think they are unimaginative and... well, just designed to be the same thing over and over again, with slight changes every game so people come back for more. In some ways, I think Pokemon is WORSE than Call of Duty for this. Because they release TWO versions of every game, each with their tiny, unique things that breeds competitive debate amongst players, thus keeping Pokemon on the minds of those who play them and forcing them to entrench their beliefs of which game is superior... so they'll be sure to buy the next one. It was a clever marketing ploy... back in the '90s; now it's as transparent as can be and makes me a little bit angry.

Granted, "Ponyta" may not have been too creative, but most of the original 151 was very much so. They were creepy or cute, bad-ass or timid, and each was incredibly unique. We all had our favorite Pokemon (Squirtle for the win, by the win), that may or may not have been based on something in the real world, but was equally worthwhile and always had a reason for being number one in somebody's heart. The world and its lore just sucked you right in, making you actually WANT to watch the show, and trade the cards. Now every Pokemon is just some random object taken from the room the art team is currently in, given a name that plays on the name of said object but is kooky and "fun", and is given... fins. Or a tail. Or something that looks kind of... like... *snore*.

HOWEVER, when I saw the gameplay of the new 3D version (not where it pops out of the screen like a gimmick, but where everything is actually rendered in 3D) I was stunned! "Pokemon is actually trying something NEW!? NO WAY!" That actually piqued my interest, I have to say, even if it was the stale cartoons that are the "new Pokemon". If they had done that as, say, a remake of the old RED and BLUE games, but it's all in 3D with new mechanics/options/quests/etcetera, I probably would have bought it. Yeah, it's a cash cow in the shape of nostalgia but it was something FRESH. Not just a case of "Here's a thousand new Pokemon we thought up one drunken night! Money, please!"

And with that rant, I have now checked myself into a retirement home.
Nurse! Where's mah pills!

 

[Tarcolt]

I think there may be a bit of a defensive going on here. I started on the 1st gen, and I have to admit up until about the 4th I was good, but then the original 150 started getting... pushed aside. Now Don't get me wrong, progress and change and what not, but there is a different balance now and the originals and even 2nd gen are falling behind due to being almost a different game, perhaps a revamp of stats is in order(no evolving doesn't count)

As to the hate. Nostalgia plays a part, but there is a weird effect that the newer gens have, it like they.. don't quite fit, and I'm not sure why, they look really cool, Samurott, Carracosta, Chandelure, Braviery, Luxray, Gallade, Lucario... They all look good, but they still aren't quite right.

 

[Dryk]

As to the hate. Nostalgia plays a part, but there is a weird effect that the newer gens have, it like they.. don't quite fit, and I'm not sure why, they look really cool, Samurott, Carracosta, Chandelure, Braviery, Luxray, Gallade, Lucario... They all look good, but they still aren't quite right.

It's because the art-style has changed completely over time, in my opinion not for the better. There are still a lot of interesting Pokemon but I feel many of them would look better in a different style. Personally I'm sick of them outright replacing things. Generation 2 took what came before it and expanded on it, 2 regions, new and old Pokemon coexisting and not trying to supplant each other. It was a much better design philosophy than what they have now.

 

[Dragonbums]

I think there may be a bit of a defensive going on here. I started on the 1st gen, and I have to admit up until about the 4th I was good, but then the original 150 started getting... pushed aside. Now Don't get me wrong, progress and change and what not, but there is a different balance now and the originals and even 2nd gen are falling behind due to being almost a different game, perhaps a revamp of stats is in order(no evolving doesn't count)

As to the hate. Nostalgia plays a part, but there is a weird effect that the newer gens have, it like they.. don't quite fit, and I'm not sure why, they look really cool, Samurott, Carracosta, Chandelure, Braviery, Luxray, Gallade, Lucario... They all look good, but they still aren't quite right.

The dreamworld in Generation 5 made the first 3 generations relevant again.
I can assure you that I never hated battling Politoad and Ninetails ever in my entire life.

 

[Dragonbums]

As to the hate. Nostalgia plays a part, but there is a weird effect that the newer gens have, it like they.. don't quite fit, and I'm not sure why, they look really cool, Samurott, Carracosta, Chandelure, Braviery, Luxray, Gallade, Lucario... They all look good, but they still aren't quite right.

It's because the art-style has changed completely over time, in my opinion not for the better. There are still a lot of interesting Pokemon but I feel many of them would look better in a different style. Personally I'm sick of them outright replacing things. Generation 2 took what came before it and expanded on it, 2 regions, new and old Pokemon coexisting and not trying to supplant each other. It was a much better design philosophy than what they have now.

In terms of art style, every artist grows and changes. Ken Sugimori is no different. As an artist myself I would be a bit worried if he never developed his art style over the years.
On that note the first two generations were completely of his own doing. At around Ruby and Sapphire he hired a team of Pokemon designers that help him create Pokemon.
However at the end of the day he is the one that decides which ones are approved, which ones need to go back to the drawing board, and which ones can stay on the drawing board.

 

[Toxic Sniper]

To all those disparaging Trubbish and Garbodor: Please read this wonderful defense. [http://bogleech.com/pokemon/trash.html]